Severlin says daily gold rolls "fiscally" Irresponsible

[MaximumCharisma]

you think 10 AS are worth less than the gold roll item? That seems peculiar.

No sure honestly.

Doesn't cause lag (addresses severlin lag issues)
Perishable
"Value" can be adjusted like ddo points but its easier to work with than ddo points and a little less abrasive than clicking the ddo store icon.

I tossed out a number but looks like 225 ddo pts/month but with the above subtle differences.

[Oxarhamar]

No sure honestly.

Doesn't cause lag (addresses severlin lag issues)
Perishable
"Value" can be adjusted like ddo points but its easier to work with than ddo points and a little less abrasive than clicking the ddo store icon.

I tossed out a number but looks like 225 ddo pts/month but with the above subtle differences.

Yeah that’s not a bad idea

[Marshal_Lannes]

He's not wrong. I have an enormous stack of 200% slayer pots and Excellent and Greater XP potions from the gold rolls. I would assume those used to be prime store items. I won't need to buy any from the store for two years.

But, you can't just do nothing for VIPs either. That certainly isn't an intelligent solution. I'm perplexed why this has become such a Gordian knot. There must be an Alexader (or Olympia) at DDO HQ who can devise a simple solution.

[Nickodeamous]

So, I tracked every single gold roll last year and here is the general gist of what I got. I work in pricing, so I do alot of business cases on offers.

XP: 1.3M normal server + 200k HC server. I used this to start all my racials at lev 3-4 this past year. I spent ~1M on ~24 lives last year. The average XP stones I spent was about 42k (some were at around 32k, and some were more). I use a 50 pots on my lives, which I purchase at 20-25% off when they are available (so lets say 1 pot is 450 points - ((5595/12)*80%)).

Now that we know that One 50 pot is about 450 points, we can see the value of those first mins in the harbor/korthos. By using the XP stones I saved from the daily gold rolls, I prob saved an average of 20 mins of 50 pot time per life, or (20 mins x 24 lives) 480 mins. 480 mins is about 1.3 50 pots or lets call it 450 points X 1.3 or 585 DDO points. Ok, so the gold rolls to me for XP only are wroth about 585 DDO points.

Bottom Line for XP stones - (immaterial)

Now, lets look at what I received outside of daily rolls. I'm gonna say that I probably averaged 100 DDO points/day of stuff. Some of it good (+20 heart once, 2 hearts of wood, excellent and superior XP potions, Slayer boosts), and some of it like whatever, (maybe 2 mounts, like 1,000 hands, cosmetics). I would never buy mounts, or cosmetics (just not my thing), but I would buy slayer pots/XP pots. The hearts of wood are nice, but you can get those for free in game, so I wont weight those as high (except the +20 heart). I feel like if you remove the stuff that I wouldn't buy and do an estimate, I'd say I averaged about 60 DDO points/day or about 1,800/month.

Bottom Line for Stuff - material loss for SSG


Its a business, so giving away almost 2k DDO points a month and multiplying it by X number of VIP subs is massive. That's 24k points a year...basically $150 in DDO points on a double bonus sale.

So, what does SSG do here. They probably wont give VIP daily rolls. However, I do think there is a solution. (at least in my eyes).

Part 1 Give VIP daily gold rolls that only give XP, and then once a week, call it a platinum Roll and give out the bonus stuff. This way, we feel like we are getting something (starting at lev 3-4 each life), and maybe getting a nice bonus item. I've already proven about that XP stones are immaterial in terms of DDO points, so why not. Those are NOT the bottom line that Sev is speaking to.

Part 2 Increase monthly DDO points from 500 to 750. This is an extra 3k/year, which is about 12% of the 24k (earned) via dially gold rolls. This is not game breaking in any way, and shows VIP that we get 50% more DDO points than before. That at least is something.

Anyway, back to the game

Nico

[Seph1roth5]

Ridiculous, if it was such an awful idea/plan why did they do it for 10 months?

I got tons of stuff from rolls but none of it was stuff I would've bought normally. A couple +8 tomes go into storage or possibly on a 3rd or 4th tier alt I probably won't play this year. Cosmetic hair dyes/gear I never would've bought. I already have a nightmare so I didn't need the THREE extras.

Yeah I got some xp and slayer pots, but those go to my main(?) alt as well, to speed up his time. But I never pay pts for pots for him anyways so it's just a bonus.

It was nice to get piles of bigbys hands and the pile of xp crystals let my static group tr and crystal to 3, but that saves us maybe 10 min of running some other ****?

[yfernbottom]

The idea that every gold roll, or even one gold roll in 30 in my experience, represents a lost sale is absolutely absurd.

I would never pay for slayer pots, and if I want to pay for an XP pot it's 50%, which either aren't on the table or are absurdly rare, or nothing. The lesser pots I get are nice, but I would never pay for one. Tomes are great for random alts, hut there is exactly 0 chance I ever would have bought a tome for any of them. The things I but in the store are mainly 50% XP pots, permanent expansion storage, permanent character slots, and augments for my gear.

I mean if gold rolls dropped a voucher I could use to pick out the exact skill augments I need for the specific character I am playing, that would be some lost sales. But really that's about it. What nut bird would be buying Bigby's hands and hair dye all the time?

[1Soulless1]

Make vip's always get first time xp bonuses in any quest. Heroic, epic and reaper xp. Done VIP for life while I grind reaper xp.

[Diracorvus]

Maybe, just maybe, VIP doesn't have to be for everyone. Some people play this game for a decade. Eventually you just can't offer anything anymore. VIP might just be a thing for new players or people that only play short intervals with long breaks. I think the idea to give a few rewards every month is a good one, let's just see how it shapes up and until then hold your subscription if you don't think it offers enough.
I doubt very much that VIP is the big money maker for this game or that it's survival depends on the subscribers.

[Strider1963]

The mistake was in having them in the first place. It was a poor decision and even if someone subscribed for a year, the fee paid for the year would not cover the loss in point sales for items that were won and did not need to be purchased.

I personally don't buy any of the stuff I've gotten in the gold rolls in the company store. The only thing I buy in the store are occasional augments and ability tomes (if theres a really good sale). Never seen any of that in a gold or silver roll. Dont give a darn about cosmetics. If I get a cosmetic I like in a roll, Ill wear it but would never buy it. The gold roll xp is what was great for me. Starting at level 2 or 3 was a nice boost and made VIP much more attractive.

[Lamassut]

Ok if Sev reckons the daily gold Rolls were costing SSG money, I have no problem with them stopping. After all we all want the game to continue and the only people that have access to the data is SSG, so we can't really argue from any point of authority.

But, given the amount of people that have said they are going to or already have stopped their subs as a result of the loss it is also fiscally irresponsible not to replace the daily rolls with something else. The smart thing to do would be to replace it with something that cannot be bought from the store and therefore cannot have a negative fiscal impact. If only they could think of something like that. If only the players could come up with a suggestion or two! I mean, and forgive me for urinating in the wind here, but do you reckon players might value... say direct to quest teleports or no flagging for chains? Maybe something along those lines that no one has ever suggested before...

So what are they going to offer the VIPs in exchange for the money they are paid? Smoke? It's not content, they don't want xpacks to be included and many other things (iconics, ehem ehm) because that harms store/market. More experience? No, that this hurts the sale of potions. Rerolls? God forgive us, that the vip should also buy shards. Teleporters to quests? Wait, isn't that why they include teleporters in the overpriced deluxe xpacks? Do you want to devalue the maximum tier of the xpacks, with which they earn a lot of money? Every perk you can think of has a reflection in the store because they monetize EVERYTHING. This game is devilishly monetized.

SSG wants to sell subscriptions by offering smoke in return. And I'm sorry, the industry doesn't work like that. If you want to make money, you have to offer something to your buyers. Those who can make money selling smoke are charismatic and charming. SSG is better at offending customers than pleasing them, that's the reality, so forget about the smoke, and sell something tangible.

In my opinion, gold dice were about as innocuous as they could sell. The gold tables are terrible, and if people weren't so willing to forgive them and look kindly on them, they would see what a terrible scam they are. And SSG considers that to be a lot? Ha! These need the same treatment that WOTC has received this month, which through its greed has lost much more than it could have dreamed of.

Wake up, and stop paying these loan sharks. WOTC has had to give up because their buyers boycotted them, and while their competition has literally made a living (Paizo selling 8-month stock in 2 weeks…). You can make SSG react, if you want.

[Lamassut]

So, I tracked every single gold roll last year and here is the general gist of what I got. I work in pricing, so I do alot of business cases on offers.

XP: 1.3M normal server + 200k HC server. I used this to start all my racials at lev 3-4 this past year. I spent ~1M on ~24 lives last year. The average XP stones I spent was about 42k (some were at around 32k, and some were more). I use a 50 pots on my lives, which I purchase at 20-25% off when they are available (so lets say 1 pot is 450 points - ((5595/12)*80%)).

Now that we know that One 50 pot is about 450 points, we can see the value of those first mins in the harbor/korthos. By using the XP stones I saved from the daily gold rolls, I prob saved an average of 20 mins of 50 pot time per life, or (20 mins x 24 lives) 480 mins. 480 mins is about 1.3 50 pots or lets call it 450 points X 1.3 or 585 DDO points. Ok, so the gold rolls to me for XP only are wroth about 585 DDO points.

Bottom Line for XP stones - (immaterial)

Now, lets look at what I received outside of daily rolls. I'm gonna say that I probably averaged 100 DDO points/day of stuff. Some of it good (+20 heart once, 2 hearts of wood, excellent and superior XP potions, Slayer boosts), and some of it like whatever, (maybe 2 mounts, like 1,000 hands, cosmetics). I would never buy mounts, or cosmetics (just not my thing), but I would buy slayer pots/XP pots. The hearts of wood are nice, but you can get those for free in game, so I wont weight those as high (except the +20 heart). I feel like if you remove the stuff that I wouldn't buy and do an estimate, I'd say I averaged about 60 DDO points/day or about 1,800/month.

Bottom Line for Stuff - material loss for SSG


Its a business, so giving away almost 2k DDO points a month and multiplying it by X number of VIP subs is massive. That's 24k points a year...basically $150 in DDO points on a double bonus sale.

So, what does SSG do here. They probably wont give VIP daily rolls. However, I do think there is a solution. (at least in my eyes).

Part 1 Give VIP daily gold rolls that only give XP, and then once a week, call it a platinum Roll and give out the bonus stuff. This way, we feel like we are getting something (starting at lev 3-4 each life), and maybe getting a nice bonus item. I've already proven about that XP stones are immaterial in terms of DDO points, so why not. Those are NOT the bottom line that Sev is speaking to.

Part 2 Increase monthly DDO points from 500 to 750. This is an extra 3k/year, which is about 12% of the 24k (earned) via dially gold rolls. This is not game breaking in any way, and shows VIP that we get 50% more DDO points than before. That at least is something.

Anyway, back to the game

Nico

Increase points? That hurts the sale of points :P With Sev's philosophy, they can't give anything to the VIPs, because they have everything monetized and it would hurt the sale in the store.

They want to make money by offering nothing. Thats the reality. Let them scam you if you want... but remember that they were the ones who devalued the subscription with continuous xpacks and mini-xpacks. It was not the free code when the covid, oh no. Those packs were old and should have become free long before and in perpetuity, not just with a temporary code. It's all those yearly xpacks that VIPs are required to buy on top of their subscription has been killed by the subscription. With Turbine the xpacks were passable because they weren't that frequent and there were still few. But now, what are annuals? With turbine, every year there were added packs that were free for VIPs. Now if there is one at year we are lucky. Baaah. It is SSG who has killed the subscription with his greed, and now they are surprised that people have lost patience with them.

And one could say, well, they want to move to another subscription model where it doesn't offer content anymore, but it offers… what does it offer? Because they don't want to offer something tangible.

[Lamassut]

He's not wrong. I have an enormous stack of 200% slayer pots and Excellent and Greater XP potions from the gold rolls. I would assume those used to be prime store items. I won't need to buy any from the store for two years.

But, you can't just do nothing for VIPs either. That certainly isn't an intelligent solution. I'm perplexed why this has become such a Gordian knot. There must be an Alexader (or Olympia) at DDO HQ who can devise a simple solution.

The simple solution is to stop being greedy. They have to offer something tangible to the VIPs, because they give them a continuous and secure income, and not everyone who pays a subscription is going to buy pots and stuff in the store anyway. (I never buy pots, for example, which I consider absurdly overpriced.) And believe me, of those who buy them, the majority will continue buying them, even if they win them in the gold dice.

(What has harmed the store this year has been rampant duping, but you can't talk about that xD)

If I were them, I would create two subscriptions. One for new, which would include all content except the latest xpack. This helps retain new players to give the game a good try. And another one for veterans who already have all the content, with perks like experience, skipping a quest from a saga, points for the store, daily golds, etc. If they are not greedy and do not make subscriptions expensive, there will be people who will take both subscriptions.

But if they want to sell smoke, I mean, nothing for money... well, good luck finding dumb buyers

[archest]

Regular VIP subscription access to adventure packs.
All Access VIP subscription access to all content.
Gold roll for vip same as silver roll for FTP
500 monthly points
It was unfair to subscription services to have a free access coupon < lost money for ssg (Unless they were granted government $$$ for doing so in a tax write off for pandemic relief)
It diminished the value of a VIP subscription.
Your subscribing to the game so you dont have to buy the content.
yet you still have to buy the content, to play the adventure packs your paying for access too, but dont have access to, in the subscription service. ( not sure if this is even legal)
The 1st bank slot purchased even in the subscription plan should provide premium access to the shared bank/platinum if you chose to end your subscription services.
Character slots need to be purchased for access to characters in the same way they are now.
If there is an issue with prizes in the gold roll then change them.
VIP gets a silver roll too ?

[Sylvado]

If I were them, I would create two subscriptions. One for new, which would include all content except the latest xpack.

Not any value there because it is not likely that someone would skip buying a X pack and wait a year to get it free when it is no longer the latest. Perhaps as a VIP signup bonus for new players.

[Lamassut]

Regular VIP subscription access to adventure packs.
All Access VIP subscription access to all content.
Gold roll for vip same as silver roll for FTP
500 monthly points
It was unfair to subscription services to have a free access coupon < lost money for ssg (Unless they were granted government $$$ for doing so in a tax write off for pandemic relief)
It diminished the value of a VIP subscription.
Your subscribing to the game so you dont have to buy the content.
yet you still have to buy the content, to play the adventure packs your paying for access too, but dont have access to, in the subscription service. ( not sure if this is even legal)
The 1st bank slot purchased even in the subscription plan should provide premium access to the shared bank/platinum if you chose to end your subscription services.
Character slots need to be purchased for access to characters in the same way they are now.
If there is an issue with prizes in the gold roll then change them.
VIP gets a silver roll too ?

Nah, the free code did not devalue anything.Those packs were old and should have become free long before and in perpetuity, not just with a temporary code. It's all those yearly xpacks that VIPs are required to buy on top of their subscription has been killed by the subscription. Also, SSG makes far fewer packs per year than Turbine (an annual one tends to be the norm), favoring mini-xpacks and xpacks that aren't included in the subscription instead. With turbine, most of the content they created in a year was free for vips, and this is not true with SSG, which crams that content that should have been free for vips into an annual xpack or mini-xpack.

Old content should be made free, or entry for new players becomes prohibitive (and I point out that SSG has not done this, because their codes were temporary, to take advantage of a bubble of potential players...). But new content is being removed from subscription, giving nothing back, and SSG doesn't want to give anything back because they think they can sell subscriptions for smoke. That is the problem.

[Lamassut]

Not any value there because it is not likely that someone would skip buying a X pack and wait a year to get it free when it is no longer the latest. Perhaps as a VIP signup bonus for new players.

Yup. That is the problem, that they do not create new content that is free for vip, that is why they have killed the subscription. And yes, probably today the veterans would no longer be interested in a content subscription, because in the last few years the VIPs have been forced to buy all the content. Before SSG changed the policy that Turbine had, there were veterans who were interested in the content, because they didn't want to worry about buying all the new content they put out every year.

But what new players look for in a subscription is content and some store points, they rarely look for experience or other things. And for veterans, unless you give them the latest content, adding content to the subscription is literally zero value. Hence, I proposed two differentiated subscriptions, because the current one is very obsolete, and it does not please neither new ones (who look at the price of subscriptions + xpacks and go to another game) nor veterans (who do not give a copper for the content, nor the open elite, nor half of the things that the current subscription gives)

In any case, it is a suggestion that will fall on deaf ears, because SSG has already shown that it does not understand marketing at all.

[Oxarhamar]

Nah, the free code did not devalue anything.Those packs were old and should have become free long before and in perpetuity, not just with a temporary code. It's all those yearly xpacks that VIPs are required to buy on top of their subscription has been killed by the subscription. Also, SSG makes far fewer packs per year than Turbine (an annual one tends to be the norm), favoring mini-xpacks and xpacks that aren't included in the subscription instead. With turbine, most of the content they created in a year was free for vips, and this is not true with SSG, which crams that content that should have been free for vips into an annual xpack or mini-xpack.

Old content should be made free, or entry for new players becomes prohibitive (and I point out that SSG has not done this, because their codes were temporary, to take advantage of a bubble of potential players...). But new content is being removed from subscription, giving nothing back, and SSG doesn't want to give anything back because they think they can sell subscriptions for smoke. That is the problem.

+1

[Oxarhamar]

Regular VIP subscription access to adventure packs.
All Access VIP subscription access to all content.
Gold roll for vip same as silver roll for FTP
500 monthly points
It was unfair to subscription services to have a free access coupon < lost money for ssg (Unless they were granted government $$$ for doing so in a tax write off for pandemic relief)
It diminished the value of a VIP subscription.
Your subscribing to the game so you dont have to buy the content.
yet you still have to buy the content, to play the adventure packs your paying for access too, but dont have access to, in the subscription service. ( not sure if this is even legal)
The 1st bank slot purchased even in the subscription plan should provide premium access to the shared bank/platinum if you chose to end your subscription services.
Character slots need to be purchased for access to characters in the same way they are now.
If there is an issue with prizes in the gold roll then change them.
VIP gets a silver roll too ?

Having a higher tier VIP is not the solution

Giving away content did not devalue VIP as much as constantly pumping out expansions that VIPs are excluded from

If you end your VIP then things that VIP gave you are locked bank, character slots, races, classes, etc this is WAI and your suggestion would only further devalue VIP

The issue with the roles in the context of the video was the storage of the items

[archest]

kinds of like selling limited and unlimited internet access.
the business modal is there but SSG is missing it.

[Oxarhamar]

kinds of like selling limited and unlimited internet access.
the business modal is there but SSG is missing it.

VIP is unlimited access expansions excluded