VIP vs Preferred Vs FTP

[Assassination]

Last Year, What should we add to Vip to make it worthwile???

SSG 2023, Yeah we'll have none of that. Pay Vip and like it, we not giving you nothing. Brilliant.

SSG you sucked in 2022, keep it up.

[Impaqt]

So, every month VIP players get 500 free DDO points, which normally cost $7.99. Since VIP is $9.99, the extra $2.00 is what you are paying to get XP boosts, extra bank and character slots, the ability to list more items at once on the shard exchange, the ability to create a new character and instantly have heroic elite available without searching for someone to open for you or without slogging through 20 levels, reincarnating, slogging through another 20 levels, reincarnating again, instant access to all new quest packs without forking over any of those DDO points...PLUS you get your weekly gold rolls. For $2.00, that seems like a whole lot of value to me.

Its actually more like $4 for 500 points if you are buying like most people.

[Marshal_Lannes]

VIP needs to have value. Everyone agrees on that from players to developers. The daily gold rolls were a bandaid. I'm fine with it going away for a while, I've run out of places to store the XP stones anyway. But VIP still needs value. As I've said on this topic for years now, the XP bonus should be increased to 25% - that is basically the industry standard for VIP/subscription. After that, whatever, I'm fine with another bandaid then gold rolls coming back in the fall.

[Maldorin]

Quite glad DDO has not entered into the common modern microtransactions. Can you imagine if we had a stamina meter that depleted as you ran quests, but you could buy more stamina...

Not too dissimilar: There are way too many quests with too few shrines which strongly incentivises purchasing mana pots. In game drops are rare, maybe get a few here and there. And maybe it's my imagination but I feel sometimes that lost souls in reaper aren't showing up as much as they used to as well.

[Halciet]

Not too dissimilar: There are way too many quests with too few shrines which strongly incentivises purchasing mana pots. In game drops are rare, maybe get a few here and there. And maybe it's my imagination but I feel sometimes that lost souls in reaper aren't showing up as much as they used to as well.

I have been of the opinion that "souls" should drop from reapers and perhaps do different things depending on what flavor of reaper dropped it. <- But off topic

[systemshaker1941]

VIP needs to have value. Everyone agrees on that from players to developers. The daily gold rolls were a bandaid. I'm fine with it going away for a while, I've run out of places to store the XP stones anyway. But VIP still needs value. As I've said on this topic for years now, the XP bonus should be increased to 25% - that is basically the industry standard for VIP/subscription. After that, whatever, I'm fine with another bandaid then gold rolls coming back in the fall.

The problem is they are not giving us another bandaid. They are taking away the one they did give us and letting the wound fester.

This is actually worse than if they'd done nothing.

[SilentRunning]

Whenever this topic has come up, I have always thought that the points amount was way too low, it should be more in line with what other companies offer for their subs in terms of store currency, I'll say it again, the points amount should be 1500 or greater per month.

As an example, it's 1650 crowns in ESO per month and as I do a 90-day subscription it comes out to 4950 crowns. SSG is far behind in this regard.

[Sylvado]

I'm not an economist

Well, there was some truth in the post.

[Epicsoul]

Last Year, What should we add to Vip to make it worthwile???

SSG 2023, Yeah we'll have none of that. Pay Vip and like it, we not giving you nothing. Brilliant.

SSG you sucked in 2022, keep it up.

I do expect we'll hear longterm plans for VIP in the future. However, it's a missed opportunity to inform players of this. The ending of gold rolls announcement should have included a "And stay tuned for exciting VIP news in the near future!" They suck so bad at so many things, but messaging/marketing is one of SSG's weakest points.

[Monkey_Archer]

Most of that is not much value at all. Let's consider:

-XP boost? 10% is laughable. Value: maybe 5 cents? That's being generous.

-Extra Bank and Character Slots? Again its a paltry amount and even worse you only need all of that space because the devs refuse to sell/provide for unlock anywhere near enough space to play the game comfortably. Value: negative dollars, that space is a fraction of what's naturally missing from the game.

-Ability to list items? The game has no economy. Value: $0.

-Open on Elite? Given how few first-lifers are left in the game(new players come. They don't stay.) this is a very little-used feature. I guess it sells hardcore? Permadeath is dumb so I don't play. Value: 10 cents, if you're new.

-Instant access to new quest packs? They release 1 pack a year now that's not a paid xpac or "mini" xpac. That new pack is maybe $7 depending on points sales. Averaged out over 12 months. Value: 58 cents.

-Weekly gold roles? 1000 XP and some free plat. Value: $0.


There you have it. The entirety of VIP is $0.73 a month, if you're new to the game.

I'm not an economist but paying $2.00 for 73 cents worth of goods and services seems like a bad buy to me.

If its your opinion that all the VIP benefits have no value why not just become a premium player?


I suspect the reason most people don't is that they have become accustomed to all the VIP benefits and take them for granted... but upon doing research into what it actually costs to play as premium, VIP looks like a much better value

For those considering, the bare minimum VIP value (assuming you have all favor unlocks and all content already) is:
- ~100 USD initial investment for character slots, races, classes, shared bank, etc...
- ~4 USD per month in DDO points using the best value
- ~12 USD per month to run 10% xp pots for 5 hours a day (could be more or less depending on how much you play)
- plus all the other benefits that don't have a direct DDO store equivalent

So even if you only value the xp bonus, VIP is basically free

[misterski]

Obviously, if you're still paying for VIP then it is of some value to you. Otherwise you wouldn't be paying for it anymore, right?

[mikarddo]

Not too dissimilar: There are way too many quests with too few shrines which strongly incentivises purchasing mana pots. In game drops are rare, maybe get a few here and there. And maybe it's my imagination but I feel sometimes that lost souls in reaper aren't showing up as much as they used to as well.

Do you solo alot? In a group or even just duoing I almost never have to use a pot and I often skip more shrines than I use. Even soloing I can do most quests without running out of SP.

Do you turn on all metamagics for all spells? That would be an issue for sure.

So, I rather disagree with your assesment.

[Ereshkigal]

Do you solo alot? In a group or even just duoing I almost never have to use a pot and I often skip more shrines than I use. Even soloing I can do most quests without running out of SP.

Do you turn on all metamagics for all spells? That would be an issue for sure.

So, I rather disagree with your assesment.

Yeah, even running racial lives with a cleric, I use 1 shrine per quest at most. Usually none at all.

[Deathromancer]

Sad to see the daily gold roll gone, When your a grown adult with a good job the price of VIP is nothing to you, and buying more stuff from astral shards to augments and pots from DDO store easily exceeds the monthly VIP fee, and when you also buy the most expensive versions of the expansion, have already purchased all the bank and inventory options for your account and you have been playing long enough where plats no longer an issue, then the only noticeable bonus for having VIP was heroic elite quest entry and the daily rolls as if your buying all the new stuff at max pack lvl you can enter those areas even if ftp. Most of the older content no longer drops gear thats comparable to new content drops and theres so many quest in game theres lots of quest and chains ppl don't even do anymore unless on hardcore and with the TR ED Train most ppl only focus on a few tunes so extra character slots are mostly used for storage and if you got bank and backpack expansions when on sale for storage purposes extra char slots are not that big of a deal anymore unless your a Hoarder (cough cough) Vip bonus is no big deal as a well built well geared tune witch most old players have can zerg thru quest so not a big impact there.

and xp bonus has zero impact on hardcore as you spend most of your time hardcapped if your playing for the favor anyway. so all that said the main benefit for me is the elite entry and the price of vip is the fee to access it. There really needs to be something more tangible as a VIP bonus, something that can not be bought in DDO store so the pay to win crowd can't clean up on it and it entices Ftp yo play vip, daily gold rolls and elite entry where two of the bigger draws to get ppl to play vip a lot of Harcore players got vip just for the daily gold rolls during event.

Cutting back on bonuses for vip and the constant nerfs are chipping away at the reason to pay a monthly fee, and this trend needs to be reversed, not accelerated. DDO can be such a fun game and has so much history to pull from for future expansions to game, but it needs to be more stable and stop going after success strategies targeted and benefits cut, Like the USA going after Oil Rich Nations!

I think if polls where done on forums and some of these changes where accessed here SSG would be shocked at how many ppl get annoyed or are dissatisfied with them , yet the same ppl keep making these decisions again and again, without concern of the customers feelings. Ive seen stuff nerfed over a minority of ppl complaining if they are loud enough or a main streamer supports the nerf. and this is not a good business model caving in to the loudest voice instead of polling your customer base and getting some true %s to support these changes.

I'm not saying you have to do a poll and listen to it, but doing highly publicized polls with only 1 poll per account will give you an idea of how many ppl your going to **** off and maybe get you to consider a compromise, instead of continually kicking us in the family jewels! this would give the silent majority the feeling that our opinion matters if it occasionally gets something truly unpleasant moderated to something only mildly annoying or heaven forbid something we actually like, enjoy and feel good about.

[FixBows]

So, every month VIP players get 500 free DDO points, which normally cost $7.99. Since VIP is $9.99, the extra $2.00 is what you are paying to get XP boosts, extra bank and character slots, the ability to list more items at once on the shard exchange, the ability to create a new character and instantly have heroic elite available without searching for someone to open for you or without slogging through 20 levels, reincarnating, slogging through another 20 levels, reincarnating again, instant access to all new quest packs without forking over any of those DDO points...PLUS you get your weekly gold rolls. For $2.00, that seems like a whole lot of value to me.

It's a comparative value. Other free to play games give you rewards just for logging in each day; and usually a monthly progressive reward that gets better each day or week or whatever. No subscription required. Also, it really does not matter what we think the value is, SSG has already stated back when the gold rolls were made daily, that they knew VIP was not up to par. Now, nearly a year later, all they have done is taken something away.

[Assassination]

I do expect we'll hear longterm plans for VIP in the future. However, it's a missed opportunity to inform players of this. The ending of gold rolls announcement should have included a "And stay tuned for exciting VIP news in the near future!" They suck so bad at so many things, but messaging/marketing is one of SSG's weakest points.

I don't really expect anything. When was the last time the producer actually "lowered" herself to communicate with the customers who pay for this game??

It seems to me that the last 2 years of garbage shovelled on us are an attempt to shutter the game, more than anything else. I really like this game and would like to see it be successful, but they seem hell bent on closing it down.

Maybe they think we'd all jump over to Lotro, for more of the same caca show.

[Wizard1406]

If its your opinion that all the VIP benefits have no value why not just become a premium player?


I suspect the reason most people don't is that they have become accustomed to all the VIP benefits and take them for granted... but upon doing research into what it actually costs to play as premium, VIP looks like a much better value

For those considering, the bare minimum VIP value (assuming you have all favor unlocks and all content already) is:
- ~100 USD initial investment for character slots, races, classes, shared bank, etc...
- ~4 USD per month in DDO points using the best value
- ~12 USD per month to run 10% xp pots for 5 hours a day (could be more or less depending on how much you play)
- plus all the other benefits that don't have a direct DDO store equivalent

So even if you only value the xp bonus, VIP is basically free

Yeah even without gold rolls VIP is still worth it.

5 hours a day xp'ing/rxp'ing is a huge amount though... most players probably do less than half. Plus you don't get rxp at cap doing raids below R1 and farming stuff no rxp for wilderness chest / elite farming, almost no rxp for low reaper quest farming repeats.

It's just that the industry standard is more like 20-25% extra xp and more store points or more points compared to cost - DDO store prices are inflated for many things IMHO. So most other MMOs with optional subs, have better perks.

[Deathromancer]

I don't really expect anything. When was the last time the producer actually "lowered" herself to communicate with the customers who pay for this game??

It seems to me that the last 2 years of garbage shovelled on us are an attempt to shutter the game, more than anything else. I really like this game and would like to see it be successful, but they seem hell bent on closing it down.

Maybe they think we'd all jump over to Lotro, for more of the same caca show.

If they do shut it down, I won't reward them by playing a different game they make, EA was the same way buying games then shutting them down and trying to get ppl to transfer to other EA games, after ppl realized that, theres a lot of ppl that won't play EA games anymore, because why play something that will possibly be shut down for the next big thing they roll out.

[SilentRunning]

I don't think it will shut down, then we'd have to go play that abomination that was made by perfect world/cryptic.

[wolfy42]

Honestly the value is there for some, but not for most long term players.

VIP offers by far the most for a new player that wants to try out the game. IF you play for any period of time (over a month), it generally makes more sense to buy a large bundle of DDO points while on sale/bonus and buy everything you actually want and be done with it.

I've subbed off and on since beta. Even with just DDO points I get every month (after FTP started) I have bought all the content. I bought the expanions (most of them) for cash directly (not Isle of dread/Saltmarsh). I don't sub because it gives me anything in my daily play (10% exp is nice though), but out of loyalty, which most of the people I have talked to have also said they do.

That being said, there are alot of people who DON'T currently sub and have not for awhile. Make VIP worth it, and more people will sub.

Gold rolls (in my opinion) were not worth it. The 10% exp is, opening quests on elite only helps a very very small percentage of players and people playing HC (and honestly it should just be standard on HC that everyone can do that, perhaps based on if they have ANY characters that have reincarnated twice on another server (easy enough to determine).

Movement speed no longer matters at all. Honestly the quest packs barely matter for the few that don't have them all unlocked already anyway (due to most of the paid non-free VIP quest chains like feywield etc being so much better anyway. You need Fey + Ravenloft + Sharn....gianthold tossed in there maybe, but how much (Free for VIP) content is really useful at this point?

500 DDO points has value, and you can choose how to use it, but as mentioned above, it's around $4 worth of value, and not everyone even wants that, but at least it's something you can directly use.

Meanwhile the actual cost of VIP is $15 a month, it's only $10 a month if you sub for at least 3 months, and that is a discount based on subbing for longer. The actual value you should get out of VIP is $15 worth of value (At least) and honestly since you generally pay in advance, and are therefore showing loyalty etc, it should be MORE than $15 worth of value.

They are doing VIP all wrong and it's still set for a gaming population many many years ago. They need to update it with things that benefit players who have all been here for years, have reincarnated a few times etc. Give them value and you will have way more people subbing, and that means playing, which means they may spend even more money buying DDO points etc.

Getting rid of things like gold rolls (which I didn't even like) is going to do the opposite and drive players away.