VIP vs Preferred Vs FTP

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

VIP is expensive and needs more to elevate it above the Preferred and FTP - it is a monthly pay out - the gold roll is a nice perk that adds value to VIP which suffers from the paradigm being constructed back years ago when the FTP model was created. It worked then, but games and the internet have matured. Many of the best VIP perks in other mmos offer unlimited storage. Could we have unlimited storage in DDO? In DDO Everything is so over-monetized and pay to use, money grabs like loot rerolls (don't get me started on how I hate chest rerolls) - what harm does a free VIP gold roll do? It doesn't provide anyone with any unfair advantages, all it does is say to the loyal players who pay, 'hey, thanks for subscribing, we appreciate you. Here's a little gift.'

[Sylvado]

VIP is expensive and needs more to elevate it above the Preferred and FTP - it is a monthly pay out - the gold roll is a nice perk that adds value to VIP which suffers from the paradigm being constructed back years ago when the FTP model was created. It worked then, but games and the internet have matured. Many of the best VIP perks in other mmos offer unlimited storage. Could we have unlimited storage in DDO? In DDO Everything is so monetized and pay to use - what harm does a free VIP gold roll do? It doesn't provide anyone with any unfair advantages, all it does is say to the loyal players who pay, 'hey, thanks for subscribing, we appreciate you. Here's a little gift.'

F2P was the worst thing that ever happened to online gaming.

[Eantarus]

F2P was the worst thing that ever happened to online gaming.

Yeah but its gotten so many more people into the games than pure subscription-based gaming.

[Halciet]

Nothing quite like using a discovery potion, rolling the wrong item in a chest then spending 45 shards to get nothing, and then doing it 7 more times.

Wonder if they ever considered giving VIP the first reroll for "free" Probably too OP

[Captain_Wizbang]

- what harm does a free VIP gold roll do? It doesn't provide anyone with any unfair advantages, all it does is say to the loyal players who pay, 'hey, thanks for subscribing, we appreciate you. Here's a little gift.'

[Eantarus]

Really sad someone pulled the plug on the daily dice. WTG SSG.

Did they? I got my daily gold role about an hour ago when I logged in on HCL(free transfers, baby!). My game client is now broken so I can't tell if its working or not on my actual server.

[songswrath]

Nothing quite like using a discovery potion, rolling the wrong item in a chest then spending 45 shards to get nothing, and then doing it 7 more times.

Wonder if they ever considered giving VIP the first reroll for "free" Probably too OP

i like this nice add. also gold daily's for vip need to stay to add to that some kind of reward for logging every day for 7 days is cool too. maybe free pick of things random or say a 10k exp gem.

[DreamingReality]

So, every month VIP players get 500 free DDO points, which normally cost $7.99. Since VIP is $9.99, the extra $2.00 is what you are paying to get XP boosts, extra bank and character slots, the ability to list more items at once on the shard exchange, the ability to create a new character and instantly have heroic elite available without searching for someone to open for you or without slogging through 20 levels, reincarnating, slogging through another 20 levels, reincarnating again, instant access to all new quest packs without forking over any of those DDO points...PLUS you get your weekly gold rolls. For $2.00, that seems like a whole lot of value to me.

[SavageDoom]

So, every month VIP players get 500 free DDO points, which normally cost $7.99. Since VIP is $9.99, the extra $2.00 is what you are paying to get XP boosts, extra bank and character slots, the ability to list more items at once on the shard exchange, the ability to create a new character and instantly have heroic elite available without searching for someone to open for you or without slogging through 20 levels, reincarnating, slogging through another 20 levels, reincarnating again, instant access to all new quest packs without forking over any of those DDO points...PLUS you get your weekly gold rolls. For $2.00, that seems like a whole lot of value to me.

^^^
Absolutely agreed.

[Eantarus]

So, every month VIP players get 500 free DDO points, which normally cost $7.99. Since VIP is $9.99, the extra $2.00 is what you are paying to get XP boosts, extra bank and character slots, the ability to list more items at once on the shard exchange, the ability to create a new character and instantly have heroic elite available without searching for someone to open for you or without slogging through 20 levels, reincarnating, slogging through another 20 levels, reincarnating again, instant access to all new quest packs without forking over any of those DDO points...PLUS you get your weekly gold rolls. For $2.00, that seems like a whole lot of value to me.

Most of that is not much value at all. Let's consider:

-XP boost? 10% is laughable. Value: maybe 5 cents? That's being generous.

-Extra Bank and Character Slots? Again its a paltry amount and even worse you only need all of that space because the devs refuse to sell/provide for unlock anywhere near enough space to play the game comfortably. Value: negative dollars, that space is a fraction of what's naturally missing from the game.

-Ability to list items? The game has no economy. Value: $0.

-Open on Elite? Given how few first-lifers are left in the game(new players come. They don't stay.) this is a very little-used feature. I guess it sells hardcore? Permadeath is dumb so I don't play. Value: 10 cents, if you're new.

-Instant access to new quest packs? They release 1 pack a year now that's not a paid xpac or "mini" xpac. That new pack is maybe $7 depending on points sales. Averaged out over 12 months. Value: 58 cents.

-Weekly gold roles? 1000 XP and some free plat. Value: $0.


There you have it. The entirety of VIP is $0.73 a month, if you're new to the game.

I'm not an economist but paying $2.00 for 73 cents worth of goods and services seems like a bad buy to me.

[Halciet]

So, every month VIP players get 500 free DDO points, which normally cost $7.99. Since VIP is $9.99, the extra $2.00 is what you are paying to get XP boosts, extra bank and character slots, the ability to list more items at once on the shard exchange, the ability to create a new character and instantly have heroic elite available without searching for someone to open for you or without slogging through 20 levels, reincarnating, slogging through another 20 levels, reincarnating again, instant access to all new quest packs without forking over any of those DDO points...PLUS you get your weekly gold rolls. For $2.00, that seems like a whole lot of value to me.

Personally I agree that VIP is worth the money, because if nothing else I enjoy the game and prefer it to continue existing.

Some people don't care about extra character slots because the game is highly "main" focused. Those same people probably don't care about elite opens (outside of Hardcore) because they are TR.

If the only thing that is valuable to you is the points then it is the worst way to get them.
$7.99 is 600 Points and that is the lowest purchase. ~6.66 for 500
$199.99 at double bonus points is 33500 -> ~$2.99 for 500
VIP ranges from ~$8.25 to $14.99 for 500

[Phoenicis]

Most of that is not much value at all. Let's consider:

-XP boost? 10% is laughable. Value: maybe 5 cents? That's being generous.

Really? Tell that to all the people buying xp-pots for ddostore points and them complaining incessantly about things that 'waste' their precious pot timer

-Extra Bank and Character Slots? Again its a paltry amount and even worse you only need all of that space because the devs refuse to sell/provide for unlock anywhere near enough space to play the game comfortably. Value: negative dollars, that space is a fraction of what's naturally missing from the game.

Your opinion only, I value those slots immensely as I have a severe case of altitus and enjoy skipping from one build to another just to be doing something different.

-Ability to list items? The game has no economy. Value: $0.

Again, disagree, I often look for items on the AH to fill in a gap I need in my gear if I can't craft it for some reason or other.

-Open on Elite? Given how few first-lifers are left in the game(new players come. They don't stay.) this is a very little-used feature. I guess it sells hardcore? Permadeath is dumb so I don't play. Value: 10 cents, if you're new.

ROFL!
Make a new character on a premium account and tell me that again.

-Instant access to new quest packs? They release 1 pack a year now that's not a paid xpac or "mini" xpac. That new pack is maybe $7 depending on points sales. Averaged out over 12 months. Value: 58 cents.

You opinion again, and I disagree. Again.

-Weekly gold roles? 1000 XP and some free plat. Value: $0.

Silver roll is 3AS, Gold is 15AS. While most of the non exp rewards are junk, there are some highly desired ones that you can get no other way.

There you have it. The entirety of VIP is $0.73 a month, if you're new to the game.

I'm not an economist but paying $2.00 for 73 cents worth of goods and services seems like a bad buy to me.

In Your Opinion. In others opinion, the $10 per month spent on VIP is well worth it. I play 2-3 hours a night most nights, more, sometimes alot more, during HC. You can not show me a non-free source of entertainment that is a better value for the money.

[Knightrose]

So, every month VIP players get 500 free DDO points, which normally cost $7.99. Since VIP is $9.99, the extra $2.00 is what you are paying to get XP boosts, extra bank and character slots, the ability to list more items at once on the shard exchange, the ability to create a new character and instantly have heroic elite available without searching for someone to open for you or without slogging through 20 levels, reincarnating, slogging through another 20 levels, reincarnating again, instant access to all new quest packs without forking over any of those DDO points...PLUS you get your weekly gold rolls. For $2.00, that seems like a whole lot of value to me.

Do not be offended but that's how a business properly makes a sucker. The most important part of your argument that you failed to demonstrate is that they the company set the value. Vegas isn't broke for this incredibly simple tactic.

Over time the subscriber is getting less not more. It is also less interesting and less useful which is why many of us feel we are not getting our money's worth. Your real value is how you, I or anyone value our time spent with the service. The service is weak for the price.

[mbartol]

It’s obvious that the value placed on VIP perks varies among the player base, but it’s SSG’s task to present value to entice a wide variety of users. This is certainly a difficult task, since you can’t please everyone. Maybe create a variety of VIP packages aimed at different audiences, or even a list of perks for subscribers to select from. Possibly even bundle up “full access” to include ALL content and perks.

The fact is that there are plenty of players that don’t see enough value in the current offering, so SSG should be focused on bringing those players in as subscribers. Adding more value will just be gravy for the players that already value the current VIP.

[cmecu]

Yeah but its gotten so many more people into the games than pure subscription-based gaming.

yup and companies really hit the nail on the head, because the micro transactions is a smart way to still get peoples money. Just not this game, but just about any game these days has some kind of micro transactions. Even simple games on the phone like say Candy Crush, or Summoners war, Diablo Immortal .. Texas Holdem.. SLots... whatever.. all of them have some kind of buy something with real money to get virtual something.. in a world of what 8 billion people its not hard getting a couple millions people paying for some game.

[Halciet]

yup and companies really hit the nail on the head, because the micro transactions is a smart way to still get peoples money. Just not this game, but just about any game these days has some kind of micro transactions. Even simple games on the phone like say Candy Crush, or Summoners war, Diablo Immortal .. Texas Holdem.. SLots... whatever.. all of them have some kind of buy something with real money to get virtual something.. in a world of what 8 billion people its not hard getting a couple millions people paying for some game.

Quite glad DDO has not entered into the common modern microtransactions. Can you imagine if we had a stamina meter that depleted as you ran quests, but you could buy more stamina...

[Nebless]

Originally Posted by Sylvado
F2P was the worst thing that ever happened to online gaming.

Yeah but its gotten so many more people into the games than pure subscription-based gaming.

It's also what kept DDO alive, since the very first major game to go to the subscriber to F2p model was DDO. LotRO followed after Turbine saw that the new system was a money maker.

[Kza]

The nice daily gold takes away tomorrow. Hopefully they have an even better and funnier perk as a surprise for 2023? :-)
Lets see tomorrow if some good perk(s)come to VIPS in excange for the daily gold.

[yfernbottom]

I have really been enjoying the daily gold rolls. It gives me a good reason to log in every day even if I don't have time to do much but plan for the next time I have some spare time. It keeps me engaged with the game.

Apart from that VIP, doesn't really give me much that I care about. I already own almost all the content permanently, so for me Premium is nearly identical to VIP.

Any character on their third life on can open any quest at whatever difficulty I like. It's nice for opening stuff on hardcore, but once I hit whatever my goal for a given season is I immediately have been cancelling in the past, and hardcore is literally the only time I have been subbing. However last HC season I found I enjoyed the daily gold rolls enough to keep my sub going even after it ended and I was back to playing multi life characters on my home server.

So my advice to SSG would be to make daily gold rolls a permanent feature of a sub. They have been doing it all year and it didn't break the game. It seems like an odd choice to annoy us by taking it away now that we have gotten used to it. Most FtP MMOs bend over backwards to give you a reason to log every day.

Now there are other things they could do. Most sub optional MMOs have a system where you earn loging rewards every day that aren't random. ESO has one of the better versions of that kind of system, but the majority of FtP MMOs I have tried recently have something like that. They don't do it becuase they are stupid or charitable. If SSG wants to roll out a system like that to replace daily gold rolls, it might even be better. For example, put cosmetic rewards we can work towards on an in game advent calendar. However since SSG will likely do no such thing, simply leaving a switch turned on seems like a good alternative . . .

[axel15810]

I always liked the idea of adding a "VIP Lounge" and I'll continue to pitch this idea.

Have it be special public area that requires VIP to enter. Add it as a teleport location. Put in there all relevant vendors of all types, all saga givers and perhaps even event vendors in there year round. Jazz it up as well and put some fun stuff in there like some cool artwork, a snowpeaks esque VIP obstacle course for funsies, test kobolds with tons of HP for testing, raid/harder quest puzzles for VIPs to practice or play with and probably a bunch of other stuff I am likely not thinking of. Shouldn't take too much dev effort, wouldn't be power creepy and would incentivize VIP with lots of added convenience.