Heroic XP a life needs changed

[GoldyGopher]

I dont believe that metaphore fits the suggestions made here. If xp is lowered those with knowledge will gain the most as they remove the least optimal xp/min quests from the line-up. Reducing xp by 30% may make these people level atleast twice as fast, maybe even 60% faster. On the other hand those with less meta-knowledge will likely only level 30% faster from a 30% reduction in xp cost.

That is what I am saying.

That is why I disagree with the proposal.

[mikarddo]

That is what I am saying.

That is why I disagree with the proposal.

I probably read too fast then - thanks for the clarification.

[Scrag]

I dont believe that metaphore fits the suggestions made here. If xp is lowered those with knowledge will gain the most as they remove the least optimal xp/min quests from the line-up. Reducing xp by 30% may make these people level atleast twice as fast, maybe even 60% faster. On the other hand those with less meta-knowledge will likely only level 30% faster from a 30% reduction in xp cost.

I think this is probably a good assertion. I would argue that that isn't a bad thing. Getting into the ability to tr more could lead some people to, gasp, have alts?

[SirShen]

I do think that XP needed for each TR should be lowered for those trying to catch up. At the moment it is after first TR, XP needed per rank is increased by 50%.After your second TR, it is increased by 100%. Could change it to 25% (second life) and 50% (third life and on). I have all my past lifes I see no problem in helping those that need it.

[mikarddo]

I do think that XP needed for each TR should be lowered for those trying to catch up. At the moment it is after first TR, XP needed per rank is increased by 50%.After your second TR, it is increased by 100%. Could change it to 25% (second life) and 50% (third life and on). I have all my past lifes I see no problem in helping those that need it.

First 10 lives: +0%
Next 20 lives: +50%
After that: +100%

Good for catching up (new players or alts). Doesnt help those with umpteen PLs which includes two of my characters.

[Drekisen]

Reduced XP to 20 so I can finish all my RR's? yeah you have my Yay! for sure!

[Bagel99]

Reduced XP to 20 so I can finish all my RR's? yeah you have my Yay! for sure!

I know right! Hell i might even do some RRs on an .... *whispers* alt character. The shame! I think people dont realize reducing the xp to 20 would have no ill consequence, those who cruise through them have the option for alts, casuals have stronger mains etc etc. I think it'd be a nice bone to throw allowing folks to get into the meat and potatoes of what they are selling/updating faster.

No catch up mechanics need to be put in to slow the roll later on, its a game, if i were to fill my 10 character slots with completionist characters id be **** near 50 ... and could easily spend years keeping them up to date and trying out new builds. Everyone is shy to make the original base game more linear and flow faster into mid and late game now. Whether its nostalgia or whatever, some people dont have the time capital to invest and without a reasonable progession (for the casual player) many say why bother and leave instead of spending. There are always the devoted, grinders and those who spend but i think itd do good for new players coming in to have a simple stamped moderate pace xp goal upfront. Zergers be damned, no issues with them, let them be fast and free. I will not feel robbed if player "X" can run something a ton faster and speed level compared to me. If i were to progress 30% faster and those around me suddenly became flash, i wouldnt mind. No meta mindset here, just wish the grind reduced somewhat. Makes me hit cap and not want to restart to slog it out again sometimes. 2.5-2.85m a life would be a god send!

All those who argue in the name of balance and are concerned with others, i wonder why you think the way you do. We all are on the same team, pvp is nonexistent except first life regulated tourneys i see pop up and if someone is uber strong character wise good for them! Be happy they achieved! SSG adds more lives and soon legendary items may be on the list ... who knows how long they will take to complete. I see no end to the content provided here so long as we the players keep playing and spending some green to keep the lights on!

2.75m seems like a nice number with wiggle room either way depending on merit. And even though it was mentioned in update 20 i think the xp curve was changed, November 2013 ... a good decade ago. SSG wasnt even steering at that point in time in its current form, Turbine was. I remember store points being TP

[Diracorvus]

All those who argue in the name of balance and are concerned with others, i wonder why you think the way you do. We all are on the same team, pvp is nonexistent except first life regulated tourneys i see pop up and if someone is uber strong character wise good for them! Be happy they achieved!

The problem is power creep. Take a look at the last few quest packs released and compared them with older quests, then you will see the problem: Enemies are stronger, bigger groups, higher saves, trap DCs etc. because the devs have to assume everyone has all those past lifes.
What if you don't wanna join the past life train or you are a new player just wanting to play the newest expansion? Tough luck.
Past lifes were a great way to make sure all content stays relevant and is played but now after so many years there are problems with it. Power creep for example, or the fact you have to play classes you don't want to play just to get that past life feat.
These suggestions are great for min-maxers and nobody else.

[Bagel99]

The problem is power creep. Take a look at the last few quest packs released and compared them with older quests, then you will see the problem: Enemies are stronger, bigger groups, higher saves, trap DCs etc. because the devs have to assume everyone has all those past lifes.
What if you don't wanna join the past life train or you are a new player just wanting to play the newest expansion? Tough luck.
Past lifes were a great way to make sure all content stays relevant and is played but now after so many years there are problems with it. Power creep for example, or the fact you have to play classes you don't want to play just to get that past life feat.
These suggestions are great for min-maxers and nobody else.

Well yes there will always be harder content and i agree that some of the past life bonuses could be reworked and balanced more appropriately BUT i also believe that a nice first life planned build can do newer content. Casters and rangers always contribute and if your stuck as a melee thats kind of a design issue. Melees have a very low floor and high ceiling for skill. Universally making it easier to level will introduce some measure of overall character strength true, but i also again dont feel like it will hurt anyone. If newer content is tough try to group it.

On my suggestion for the xp curve being changed it was primarily focused to getting a shorter 1-20 as eventually level 40 will be the goal. Reincarnation speed increasing would not be terrible and is still on a 3 day timer anyhow per step. If legendary has a reincarnation you might have to wait 9 days to fully come back to 1 anyways. Even if shortened i wouldnt immediately seek triple completionist. Would just make trying new builds out on my 3 toons easier.

No one has to slog through lives they dont want to, i dont play classes i dont like simple as that. BUT when playing a class i do enjoy i dont want to feel like its much larger hurdle to get to 20 then to 40. Hope that clarified some things. Also most pack content is better on the backend in my experience. Epics and legendary versions of them. I rarely touch the cerulean hills quests until later on for that reason.

[Ereshkigal]

Nah, there's no need to change Heroic XP. The fun of getting your racial past lives is the journey, not the destination. Anything you do that makes that shorter will not only frustrate people who already "walked up hill both ways in the snow", but you'll cheapen the experience for those to come.

If you must change it, make it require more XP, not less.

thanks

[amessi1]

for me, it's the tail end of heroics that are dreadfully slow. levels 18-20. so an easy alternative suggestion would be to make the handful of quests around these levels more valuable in terms of xp given. or release a new pack with great xp at these levels.

[mikarddo]

for me, it's the tail end of heroics that are dreadfully slow. levels 18-20. so an easy alternative suggestion would be to make the handful of quests around these levels more valuable in terms of xp given. or release a new pack with great xp at these levels.

You may already know this so please take this as an attempt at friendly advice.

Make **** sure not to level until you have nearly all the xp for the next level. Run loads of level 13, 14, 15 and 16 quests - GH, Grim etc, Necro 4, Missing Chain, Litany, Lost at Sea, Shadow of a Doubt, To Curse the Sky, Sharn 1, Cogs, Sharn 2, Wheloon and Lords of Dust (chain). Maybe add in a few level 17 quests if needed.

The lower level quests and being level +2 always makes things go faster and you only take 18 when you are nearly 19, so level 18-20 feels pretty fast.

Obviously, if you get into a great group by all means do run the higher level stuff - often Druids, High Roads and Storm Horns - but if not, go for the lower level quests, and the older stuff where mobs have fewer hp. I too used to feel that level 18-20 was a slug but now I barely notice and insteed feel I am nearly level 20 when I take level 18.

[Oxarhamar]

Well the only way that work wouldn't be devalued is if every player with completed heroic past lives were gifted a Heroic XP gem for each past life that contained the amount of XP that the Heroic XP Cap was lowered by.

If you're truly worried about folks complaining because of that reason, then this would be a simple solution.


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However, I don't agree with lowering the XP for Heroics. Taking longer is good for SSG and good for DDO. What keeps people playing is the journey, not the destination.

So I don't think they should lower it. Perhaps raise it tho. Yeah, maybe add a 4th life that is 20% higher than 3rd life, and make all subsequent lives like the 4th life.

Since you think it's unreasonable for older players to be upset about new players getting something with less work, then you should also not be upset if older players got something with less work than new players will have to put in - right?

I still think the most reasonable solution is to boost xp in places like optionals & add heroic sagas that would increase the amount of xp available instead of lowering the threshold

There are so many optionals that just get skipped because the xp isn't worth the trip off the direct path

[Ereshkigal]

I still think the most reasonable solution is to boost xp in places like optionals & add heroic sagas that would increase the amount of xp available instead of lowering the threshold

There are so many optionals that just get skipped because the xp isn't worth the trip off the direct path

for many quests the amount of xp boost that would be required would be so huge that it would result in many fewer quests being completed on the path to TR.

So while it might prevent parts of some quests being ignored, it would just lead to more whole quests being ignored.

Personally, I don't see where there's a problem with optionals. They're optional. People who want to do them because they enjoy them can still do them. Those folks that are on a different mission can ignore them. I think it's perfect as is.

I don't see a problem with the xp either. I'm not sure what people are upset about. If they feel like it takes too long to reach a completionist goal, then they can just set themselves a different goal.

Why is there an expectation that a casual gamer should be able to have exactly the experience as someone that plays for many hours every day? If they did this then there would be no need to reward for playing the game for longer, and then SSG could not monetize it and receive more income from the players that play more.

It makes zero sense to me from the standpoint of a player or from the standpoint of running a business.


People can buy their way to completionist if they want to. It's completely doable.


It's just people saying, "I don't want to put in the effort, and I don't want to spend the money I earned with effort outside the game, but I still want the same trophy."

So many people already have completionists rewards that it is extremely clear the goals are not too difficult - and in fact some are complaining that they're too easy to reach and they feel like they have no new challenges left in the game.

[mrfantastic1]

We all have an interest and a stake in this. There does seem to be some 'hazing' attitude from players who have done this the old way against players who want a new way.

XP grind aside, should we have to play characters we don't want too? If we can answer this question we can move to the next point of TR and PL.

Interesting topic!

[Oxarhamar]

for many quests the amount of xp boost that would be required would be so huge that it would result in many fewer quests being completed on the path to TR.

So while it might prevent parts of some quests being ignored, it would just lead to more whole quests being ignored.

Personally, I don't see where there's a problem with optionals. They're optional. People who want to do them because they enjoy them can still do them. Those folks that are on a different mission can ignore them. I think it's perfect as is.

definately it is not perfect

majority of optionals get skiped both because they stray too far off the path & because the xp is low

an example of well done optionals is Von 3 the xp is good & they are not too far off the path

The result of less quests being completed for TR if opts were boosted is the same result as lowering overall xp requirement so thats moot

[amessi1]

Obviously, if you get into a great group by all means do run the higher level stuff - often Druids, High Roads and Storm Horns - but if not, go for the lower level quests, and the older stuff where mobs have fewer hp. I too used to feel that level 18-20 was a slug but now I barely notice and insteed feel I am nearly level 20 when I take level 18.

Good advice! I often find that grouping in the 18-20 range is less common...also, I've been at end game for a long time, only picking up heroic levels as new races come out...so, i've forgotten the secret sauce to leveling there a bit.

[Ereshkigal]

definately it is not perfect

majority of optionals get skiped both because they stray too far off the path & because the xp is low

an example of well done optionals is Von 3 the xp is good & they are not too far off the path

The result of less quests being completed for TR if opts were boosted is the same result as lowering overall xp requirement so thats moot

I mean Von3 is the ultimate Token of the Twelve farm. I can do it in just over 6 minutes and get 2 full tokens plus fragments. Don't screw with that quest.

[Ereshkigal]

Good advice! I often find that grouping in the 18-20 range is less common...also, I've been at end game for a long time, only picking up heroic levels as new races come out...so, i've forgotten the secret sauce to leveling there a bit.

level 18 seems pretty common to me ( on Argo ) It's almost always easy to get a group.

I don't know about 20 because I haven't run epics since going to Argo, but 19 is definitely the "forbidden" level and it is nearly impossible to find an LFM that includes that level. People just stay at 18 until it's time to TR.

[Oxarhamar]

I mean Von3 is the ultimate Token of the Twelve farm. I can do it in just over 6 minutes and get 2 full tokens plus fragments. Don't screw with that quest.

it's already had the XP nerfed & the opts are still worth it because they are not far from the path but it was about heroic lifes not about tokens