Would starting Iconics at 7 on subsequent lives would enable a more enjoyable game?

[Tilomere]

Right now game monetization includes selling xp in the form of boxes, potions, guild and other boosts.

To drive that monetization, a carrot and stick method of balance, where a player is punished until whether through time and/or money they have paid to get to a rewarding cap experience.

Among other issues this leads to a bad class and archetype experience, where anything that can be built out of an iconic needs to relatively suck enough to increase the value of xp monetization to compensate for starting half way to cap which devalues that monetization.

This includes any ranged build since due to universal trees they can be built out of any iconic, as well as any leveling melee build, which due to 18/1 iconic/1 divine might can also be built out of any iconic

One solution is to push iconics back on subsequent lives to start at level 7 instead of 15. This will preserve the monetization of the game due to having nearer to the same distance as a starting at 1 dps caster (dragonborn or tiefling sorc for example, or warlock, alc, etc.), which will allow closer to dps arcane leveling ability for other archtypes. This will allow other ranged builds, and iconic builds that aren't just troll builds to group together on a more even footing, since they will all have a more even requirement for xp monetization to get to cap rewards.

We can take all iconic 15 starting gear and just cut the stats on it in half for the 7 gear set, and start them in the marketplace like other veteran characters. This also means iconics in the future will no longer be required to be bad troll builds, and eliminate pressure to use iconics to get to cap and open up using any race/class combo a person actually wants to play. Yes, some iconic abilities are powerful, but those are all easily gated by having ranks available at level 5, 10, and 15, such as reconstruct SLA, which would also bring better balance to hardcore.

To buff such builds to be closer to on-par with the sorcs that they now start closer in level with, we could then eliminate the 42 epic/legendary power, and distribute it 2/lvl in heroics.

[wolfy42]

I honestly suggest going the other way, instead of reducing the level iconics start at, allow VIP's to start new reincarnated characters at level 4/7 (veteran status). This reduces the advantage of iconics, speeds up the process of getting initial complitionist, and streamlines the game a bit (while giving a decent bonus to long term players for subbing).

Lets be honest here, most people playing have already had a past life or two, or 20 at this point. So if you made reincarnated iconics start at 7, you would be removing most of the advantage of buying an iconic (which people already did). I doubt that would be a popular choice.

Meanwhile you can A: buy vet status and B: earn it, but you get nothing out of it unless you make a new char on non HC servers (which many don't do anymore at this point, I have tooooooooo many characters already). Make vet status worth it again.


Perhaps downgrade it to level 4 for level 7 vet (Since most will have vet 7 by the time the reincarnate a few times anyway), but make vet status do something for reincarnations.

Leave iconics alone meanwhile, there is a bonus and penalty for being an iconic, you have to get to 30 to reincarnate that way, but that trip is faster over all. It skips the early levels when you don't have tier 5 abilities etc, lets you start wearing some decent eq right away and just jump into epic content much faster. I think that is very worth doing and getting rid of that ability would suck.

[Tilomere]

I honestly suggest going the other way, instead of reducing the level iconics start at, allow VIP's to start new reincarnated characters at level 4/7 (veteran status). This reduces the advantage of iconics, speeds up the process of getting initial complitionist, and streamlines the game a bit (while giving a decent bonus to long term players for subbing).

They gave monk away for free to make a troll monk iconic rather than allow sorcs to start closer to cap, then started developing archtypes instead of iconics. SSG won't consider this because it reduces economic viability. A suggestion has to at least maintain economic viability, if not improve it.

[Septimus-Boldrei]

Having to spend more time to acquire an iconic past life would not make my game experience more enjoyable.
Being forced to play through the level span I find least fun (9-13) more often to acquire said past lives would not make my game experience more enjoyable.
This is a change that would make me far less likely to ever play an iconic character.

YMMV.

[droid327]

I honestly dont understand what you're trying to write, what you think the problem is, or how you think your solution makes anything better...but I'm convinced its a thoroughly bad idea lol

[Wahnsinnig]

I honestly dont understand what you're trying to write, what you think the problem is, or how you think your solution makes anything better...but I'm convinced its a thoroughly bad idea lol

This. OP's post does not make any sense to me.

Also, you can stop levelling your iconic and start playing it at any level you want between 1 and 15.

[rabidfox]

Would starting Iconics at 7 on subsequent lives would enable a more enjoyable game?

No.

[Oxarhamar]

Right now game monetization includes selling xp in the form of boxes, potions, guild and other boosts.

To drive that monetization, a carrot and stick method of balance, where a player is punished until whether through time and/or money they have paid to get to a rewarding cap experience.

Among other issues this leads to a bad class and archetype experience, where anything that can be built out of an iconic needs to relatively suck enough to increase the value of xp monetization to compensate for starting half way to cap which devalues that monetization.

This includes any ranged build since due to universal trees they can be built out of any iconic, as well as any leveling melee build, which due to 18/1 iconic/1 divine might can also be built out of any iconic

One solution is to push iconics back on subsequent lives to start at level 7 instead of 15. This will preserve the monetization of the game due to having nearer to the same distance as a starting at 1 dps caster (dragonborn or tiefling sorc for example, or warlock, alc, etc.), which will allow closer to dps arcane leveling ability for other archtypes. This will allow other ranged builds, and iconic builds that aren't just troll builds to group together on a more even footing, since they will all have a more even requirement for xp monetization to get to cap rewards.

We can take all iconic 15 starting gear and just cut the stats on it in half for the 7 gear set, and start them in the marketplace like other veteran characters. This also means iconics in the future will no longer be required to be bad troll builds, and eliminate pressure to use iconics to get to cap and open up using any race/class combo a person actually wants to play. Yes, some iconic abilities are powerful, but those are all easily gated by having ranks available at level 5, 10, and 15, such as reconstruct SLA, which would also bring better balance to hardcore.

To buff such builds to be closer to on-par with the sorcs that they now start closer in level with, we could then eliminate the 42 epic/legendary power, and distribute it 2/lvl in heroics.

You already can start Iconics at 7 just don’t take those levels

I’ve done it with Iconic starting at 1 to run in a static group with friends who were playing heroic

No need to change the game for something that is already able to be done by the player


Starting Iconics at lower levels and removing the race class combo defeats the entire purpose of Iconic

If you want to play outside of that class race combo then use a +1 heart

[Oxarhamar]

They gave monk away for free to make a troll monk iconic rather than allow sorcs to start closer to cap, then started developing archtypes instead of iconics. SSG won't consider this because it reduces economic viability. A suggestion has to at least maintain economic viability, if not improve it.

Allowing VIP to start at 4 could be good economical if it got players to sub

It’s pretty much what gold rolls did anyway without giving away the tomes & other goodies etc…

[Phatlewts]

We can take all iconic 15 starting gear and just cut the stats on it in half for the 7 gear set,

I also haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. However, this is even more wierd. So you want to take the level 15 ionic gear, which is hot garbage and create level 7 hot garbage? Is that correct?

[Bunker]

One solution is to push iconics back on subsequent lives to start at level 7 instead of 15.

You are already capable of starting any iconic character at any level below 15.

And if you require lower level starting gear for you iconic, may I suggest visiting korthos or borderlands.

[Eantarus]

Iconics are in a weird place.

When originally introduced, they were designed to let players start near cap(when cap was 20), with decent starting equipment and good stats. Everything about iconics was designed around starting at 15, so any lower level wouldn't work well.

The problem is since introduction, "cap" has gone from 20 on up to 32, and power creep has made all iconic gear only very marginally better than being naked(for reference: about 80% of iconic starter gear's "value" is purely cosmetic, in that the starter cosmetic has better stats than most of the gear combined).

This is why I think they are moving away from iconics and into archetypes.

What we really need now is some kind of "Epic Iconic" that starts at 28.

[Oxarhamar]

Iconics are in a weird place.

When originally introduced, they were designed to let players start near cap(when cap was 20), with decent starting equipment and good stats. Everything about iconics was designed around starting at 15, so any lower level wouldn't work well.

The problem is since introduction, "cap" has gone from 20 on up to 32, and power creep has made all iconic gear only very marginally better than being naked(for reference: about 80% of iconic starter gear's "value" is purely cosmetic, in that the starter cosmetic has better stats than most of the gear combined).

This is why I think they are moving away from iconics and into archetypes.

What we really need now is some kind of "Epic Iconic" that starts at 28.

Cap was not 20 when Iconic hit it was 28 & Iconic was intended to get players into Epics sooner

[droid327]

Cap was not 20 when Iconic hit it was 28 & Iconic was intended to get players into Epics sooner

Lol yeah I wish you could've just ITRed at 20 back to 15 and got a heroic life lol

[arkonas]

Iconics are in a weird place.

When originally introduced, they were designed to let players start near cap(when cap was 20), with decent starting equipment and good stats. Everything about iconics was designed around starting at 15, so any lower level wouldn't work well.

The problem is since introduction, "cap" has gone from 20 on up to 32, and power creep has made all iconic gear only very marginally better than being naked(for reference: about 80% of iconic starter gear's "value" is purely cosmetic, in that the starter cosmetic has better stats than most of the gear combined).

This is why I think they are moving away from iconics and into archetypes.

What we really need now is some kind of "Epic Iconic" that starts at 28.

when iconics hit with menace of the underdark cap was 25 not 20. then raised to 28 then 30. iconics do Not have to go to 32. so not sure where that misinformation is coming from. just like epics they both go at 30.

[wolfy42]

I mean, most TR'd chars have better eq than the iconic starting eq right away (usually set gear etc). At that point you have feywild/Dread/Ravenloft and are even able to wear Sharn eq.....Iconic starting eq is pretty much a joke.

Many also don't take the last level 15 as an iconic since you can do Ravenloft Reaper at 14 (first half). Doing Rloft with the exp bonus at the end gets you almost to 17 and sharn finishes it off.

I think iconics are fine the way they are. IF you wanna add another possible bonus to VIP, start all Iconic characters with a free +1 heart of wood instead of the normal heart of wood if VIP (Bound to character).

As far as not having non-iconics reincarnate into vet 4, I think that doesn't really detract from iconics at all, huge diff between 4 and 15.
Reincarnating at 4 just skips baby quests, and lets you just do the 1-3 quests you really want (no point on korthos island since no reaper at all for instance). This would easily stop most of the complaints about gold rolls being gone I think, and it just streamlines the game for older players a bit. It's not a huge diff (you can go from 1-4 in an hour or at most 2 even with 3+ reincarnations easy).

The only thing I would do is consider giving iconics an actually useful real iconic piece of equipment that is bound to character and has it's only set bonus (level 15 min level). 1 piece in a different slot per iconic, so ifyou reincarnate as all the iconics you can have an actually useful and cool iconic set for that character on creation going forward. That would actually be super cool and would inspire people to focus on getting iconic past lives AND buying all the iconic characters. That could make SSG more money and add something cool in the game for us to shoot for.

It wouldn't be over powered (not even epic gear) but it could be strong enough to push you through 23 or so (about as good as sharn eq basically, but with a full 9 piece set (more bonuses the more pieces). 2 rings,ammy/belt/gloves/helm/boots/bracers/trinket.

[Eantarus]

I mean, most TR'd chars have better eq than the iconic starting eq right away (usually set gear etc). At that point you have feywild/Dread/Ravenloft and are even able to wear Sharn eq.....Iconic starting eq is pretty much a joke.

Most kobalds have better starting equipment than iconics.

If you went on the plat AH and bought 12 random pieces of equipment it would be better than iconic starters.

The really scary part is when they made the new iconic... they somehow managed to give it gear on par with the old iconics. It takes a lot of work to design equipment that terrible.

[Tilomere]

when iconics hit with menace of the underdark cap was 25 not 20. then raised to 28 then 30. iconics do Not have to go to 32. so not sure where that misinformation is coming from. just like epics they both go at 30.

As the cap increases, the value of being an iconic relative to just being a sorc has gone down, and the complaints about melee being in a bad place due to leveling differential, ranged being in a bad place due to same, even warlocks (lolz?) being in a bad place relative to a sorc keeps going up. Part of that differential is that Sorc does have to level from 1, or pay for a +1 heart to capstone, so Sorc has to level much faster than a melee which can 18/1/1 an iconic at start at 15. We could shrink some of that differential if all those iconics also had to level up starting closer to the Sorc at 1 on subsequent lives.

Gear is just an afterthought of that idea.

What I'm getting as response here though is that everyone would rather start at 15 than level closer to a sorc.

[wolfy42]

As the cap increases, the value of being an iconic relative to just being a sorc has gone down, and the complaints about melee being in a bad place due to leveling differential, ranged being in a bad place due to same, even warlocks (lolz?) being in a bad place relative to a sorc keeps going up. Part of that differential is that Sorc does have to level from 1, or pay for a +1 heart to capstone, so Sorc has to level much faster than a melee which can 18/1/1 an iconic at start at 15. We could shrink some of that differential if all those iconics also had to level up starting closer to the Sorc at 1 on subsequent lives.

Gear is just an afterthought of that idea.

What I'm getting as response here though is that everyone would rather start at 15 than level closer to a sorc.

I mean you can do a Shad 18/2 sorc for instance and end game use a +3 heart if you really care/plan on not reincarnating for awhile. Gives you trapping abilities and really doesn't slow down your kill speed at least getting through reincarnating much.

For non re-incarnations, if it's actually a first life, you can start at 7, and of course you don't have the exp penalties so you are just gonna freaking fly through the leveling process anyway (especially as a sorc).

Another possible alternative is a bit weird, but you could do a tabaxi 2 monk/18 sorc, which gives you 2 free feats as well, and will be a freaking super fast character without giving up too much damage. You lose the ability to bypass elemental immunities etc, which sucks, but you can get around that especially with epic spells eventually. Sorc still will kill insanely fast with it's cast times, still have a freakton of spell points, but you will also move like a freaking blur if you go all the way down the tabaxi tree and have spring attack + constant movement speed boost. Combine with Air savant (along with spring attack) and it would be a good combination.

[Oxarhamar]

As the cap increases, the value of being an iconic relative to just being a sorc has gone down, and the complaints about melee being in a bad place due to leveling differential, ranged being in a bad place due to same, even warlocks (lolz?) being in a bad place relative to a sorc keeps going up. Part of that differential is that Sorc does have to level from 1, or pay for a +1 heart to capstone, so Sorc has to level much faster than a melee which can 18/1/1 an iconic at start at 15. We could shrink some of that differential if all those iconics also had to level up starting closer to the Sorc at 1 on subsequent lives.

Gear is just an afterthought of that idea.

What I'm getting as response here though is that everyone would rather start at 15 than level closer to a sorc.

Once you go to 32 once you only have to go to 30

Sorc can’t get heroic & Iconic lives at once unless you want Sorc heroic PL & go Iconic

You already can start Iconic at 1 if you wanted