Hardcore Dilemma

[Grayhawke_Blackmoor]

Okay, I have decided to chime in on hardcore servers. I think many folks are missing the point. I do not like the live servers. I don't like the fact that it is near impossible to form a full group to party up. I don't like the fact that almost every person I party with there is in such a hurry they don't wait for anyone. All the long-time players are triple completionists and there is no way for a first life toon to keep up, and they don't care. I enjoy this game in a party setting ONLY. If I wanted to play by myself I would not invest thousands of dollars on equipment, VIP, for a MMORPG where everyone seeks to build toons that can do it all and need no one else.
I've seen others posting about how if hardcore goes permanent then they will leave the game. MANY of us don't bother with the game unless it is hardcore, and I for one am disgusted by the behavior of folks on regular servers. It seems obvious to me that on the live server on Argo today we had 5 members on line, while on hardcore we had over 100, now why would anyone want to break that?
I am let down by the VIP benefits. I am direct deposit VIP and every month it makes less sense for me to continue paying, and now no daily gold rolls, a real drag.
On a final note I would like to shout out to the Dev's. You guys (& gals) ROCK! How you manage to keep this machine rollin' along is a mystery. This game is magical. It makes little sense that such an outdated format should still be the best MMORPG out there, but alas here we are. Dungeons and Dragons will always be the first true RPG to meet with prolonged success and such loyal fan support and no team could break that. Keep up the Great Work and know that many of us want a permanent hardcore server and a live server merge MUST be in the discussions. There is no reason to let this game just fizzle out due to problems that can easily be solved.
And to all you folks complaining, go back to the live servers, you don't wait for us to join you anyways so no need to complain about server population. No need to be upset cuz your bloody footprints aren't so rare.

[Smelt32]

Okay, I have decided to chime in on hardcore servers. I think many folks are missing the point. I do not like the live servers. I don't like the fact that it is near impossible to form a full group to party up. I don't like the fact that almost every person I party with there is in such a hurry they don't wait for anyone. All the long-time players are triple completionists and there is no way for a first life toon to keep up, and they don't care. I enjoy this game in a party setting ONLY. If I wanted to play by myself I would not invest thousands of dollars on equipment, VIP, for a MMORPG where everyone seeks to build toons that can do it all and need no one else.
I've seen others posting about how if hardcore goes permanent then they will leave the game. MANY of us don't bother with the game unless it is hardcore, and I for one am disgusted by the behavior of folks on regular servers. It seems obvious to me that on the live server on Argo today we had 5 members on line, while on hardcore we had over 100, now why would anyone want to break that?
I am let down by the VIP benefits. I am direct deposit VIP and every month it makes less sense for me to continue paying, and now no daily gold rolls, a real drag.
On a final note I would like to shout out to the Dev's. You guys (& gals) ROCK! How you manage to keep this machine rollin' along is a mystery. This game is magical. It makes little sense that such an outdated format should still be the best MMORPG out there, but alas here we are. Dungeons and Dragons will always be the first true RPG to meet with prolonged success and such loyal fan support and no team could break that. Keep up the Great Work and know that many of us want a permanent hardcore server and a live server merge MUST be in the discussions. There is no reason to let this game just fizzle out due to problems that can easily be solved.
And to all you folks complaining, go back to the live servers, you don't wait for us to join you anyways so no need to complain about server population. No need to be upset cuz your bloody footprints aren't so rare.

Well, I really think it might just be you that is missing the point my friend. You are, on the one hand, asking for a merge of the live servers, and on the other hand asking for another live server to be added. For a permanent HC server would just be another live server. Without the seasons, there wouldn't be the rewards for favour, reaper and levelling to 20 beyond what you get for doing these things on the other servers, because if the server is permanent then.... no seasons. Because there are no rewards and no time constraints people wouldn't flock onto that server like they do now. Most people go to the HC server when it is up for one of two reasons.... either to try and get the latest seasons cosmetic rewards, or to store the daily dice xp stones and transfer them back to their main server at the end. If the server is permanent, there wouldn't be free transfers either.

If you want to know what a permanent HC server would look like in reality.... Just pick any live server you like and play on it perma death style. and if you want to know what the population of such a server would be like.... thnk back (or ask around if you weren't playing then) and ask your self how many people were playing perma death before HC server came out? Yeah there were a few on each server but not very many, and the overall population was much bigger then. If there is a permanent HC server I reckon six months after the start of it, it would be the lowest populated server and it's entire population will be on hear asking to go back seasonal HC servers.

[Martininice]

Pettiness masquerading as righteousness. Boring. That format has been overplayed for ages.

[archest]

he's right in that the hardcore server population blows live servers away in lfm grouping at level.
arguing about who should have to post zerg or no zerg I the lfm on the live servers is the same point he's making.
as zerging tends to be the norm for certain players its not rude to join a group and zerg to the end while the group itself is pacing at group .
but since it is not there lfm they should read the group regardless of their assumption.
certainly the live server population is a major problem when HC is 10 x as populas when its is active as the live servers are.
and there are no difference in lag issues.

we will see if this server transfer issue doesn't create more problems.
or weren't merging several other servers once it happens because of such a low population once it does.
there are far too many server based losses for the guild ship and such i think that ill push people in this hypothetical free transfer option up coming which may warrant at that time he allowance a guild transfers solution after words.
( dropping a few shards remaining in your server characters account to move to a more populas server is not the issue ( you lose them if you buy them on he HC server anyway)

HC since everyone starts off with no past life's is more origin in nature for the game play designed by the dev at conception.
I do think the idea 1 size fits all is getting away from the lore of the dungeons and dragons game concept.

zerger runs though the quest argoing all the monsters and ruining the sneak attack and sneak and hide effects of the rogue class.
setting off traps so that now the rogue must jump through them as active and taking damage in reaper without self healing and the zerger could care less about it.
so zergers should post there own lfm when i join an lfm i dont do my own thing it not my lfm .
after all why did you join my lfm if you can solo it your self?

[Coffey]

You are not alone. A lot of people just want a player base to play with.

I play HCL just for the fun of playing on a populated server.

I am waiting for a new concept server to appear that is not HC and has no hamster wheels and a divided player base.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Three fantastic features of hardcore - many groups, a slower more helpful player base, and no one character blows away the kill count so everyone feels like a useful part of the gaming group. These parameters are not possible on the current game servers unless you're playing in a static group. Merging servers would help but it still wouldn't address the problem of having 3rd life characters trying to group and contribute with 97th-life characters.

[Diracorvus]

Three fantastic features of hardcore - many groups, a slower more helpful player base, and no one character blows away the kill count so everyone feels like a useful part of the gaming group. These parameters are not possible on the current game servers unless you're playing in a static group. Merging servers would help but it still wouldn't address the problem of having 3rd life characters trying to group and contribute with 97th-life characters.

Unless it's a new server where past lives give no stat bonuses. Although racial past lives and epic past lives are the worst offenders really. And there is no way to ever balance it out on the live servers, because you can't take people's toys away. Sad.

[Wahnsinnig]

Copying my answer from another thread on this topic:

I honestly think that the people that want a permanent hardcore server does not understand what that would be like.

Most people do not want to play permanently on the hardcore server, they play it for the season rewards. When a hardcore server starts up everyone starts at lvl 1 at the same time, and there are lots of groups at the same level. Then as weeks go by people get their rewards and stop playing. People go back to their main servers and work on their main characters.

A permanent hardcore server would only have a few active players after a while, it would be less populated than Wayfinder. There would be very few groups going, and often not in your level range. It would not be anything like when the new hardcore servers start up now.

It will not be what you want it to be.

[Grayhawke_Blackmoor]

This may seem way off the wall, but here's a possible solution.
First I will say it may not be possible but it may get others thinking and who knows.
How about if the servers were set up so first life characters are restricted to certain servers. Other servers become available only as they are unlocked, a kind of tier system. The game has so many servers and no rhyme to the reason. They are just different.
So, a server for first lifers, one for second , one for third, one for etc. you get it. Maybe not 1 every life but break it down so the completionists aren't grouping with first lifers.
I agree with all of the replies above, and I am not here to complain, I am just trying to interject constructive criticism.
Thanks all for responding, I have every confidence that this game will continue to grow, (as long as we keep throwing money at it), and none of the problems we have in game cant be solved.
I also agree that a permanent hardcore server would only make matters worse. I think it should be a seasonal thing but with little down time between seasons.

[Ereshkigal]

Okay, I have decided to chime in on hardcore servers. I think many folks are missing the point. I do not like the live servers. I don't like the fact that it is near impossible to form a full group to party up. I don't like the fact that almost every person I party with there is in such a hurry they don't wait for anyone. All the long-time players are triple completionists and there is no way for a first life toon to keep up, and they don't care. I enjoy this game in a party setting ONLY. If I wanted to play by myself I would not invest thousands of dollars on equipment, VIP, for a MMORPG where everyone seeks to build toons that can do it all and need no one else.
I've seen others posting about how if hardcore goes permanent then they will leave the game. MANY of us don't bother with the game unless it is hardcore, and I for one am disgusted by the behavior of folks on regular servers. It seems obvious to me that on the live server on Argo today we had 5 members on line, while on hardcore we had over 100, now why would anyone want to break that?
I am let down by the VIP benefits. I am direct deposit VIP and every month it makes less sense for me to continue paying, and now no daily gold rolls, a real drag.
On a final note I would like to shout out to the Dev's. You guys (& gals) ROCK! How you manage to keep this machine rollin' along is a mystery. This game is magical. It makes little sense that such an outdated format should still be the best MMORPG out there, but alas here we are. Dungeons and Dragons will always be the first true RPG to meet with prolonged success and such loyal fan support and no team could break that. Keep up the Great Work and know that many of us want a permanent hardcore server and a live server merge MUST be in the discussions. There is no reason to let this game just fizzle out due to problems that can easily be solved.
And to all you folks complaining, go back to the live servers, you don't wait for us to join you anyways so no need to complain about server population. No need to be upset cuz your bloody footprints aren't so rare.

It's very easy to get a full group on Argo, even during hardcore season. When hardcore isn't active there's so many groups to choose from you never have to start your own if u don't want to. At least that's been my experience.

Now, if you're saying you want to find a full group of people that want to go slow and explore every bit of the dungeon, well, I think that won't change no matter what you do.

Having a full time Hardcore server wouldn't solve the problem, because if Hardcore was full time, many of the benefits of Hardcore would no longer exist, unless you're just resetting the hardcore server every 3 months, but then where would you use those rewards? I think giving people a break from it periodically and them having a place to show off and enjoy the rewards is key to hardcore success.

[Scrag]

Can someone explain to me hardcore?

I loved grouping, but yes, people speed at 900 miles an hour, I am not geared with all the new stuff, and nobody ever actually announces/talks on open channels about looking for more.

While yes the social panel has group info, on sarlona you could ask 10 people and get maybe 1 response which might even be "im leaving" or "we are doing reaper" (which I cant do).

If hardcore has more people I would be interested in it, but I just don't know what that means.

[Sarandra]

Can someone explain to me hardcore?

I loved grouping, but yes, people speed at 900 miles an hour, I am not geared with all the new stuff, and nobody ever actually announces/talks on open channels about looking for more.

While yes the social panel has group info, on sarlona you could ask 10 people and get maybe 1 response which might even be "im leaving" or "we are doing reaper" (which I cant do).

If hardcore has more people I would be interested in it, but I just don't know what that means.

It's another server conveniently called "Hardcore". The thing you need to know about hardcore: if you die, your character is permanently dead.

[misterski]

This may seem way off the wall, but here's a possible solution.
First I will say it may not be possible but it may get others thinking and who knows.
How about if the servers were set up so first life characters are restricted to certain servers. Other servers become available only as they are unlocked, a kind of tier system. The game has so many servers and no rhyme to the reason. They are just different.
So, a server for first lifers, one for second , one for third, one for etc. you get it. Maybe not 1 every life but break it down so the completionists aren't grouping with first lifers.
I agree with all of the replies above, and I am not here to complain, I am just trying to interject constructive criticism.
Thanks all for responding, I have every confidence that this game will continue to grow, (as long as we keep throwing money at it), and none of the problems we have in game cant be solved.
I also agree that a permanent hardcore server would only make matters worse. I think it should be a seasonal thing but with little down time between seasons.

Yes, let's stratify the player base even more. Big fat no thank you.

[TedSandyman]

I prefer playing on the hardcore server. I have most of the rewards I am going to get this season, but I prefer hardcore and will stay here for most of the reasons given.

The thing I dislike most about the live servers are that mostly what is run is high reaper content now. Most LFMs are for high reaper. It just isn't fun getting one shot killed over and over. The gear grind, much of it raid gear, and the number of reaper points required, just make me want to give up.

I might get my reaper wings in a few years. I just don't have the time or patience to grind reaper xp the way some of you do.

Reaper was fun when it first started out. There were lots of R1 groups and people were going slow and taking it easy. But now, it is just as zergy as elite used to be. The difference is that now I cant, and really don't care to, keep up.

Hardcore gets back to the basics. There aren't many super ubers with all the past lives and all the high level gear. We all start with a level playing field. And yeah, there are certain builds that work better than others. But the differences are much smaller than live.

I personally don't care as much about the permadeath. I would simply like a server that starts over every so often and functions mostly like the live servers.

It would be nice if there were a bank in the Land of Lost Souls. I don't mind starting over. I mind losing all the stuff I gathered. I mean, is it too much to imagine that the party members saved the deads gear in order to give it to the next of kin?

[mbartol]

Hardcore gets back to the basics. There aren't many super ubers with all the past lives and all the high level gear. We all start with a level playing field. And yeah, there are certain builds that work better than others. But the differences are much smaller than live.

I personally don't care as much about the permadeath. I would simply like a server that starts over every so often and functions mostly like the live servers.

It would be nice if there were a bank in the Land of Lost Souls. I don't mind starting over. I mind losing all the stuff I gathered. I mean, is it too much to imagine that the party members saved the deads gear in order to give it to the next of kin?

I see a lot of posts where players prefer the level playing field and especially the grouping & social aspect of each HC season. It really seems like most of the people only tolerate the permadeath aspect in order to play in that environment. Permadeath is more of a hassle than a challenge, anyway, since it only serves to break up a group that is leveling together.

Perhaps SSG should offer a similar fresh-start type of server periodically (say a Summer League) without the “hardcore” permadeath gimmick. In order to maintain some of the danger aspect, a character that dies can be locked out for a day (or 18 hours). This way, players will still take care not to die, but are not forced to start back in Korthos. Dying would still make you miss out on that play-session.

As long as SSG doesn’t overdo the amount of time it’s active (like they are starting to do with the HC League money-grab). Maybe one session of each per year, or alternate only one per year.

[Wizard1406]

The thing I dislike most about the live servers are that mostly what is run is high reaper content now. Most LFMs are for high reaper. It just isn't fun getting one shot killed over and over. The gear grind, much of it raid gear, and the number of reaper points required, just make me want to give up.

Most runs are high reaper? What server and level range?

On Thelanis, heroic is usually R1 (maybe 2-4), epic R1-4, and in legendary some people run r1-4 with level range 20-32, others run R10 with lvl range 30-32.Some people run mid reaper too (30-32). And raids are usually hard (normal for THTH , R1 for older, easy raids, current raid tier PUGs on reaper less common)

[archest]

most I see are 1 r10 occasionally, I personally have never joined a R10 as I believe the only way is to be dependent on other players to task the quest per character definition.
one healing and another tanking and such as without that assistance it would be impossible for a 4th life characters past life bonus to mean anything other than potential dps from afar.
r6 is the highest I've ever played in which if I remember I was not the focus of attention and was able to hit from afar but however was a one shot kill and a burden to carry or rise several times.
comfortable in R4 if there's others to take argo , still a bit squishy with reaper hits.

maybe r1 on HC if the group is competent.
never solo .
always at base epic level meaning I'm level 10 the quest to be level 8 so I would be at level epic in the quest.
would be more comfortable R if I Had TR'd to 3rd life and had good equipment by then .

Reaper 10 is a live server game and static group event IMO.
but then I'm not TR number 106....good luck getting there in a HC event but i like it that its limited to an event and not permanent.

[yfernbottom]

I personally don't care as much about the permadeath. I would simply like a server that starts over every so often and functions mostly like the live servers.

I would really enjoy this too. Maybe tie all the rewards to rep tiers to force players to do a wide variety of quests. Keep the level range at which you can enter quests in place so that no-one can cheese the rep, everything has to be run at an appropriate level.

One of the things I enjoy about hardcore is doing a bunch of weird quests I rarely fool with on my main server any more. However there are some I still never run just because the chances of me getting murdered are way too high. There are also others that I will run but I limit myself to Hard solo. Give me a solid excuse to do TOEE on elite, no matter how many tries it takes.

It would be nice if there were a bank in the Land of Lost Souls. I don't mind starting over. I mind losing all the stuff I gathered. I mean, is it too much to imagine that the party members saved the deads gear in order to give it to the next of kin?

This would be a nice change of pace as well.

[Grayhawke_Blackmoor]

It is obvious to me that a very large "Majority" of the players of the game prefer the hardcore season's benefits you all have spoken of in all of the above posts.

Again, I would like to emphasize this is not meant to be complaints but input to the dev's and community and possibly give them some ideas. Keep 'em coming.

[Oxarhamar]

It is obvious to me that a very large "Majority" of the players of the game prefer the hardcore season's benefits you all have spoken of in all of the above posts.

Again, I would like to emphasize this is not meant to be complaints but input to the dev's and community and possibly give them some ideas. Keep 'em coming.

I wouldn’t equate this thread to be a very large majority of players