Class Archetypes and Iconic Races

[Bacab]

I was curious if when making an Iconic Character or doing an Iconic Life if we can pick an Archetype class.

I have never done an Iconic Life or character before because I enjoy the low level quest and the feeling up improvement or the gaining of power in the first few levels.

So I guess what I am curious of is: Let's say I make a Bladeforged PLD. Can he start as a Sacred Fist w/o doing the LR Heart cheese?

I somehow don't own Bladeforged yet, so I cannot test this out myself yet.

If I can do Sacred Fist, I think I am buying Bladeforged for quick 3 Sacred Fists lives and 3 Bladeforged lives.

[Wahnsinnig]

Bladeforged sacred fist will be tricky.

When you choose to make an iconic character the class for level 1 is locked to that iconic race. You do not get an option to choose anything else.

You can not multiclass the base class and the archetype, so your bladeforged will start with one level paladin and will not be allowed to take the sacred fist archetype at all.

That means you can not take 14 levels of sacred fist and use a +1 lesser heart to get rid of the paladin level at lvl 1. You have to take all 15 levels as paladin, then use a +20 lesser heart to change those levels to sacred fist.

[misterski]

I was curious if when making an Iconic Character or doing an Iconic Life if we can pick an Archetype class.

I have never done an Iconic Life or character before because I enjoy the low level quest and the feeling up improvement or the gaining of power in the first few levels.

So I guess what I am curious of is: Let's say I make a Bladeforged PLD. Can he start as a Sacred Fist w/o doing the LR Heart cheese?

I somehow don't own Bladeforged yet, so I cannot test this out myself yet.

If I can do Sacred Fist, I think I am buying Bladeforged for quick 3 Sacred Fists lives and 3 Bladeforged lives.

No. Cordovan has said iconics must start with their base class. There was a bug that allowed it for a little while but it was fixed fairly quickly. Afraid you'll have to resort to LRs to do it.

[misterski]

That means you can not take 14 levels of sacred fist and use a +1 lesser heart to get rid of the paladin level at lvl 1. You have to take all 15 levels as paladin, then use a +20 lesser heart to change those levels to sacred fist.

This is not entirely correct. A regular LR heart will work since Sacred Fist and Paladin are the same class, basically (this is why you can't multiclass paladin and sacred fist). No need for an LR+1-20 in this scenario. You can pick Sacred Fist at level one during an LR and all of your later paladin levels will change to sacred fist levels.

[Bacab]

Thanks for the replies!

Was hoping it would let me pick, but sounds like it doesn't.

[Fauxknight]

A regular LR heart will work since

This, no need for a +x heart. It does not count as a class change to just flip from base class to archetype. I did a couple of my Stormsinger this way with Scoundrel as the base Iconic.

Just remember when Lesser TRing an Iconic out of it's base class that on the character creation screen you have to go straight to picking the class you do want instead of picking Iconic and the Iconic race will fill itself in automatically since it's not something that can be changed anyways.

[mikarddo]

As others have posted - unfortunately Archtypes and Iconics do not mix well.

This is very unfortunately:
- Racial PL and a few core Heroic PL mix well with Epic PL. These are the imporant ones.
- Heroic PL mix well with Iconic PL (less important once you have the core heroic PL for your build and heroic completionist)

For me atleast this leaves no epic PL to pair with Archtype PL but plenty of unused Iconic PL that could have been paired with Archtype PL.

Hence, I will run Archtypes far less as they do not match with anything for me. Then - that might be the exact reason they do not match with Iconics as SSG means for me to fork over the points for the LR Hearts to make it happen. So, the exact reason I dislike the system may be the reason it is made that way. The fast fix when it was doable certainly argues it might be so.

[Oxarhamar]

As others have posted - unfortunately Archtypes and Iconics do not mix well.

This is very unfortunately:
- Racial PL and a few core Heroic PL mix well with Epic PL. These are the imporant ones.
- Heroic PL mix well with Iconic PL (less important once you have the core heroic PL for your build and heroic completionist)

For me atleast this leaves no epic PL to pair with Archtype PL but plenty of unused Iconic PL that could have been paired with Archtype PL.

Hence, I will run Archtypes far less as they do not match with anything for me. Then - that might be the exact reason they do not match with Iconics as SSG means for me to fork over the points for the LR Hearts to make it happen. So, the exact reason I dislike the system may be the reason it is made that way. The fast fix when it was doable certainly argues it might be so.

You can pair them

it’s just more complicated to pair matching class with archetype due to the LR

It’s much simpler to pair them as a multi class for example Trailblazer 2 monk 18 sacred fist

[misterski]

The fast fix when it was doable certainly argues it might be so.

The reason they fixed it is that it was unintentional and the character creation screen for iconics wasn't designed to support archetype selection which caused all sorts of bugs according to the devs. They always intended it to only be doable for iconics with LRs.

[kpak01]

Another option is to level 15->30 as a Bladeforged (normal) Paladin, then do an ER back to 20, during which you can convert to a Sacred Fist. Then level back up to 30 again, and you'll get the Bladeforged & Sacred Fist PLs you want, plus an Epic PL.

Also, for any Iconic other than Bladeforged, you can be 1 whatever / 19 Sacred Fist (or some other split) with no shenanigans needed.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Also, for any Iconic other than Bladeforged, you can be 1 whatever / 19 Sacred Fist (or some other split) with no shenanigans needed.

That's what I did with one, a tabaxi trailblazer... 1st level as monk from the iconic, 2nd as cleric of aureon (quarterstaff as favoured weapon plus magical training & divine might) with the remainder in sacred fist, it's a lot of fun, especially on my completionist with all those handy extra racial APs, she has SPEEEEEED for days.

[Wahnsinnig]

This is not entirely correct. A regular LR heart will work since Sacred Fist and Paladin are the same class, basically (this is why you can't multiclass paladin and sacred fist). No need for an LR+1-20 in this scenario. You can pick Sacred Fist at level one during an LR and all of your later paladin levels will change to sacred fist levels.

I actually knew this, tnx for the reminder

[Bacab]

You can pair them

it’s just more complicated to pair matching class with archetype due to the LR

It’s much simpler to pair them as a multi class for example Trailblazer 2 monk 18 sacred fist

I like this idea a lot.

[Bacab]

Another option is to level 15->30 as a Bladeforged (normal) Paladin, then do an ER back to 20, during which you can convert to a Sacred Fist. Then level back up to 30 again, and you'll get the Bladeforged & Sacred Fist PLs you want, plus an Epic PL.

Also, for any Iconic other than Bladeforged, you can be 1 whatever / 19 Sacred Fist (or some other split) with no shenanigans needed.

This is a great idea too!

[Loriega]

No. Cordovan has said iconics must start with their base class. There was a bug that allowed it for a little while but it was fixed fairly quickly. Afraid you'll have to resort to LRs to do it.

Why though? So they can sell hearts.
Just a cash grab. So "new free archetypes" aren't really free.
There is no reason why one shouldn't be able to start an iconic archetype. None at all.
And while I'm at it, why can't we TR to level 4 or 7? or 10 or 15? Since we bought that feature, if we did.
Yet another arbitrary false promise leading to a waste of ddo points.

[C-Dog]

There is no reason why one shouldn't be able to start an iconic archetype. None at all.

Oh, well, if you say so, that settles it.

Why though? So they can sell hearts.
Just a cash grab. So "new free archetypes" aren't really free.

Pffft.

Most archetypes work great, if not best, as multi's.

You might as well ask why you can't start an Iconic with any class for pure. A: Because that's not how they work.

And while I'm at it, why can't we TR to level 4 or 7? or 10 or 15? Since we bought that feature, if we did.
Yet another arbitrary false promise leading to a waste of ddo points.

Excellent point. But why stop there?

If the "point" of the game is reincarnation, why shouldn't we be be able to TR to 18 so we can TR again immediately???!!! DDO is clearly manipulating us here. Another cash grab, clearly.

Or... maybe the point of the game is... to play the game? Just a thought. <shrug>

</sarcasm off>

[mikarddo]

The reason they fixed it is that it was unintentional and the character creation screen for iconics wasn't designed to support archetype selection which caused all sorts of bugs according to the devs. They always intended it to only be doable for iconics with LRs.

Intended is a rather strong word here. Lets see
a) Iconics work with archtypes if you multi-class
b) Iconics work with archtypes after a LR
c) Iconics do not work with archtypes initially

Care to pick the odd one out? No, "intended" here means "your could not or would not make it work even though it obviously should have".
Lets please not presend otherwise.

[mikarddo]

Another option is to level 15->30 as a Bladeforged (normal) Paladin, then do an ER back to 20, during which you can convert to a Sacred Fist. Then level back up to 30 again, and you'll get the Bladeforged & Sacred Fist PLs you want, plus an Epic PL.

Also, for any Iconic other than Bladeforged, you can be 1 whatever / 19 Sacred Fist (or some other split) with no shenanigans needed.

If you are already done with epic past lives thats not really a solution though. If you are not done with epic PL you can just play the archtype 1-30 getting the archtype PL and the epic PL anyway.

Also, sure could play any of the archtypes as a 6 / 6 / 8 archtype inquisitive. But thats hardly the point. If you really want to experience the full archtype cap stones are a thing too. So, thanks for proving my point that archtypes dont mix well with iconics.

[mikarddo]

Oh, well, if you say so, that settles it.

Pffft.

Most archetypes work great, if not best, as multi's.

Well, obviously if everyone would just be happy to play the way you do and prefer multi's there would be no dissatisfaction

Sure, any archtype can just be played as a 6/6/8 Inq for example - but is that really playing the archtype or just getting the PL?

Some players might *gasp, hard to imagine, I know* actually want to play the archtype with the capstone. Say, the bard stormsinger which is definitely stronger as a pure build caster. But then that probably does not matter as thats not part of *your* vision which is obviously correct as you said so :smiles:

Note, you started the stuff so I am giving back in equal measure! All in good fun, have a nice day. Afterall DDO is just a game and its my daughters birthday so dont take my response too seriously