Severlin says daily gold rolls "fiscally" Irresponsible

[Dandonk]

VIP is unlimited access expansions excluded

And rebranded Updates also excluded - "mini-expansions". These days it's nearly half the quests each year that are not free to VIPs.

[Malveaux]

He's not wrong. I have an enormous stack of 200% slayer pots and Excellent and Greater XP potions from the gold rolls. I would assume those used to be prime store items. I won't need to buy any from the store for two years.

But, you can't just do nothing for VIPs either. That certainly isn't an intelligent solution. I'm perplexed why this has become such a Gordian knot. There must be an Alexader (or Olympia) at DDO HQ who can devise a simple solution.

By who's standards? I go through 4 6hr 30 pots a life. For just a 1-20. I can tr once a week in 20-24 hours pot time. There is no way you got 2 years of potions from gold rolls. I have 42 Major slayer pots and 27 greater pots. Not going to name off the rest. But this from years of accumulation when I was VIP. 7 years with a 2 year break and then back for last years rolls. I don't use the pots slayers are boring to me.

For you to get 2 years worth you would have had to roll between 61-90 everyday and hit that roll on the loot table. Statically improbable. You sir are a fibber.

[Anurakh]

And rebranded Updates also excluded - "mini-expansions". These days it's nearly half the quests each year that are not free to VIPs.

More of that. In these last years they have released a pack per year that is not mini-expansion or full expansion. Is a pack all that a VIP deserves for the subscription?

Let's face it, SSG has long since moved to a model where content isn't a perk for VIPs. And most of the VIPs at this point don't give a **** about the content, anyway, since the xpacks are not included in the subscription and it's in the xpacks where all the good loot is...

[Oxarhamar]

And rebranded Updates also excluded - "mini-expansions". These days it's nearly half the quests each year that are not free to VIPs.

True

One pack this year is what VIP gets as far as content from the look of the schedule

[Dandonk]

True

One pack this year is what VIP gets as far as content from the look of the schedule

Yep. Not a lot of content gotten from VIP anymore.

[mbartol]

VIP is unlimited access expansions excluded

The exclusion is a limit.

It was more acceptable (somewhat, since some players do regard it as breaking the promise that VIP is all-access) under Turbine when there were only 2 x-packs over 8 years of the FTP model. It was also weird that there were some races/classes/iconics excluded from VIP (very inconsistent). SSG spun off from Turbine, and released 5 expansions in 6 years, with plans to release 1/year moving forward.

It seems fair that VIP should really be UNLIMITED ACCESS while you’re subscribed, but really make it unlimited (latest x-pack debatable). It’s a little easier to do this now, since several races and classes were made free.

[KoobTheProud]

By who's standards? I go through 4 6hr 30 pots a life. For just a 1-20. I can tr once a week in 20-24 hours pot time. There is no way you got 2 years of potions from gold rolls. I have 42 Major slayer pots and 27 greater pots. Not going to name off the rest. But this from years of accumulation when I was VIP. 7 years with a 2 year break and then back for last years rolls. I don't use the pots slayers are boring to me.

For you to get 2 years worth you would have had to roll between 61-90 everyday and hit that roll on the loot table. Statically improbable. You sir are a fibber.

He could be buying boxes though. You get 5 and 5 on each box and after you have bought a few the pots start to stack up. You're not using them much on those lives, instead using a purchased Sovereign pot for the 50% bonus on the stones and of course on the Sagas and to level afterwards.

I probably have about 50 Major and Greater Slayer pots built up from various box purchases over the years. I only use these when I wind up with a slayer group in Orchard or Barovia. I also have many 30% and 20% pots built up from both boxes and farming and a few from rolls.

I don't find it impossible that he has a couple of years of pots built up.

[Malveaux]

He could be buying boxes though. You get 5 and 5 on each box and after you have bought a few the pots start to stack up. You're not using them much on those lives, instead using a purchased Sovereign pot for the 50% bonus on the stones and of course on the Sagas and to level afterwards.

I probably have about 50 Major and Greater Slayer pots built up from various box purchases over the years. I only use these when I wind up with a slayer group in Orchard or Barovia. I also have many 30% and 20% pots built up from both boxes and farming and a few from rolls.

I don't find it impossible that he has a couple of years of pots built up.

We are talking about gold rolls though and that is what he said. I too have pots in various box's I haven't opened. I think of otto's boxes as just in cases. Not a I need to be at cap and I hate leveling. guess what I didn't count those. Because I bought those from the store.

[Oxarhamar]

The exclusion is a limit.

It was more acceptable (somewhat, since some players do regard it as breaking the promise that VIP is all-access) under Turbine when there were only 2 x-packs over 8 years of the FTP model. It was also weird that there were some races/classes/iconics excluded from VIP (very inconsistent). SSG spun off from Turbine, and released 5 expansions in 6 years, with plans to release 1/year moving forward.

It seems fair that VIP should really be UNLIMITED ACCESS while you’re subscribed, but really make it unlimited (latest x-pack debatable). It’s a little easier to do this now, since several races and classes were made free.

I agree when the expansions were less often it wasn’t as bad

The mini expansions are even worse as those resemble packs that VIP use to get

That comment was in response to a limited & unlimited VIP access

Charging higher than VIP for a true unlimited subscription would probably be a wash with charging VIP for expansions depending upon the price points

[Oxarhamar]

He could be buying boxes though. You get 5 and 5 on each box and after you have bought a few the pots start to stack up. You're not using them much on those lives, instead using a purchased Sovereign pot for the 50% bonus on the stones and of course on the Sagas and to level afterwards.

I probably have about 50 Major and Greater Slayer pots built up from various box purchases over the years. I only use these when I wind up with a slayer group in Orchard or Barovia. I also have many 30% and 20% pots built up from both boxes and farming and a few from rolls.

I don't find it impossible that he has a couple of years of pots built up.

If they are from boxes that’s not from rolls

[Eantarus]

Charging higher than VIP for a true unlimited subscription would probably be a wash with charging VIP for expansions depending upon the price points

Well let's do the math.

In order for the VIPs to feel like very important people, the sub would need to include the premium-level of xpac/mini xpac. So that's $130 and $100 respectively. Then throw in the current cost of VIP at $100 per year. Since its xpac 1 year, mini-xpac the next... they would need to charge $215 a year or 18 bucks a month.

Yeah... I'd still need to see some major perks on top of content access before that would come close to reasonable.

[Ereshkigal]

I've got news for Sev, a lot of us hoard our daily silver pots too, how is gold hoarding an issue and not silver? Threat of Dragon attack? /s

During the time I was VIP during daily gold rolls, I rolled gold jackpots significantly more often than I ever did with years of daily silver rolls. I have no way of proving it but my gut instincts say gold is skewed to have better rolls to encourage Astral Shard gambling. And that's not even taking into account that gold jackpots are mostly an order of magnitude better than silver jackpots... sunflask wins not withstanding, those just don't seem WAI on gold roll reward lists.

From my experience I get a silver jackpot once maybe twice a year, over the course of 3 months I got at least 3 gold jackpots per server. My theory is that this skew is why gold daily rolls were too good a reward for VIP. Now I don't know how many people gamble shards on gold rolls... but I suspect on HC its a compelling number. I choose not to gamble shards but I am aware I am in the minority. But how many people were saving the gold roll wins and choosing when to commit to a server transfer to consolidate those wins? I only had 3 months of daily gold rolls but because of the unusual number of gold jackpots I will eventually be spending to transfer a few characters to Thelanis to consolidate hearts/tomes/mounts/and cosmetics from those wins. Does the cost of transfer NOT factor into their profit seeking over daily gold rolls?

Never underestimate the threat of dragon attack...

but also, now that you mention it, having random dragons attacking me out of the blue would be a great benefit for VIPs i think. Like in quests, in wildernesses, on guild ships, and even in public areas if they could figure out how to do it, maybe the dragon plucks me off the ground and flys me to an instance where I must fight it or die. Yes, please add the threat of dragon attacks as a VIP benefit. thanks.

Like you don't even have to make the dragons level appropriate. Just make it a random Challenge Rating dragon. I'm fine if occaisonally a legendary dragon blows its way into Waterworks when I'm level 4, bellowing my name and telling me how I will perish. That would be amazing in fact.

[Eantarus]

Never underestimate the threat of dragon attack...

but also, now that you mention it, having random dragons attacking me out of the blue would be a great benefit for VIPs i think. Like in quests, in wildernesses, on guild ships, and even in public areas if they could figure out how to do it, maybe the dragon plucks me off the ground and flys me to an instance where I must fight it or die. Yes, please add the threat of dragon attacks as a VIP benefit. thanks.

Like you don't even have to make the dragons level appropriate. Just make it a random Challenge Rating dragon. I'm fine if occaisonally a legendary dragon blows its way into Waterworks when I'm level 4, bellowing my name and telling me how I will perish. That would be amazing in fact.

I'm not sure I'd like that as a VIP benefit but it would be a funny augment to the game.

[Drunkendex]

but also, now that you mention it, having random dragons attacking me out of the blue would be a great benefit for VIPs i think. Like in quests, in wildernesses, on guild ships, and even in public areas if they could figure out how to do it, maybe the dragon plucks me off the ground and flys me to an instance where I must fight it or die. Yes, please add the threat of dragon attacks as a VIP benefit. thanks.

Like you don't even have to make the dragons level appropriate. Just make it a random Challenge Rating dragon. I'm fine if occaisonally a legendary dragon blows its way into Waterworks when I'm level 4, bellowing my name and telling me how I will perish. That would be amazing in fact.

Played RO back in the day, some low level zones had random high level mob roaming and it was NOT fun when you ran into one as low level.

If they actually added such VIP perk, I'd write a ticket to unsub me from VIP before it expires, no compensation needed.

[Jaxtan]

Just speculating, but this sounds like something coming from a financial workout consultant from corporate who is reviewing their subsidiary's books to get them back on track because they are not hitting their budget. He maybe asked why they were giving this away for free and allowing customers to get items being sold in the store. It doesn't matter to the financial person that 98% of the items are useless to the player and would never be bought to begin with. They don't understand it actually spurs spending when long time players use the items on their new characters and then buy more items, it's just lost revenue potential and it goes in their report back to corporate, thus forcing SSG to turn it off.

If this is the difference between them making it or folding, I take this as a sign they are in a pretty rough place financially.

[KoobTheProud]

Isle of Dread released in June 2022. I'm thinking if they didn't hit their numbers for the year something must have gone really wrong in the back half of the year. That would explain the second HCL in the back half of the year. A much-needed cash infusion. The question is did it help them fix their overall numbers?

[Gordo]

The daily gold rolls cannibalize store sales (even silver rolls to a lesser extent). Even though you don't pick what you get from the roll, over time with the daily rolls you end up accumulating all sorts of useful things: bells of opening, spirit cakes, xp pots, slayer pots, renown pots, healing elixirs, mnemonic pots, tomes, reincarnation hearts, potions of melee/ranged/spell power, cosmetics, jewelers kits, rest shrines, repair djinnis, guild amenity deeds, etc, etc. Tons of stuff. Not all of it is useful to everyone but I think everyone would at least use some of these things.

We need SSG to be fiscally sound if we want the game to continue. SSG is not our enemy. The weekly gold roll will still give players a taste of what's in the store, and SSG will get more store sales. There are other types of unique perks they could give VIP that I believe would delight VIPs even more than daily gold rolls, without hurting the bottom line. Let's see what they come up with.

SSG only deserves more money if they create more content, fix bugs, don't create NEW bugs, and frankly create something worth giving them more money for.
Sorry. The economics is fine. The execution of their business is a failure.

[Eantarus]

Isle of Dread released in June 2022. I'm thinking if they didn't hit their numbers for the year something must have gone really wrong in the back half of the year. That would explain the second HCL in the back half of the year. A much-needed cash infusion. The question is did it help them fix their overall numbers?

If the issue were cash, don't you think they'd be rushing out VIP upgrades as fast as humanly possible?

Plus - we already know they plan on selling a year of gold roles as a premium store item in the future. Again, if it were about money, why not push that out right away?

[Marshal_Lannes]

We are talking about gold rolls though and that is what he said.

Yes, I have 2 years' worth of XP pots from gold rolls. I never said I am constantly on a potion every second I'm in the game. Nor do I TR every week. I have raid days twice a week, a static group night, and hardcore now takes up 50% of the calendar year. So, for the times I am TRing and popping potions - for Slayer groups, Sagas, or R8-10 XP; then I have enough potions for bonus XP for 2 years. Easily. That's lost income for SSG where I would have wanted a potion and likely bought one. And I never run slayers without a kill count boost going. I absolutely buy those in the store before the gold rolls gave me a ridiculous amount. Your results may vary.

[Malveaux]

Yes, I have 2 years' worth of XP pots from gold rolls. I never said I am constantly on a potion every second I'm in the game. Nor do I TR every week. I have raid days twice a week, a static group night, and hardcore now takes up 50% of the calendar year. So, for the times I am TRing and popping potions - for Slayer groups, Sagas, or R8-10 XP; then I have enough potions for bonus XP for 2 years. Easily. That's lost income for SSG where I would have wanted a potion and likely bought one. And I never run slayers without a kill count boost going. I absolutely buy those in the store before the gold rolls gave me a ridiculous amount. Your results may vary.

You are a small time spender that has maybe 2 weeks of pots for a dolphin. lol 2 years lol. I don't think your 20 bucks in pots is going to make a blip on a financial report.