Please do not Zerg MY LFM.

[Enoach]

What I've seen is that what usually happens is a person assumes what they find to be normal to be the actual normal. But what is normal?

Bottom line, in DDO there isn't a "normal" the types of players are way too diverse for there to be a normal.

Best practice is to simply use the memo to give quick feedback to players joining on what to expect.

1. Zerg - Only what needs to be done to complete (usually means stuff is only killed if it has to be)
2. Move Fast - stuff dies, optionals only if they are in the way to complete and on to the next quest
3. All Optionals - doing everything in the quest - splitting is possible
4. Flower-sniffing - Doing everything and not in a hurry so stick together - Usually for teaching the quest/first timers

[Drunkendex]

The overwhelming majoirty preference gets the benefit of being the default and the minority preference has to specify it.

Actually that is wrong.

I've joined quite a few blank LFM's where noone zerged.

just because you and vocal minority zergs, it does not mean everyone does.

Again, my "selfish" comment stands. And I see that old fault of vocal DDO community is still present (I'm talking about : "I do it so that means everyone else does it" fault)

But much to my surprise, while vocal minority in DDO expects everyone to zerg (rudely) ESO has it much, MUCH worse with zergers, in DDO zergers usually can solo content (and that's EXTRA rude to ruin someone else's run just because you assume everyone zergs).

In ESO most zergers are actually counting on being supported and can get QUITE toxic when group let's them to die or flat out kicks them.

Zergers...

Don't be "that guy".
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/That_guy

[Nickodeamous]

What I've seen is that what usually happens is a person assumes what they find to be normal to be the actual normal. But what is normal?

Bottom line, in DDO there isn't a "normal" the types of players are way too diverse for there to be a normal.

Best practice is to simply use the memo to give quick feedback to players joining on what to expect.

1. Zerg - Only what needs to be done to complete (usually means stuff is only killed if it has to be)
2. Move Fast - stuff dies, optionals only if they are in the way to complete and on to the next quest
3. All Optionals - doing everything in the quest - splitting is possible
4. Flower-sniffing - Doing everything and not in a hurry so stick together - Usually for teaching the quest/first timers

+1

This is perfect advice.

If you really want to prevent zergers from joining, just deter them with the words "flower sniffing" or "new to the game". A zerger will read that as "don't join, cause I ain't going fast".

If you absolutely don't want zergers and you the leave the description field blank in your LFM, you are opening it up to all types of people and I can 100% guarantee you that everybody runs at their own speed. Its just creating issues if this bothers you.

Its a game. have fun. How you want to.

[adamkatt]

I just zerged right past your lfm!!! sry!!!!!

[TitusOvid]

See it this way: If you post it in your lfm not only the zergers will know that they are in the wrong place but the flowersniffers will see that they are in the right place.
There are always 2 sides. If you are hell-bent on your way, don't expect anything else from others.

Cheers,
Titus.

[C-Dog]

"zerg" is the norm speed in this game now.

In your guild, perhaps. Nothing "norm" across the entire player base.

I would say you are being discourteous by not including the label on your LFM.

Sorry to say, but you're at fault.

Because "zerg" is the default? I would suggest that people use the term "zerg" to describe something that is not the default - that's why that term exists. If it were the norm, then no one would have reason to use that term - but we do.

The only "discourteous" or "faulty" approach is to assume your approach is the correct one for everyone. It's only so for each individual.


A LOT of players zerg by default - no question, doubt or argument there. However, for them to assume that zerging is fine with every group is the only "discourteous" action I see described on this thread.

There are certainly ways to communicate better, to avoid this type of problem. And with so many diff player types and patterns there certainly is no "norm" - but there is an "average", and I, from observing all the PUG's I've joined, don't believe that average = zerg.

[boredGamer]

In your guild, perhaps. Nothing "norm" across the entire player base.


Because "zerg" is the default? I would suggest that people use the term "zerg" to describe something that is not the default - that's why that term exists. If it were the norm, then no one would have reason to use that term - but we do.

The only "discourteous" or "faulty" approach is to assume your approach is the correct one for everyone. It's only so for each individual.


A LOT of players zerg by default - no question, doubt or argument there. However, for them to assume that zerging is fine with every group is the only "discourteous" action I see described on this thread.

There are certainly ways to communicate better, to avoid this type of problem. And with so many diff player types and patterns there certainly is no "norm" - but there is an "average", and I, from observing all the PUG's I've joined, don't believe that average = zerg.

Yeah, no one should assume how anyone wants to play. Therefore the person POSTING the thing should say how they want people to play (if they care). I don't really care how people play in my groups, if they're burning the dungeon down in 1 sec, great, I'll follow along and try to complete opts, open doors, etc. If they are off doing opts, I'll do the quest. If they are piking, who cares. If I *did* care I would post how I want the group to go.

This is like posting a job and then wanting everyone to ask you what kind of job it is, instead of just posting it the first time.

I hate it in both directions (zerg or slow) when there is just a blank LFM - especially if like "normal" is selected - really normal or you just didn't change the thing or post any information?

[archest]

Its not an argument over Zerging style vs non Zerging style its one over common courtesy.

example is coals.
not understanding the locations and other areas where one needs to travel to reach the milestones of the quest in order to complete it.
I would guess its ok for someone power leveled used to power leveling to come in and complete the quest leaving the fodder for the rest of the now pikers of the party.
after all the SOP for this game < dont play it but run past stuff and get completion and then do it again because your trying to catch up with the last fool trapped in the tr xp zerg fest of boring game play.

seriously your taking a level 12 character and making them a level 26 character and calling it level 12 with past life enhancements.
the game is not the game anymore its the TR XP challenge.
fine if you want to get that out of the game thinking your getting a better value than the enjoyment of playing the actual game.
we should rename the game to PIKE for XP the old players will win it for you.

[captain1z]

More information is always better.

I was up late one night, working on a new-ish character, when someone send me a tell "care to join us for gatekeepers chain"

I said sure.

We ran to the quest and jumped in, much to my surprise on R9.

I typically don't do reaper and if I do, its 1 or 2.
Surprisingly we did complete the chain.

Thanks to healing wall, a beefy fighter, greater shout and the odd Mass Hold Monster that landed.

I would have declined if I knew it was R9 but I cant deny the XP gain was well worth it. Gained 6 or 7 reaper ranks.

[DreamingReality]

First off, until DDO Devs decide to make a check mark option on the create LFM Page: Zerging/Not Zerging which immediately and easily notifies everyone of what is happening in that group, both sides are wrong about this in many ways:
(1) You cannot say every LFM poster who goes slowly should always state "No Zerging" in their LFM unless every zerger is ALSO required to post "Zerging" in their LFM. People are different and have different gaming styles, but at the same time you can't hold one group accountable while allowing the others to slack off.
(2) When anyone is considering joining an LFM without any notes, DDO allows you to do this amazing thing and communicate with the poster. "/tell MysteryLFMPoster Are you moving fast through quests?" Is a thoroughly acceptable way to find out what you want to know BEFORE you join.
(3) You are antisocial? Guess what, DDO usually tells you exactly how long a group has been in a dungeon when you look at the LFM. Do you prefer to complete it in less than the already clocked time? You might want another group.
(4) So, you don't want to go to that trouble and you enter the group and dungeon anyway. As you are running through the dungeon to catch up to the group, you need to notice your surroundings--are all monsters missing? Are multiple optionals you normally skip completed? These are hints the group might not be zerging. Look at the group chat--is someone explaining something about the game to another player? Further, when you get up to the group, kill the monsters and run forward, are they with you or do they take a side route? If they take a side route, guess what, you should stop what you are doing and go back with them.
(5) If you think posting a description keeps people from zerging through your LFM, you are lying to yourself. Many zergers are in too big of a hurry to read descriptions, in my opinion. My husband refuses to use "daisy-pickers" (or "noobs") in his LFMs because he finds that offensive. However, he does frequently state we are doing all the optionals and taking our time. We still get people who join and fly through everything. So, you on your pot complain because we don't fly through, and we made you miss a little XP--guess what you made me lose all that XP for the broken vases, optionals, and bad guys left standing when you completed it for us. I have lost over 25,000 XP on quests because of zergers who joined and completed when we posted we were doing all the optionals and taking our time. I just recently lost XP for an entire quest because I went to do an optional, and the quest was completed. Unfortunately, my husband left the quest with the others not realizing what I had done, and I was stuck fighting a boss (he's the DPS) by myself. When he realized I wasn't in the next quest, he started texting me to let me know everyone had moved on, but I couldn't get out of the optional boss fight immediately. By the time I did, I had missed the entire next quest in the chain since someone was moving fast. He even told them I was having issues, and they still completed it. So, yeah, descriptions are not the answer--common courtesy is.
(6) What is zerging? In my book, its running through a quest without killing much just to complete it. As a former Daily Runner (before DDO axed us all), I can, however, complete most of those quests in less than ten minutes with all the optionals done, all the enemies killed, and all the vases broken. Even though I would not consider myself a zerger, when I am running those quests (or the Depths quests that I find fun zerging), I have to frequently check myself in groups that have not run them thousands of times. So, someone who isn't aware of their surrounding group, might join a "no zerging" group because s/he doesn't believe s/he is a zerger. Again, descriptions aren't the key, here. Being aware of the group you join and dropping if they are moving too slowly through quests is. If you run through one quest, see the group is not with you when you finish and then drop, it is better than running through six quests with that "slow" group. And sorry, unless someone is 5 years old, I don't know too many adults who want someone else to run quests for them. Those that do like that join other groups where "pikers" are welcome as opposed to starting a group and expecting those who join to carry them.

For the most part, I like to kill everything, break everything, and do all the optionals. When I join a group with NOTHING in the description, I can usually figure out in a matter of seconds if I need to run through and try not to get killed by left behind mobs (my definition of true zerging), or if I need to skip optionals or forego breaking vases as I normally would have done. Or, in alternate, I figure out if I need to be the tank so newbies can get a chance to get a few kills. The more advanced player you are, the more accommodating you should be when you join someone else's LFM--because at your level and experience, you CAN be accommodating.

[ChaosBuddha]

the difference is when i dont put zerg only in my lfm and ppl show up who does not zerg, i wouldt run on form and cry about it.

[DreamingReality]

If you really want to prevent zergers from joining, just deter them with the words "flower sniffing" or "new to the game". A zerger will read that as "don't join, cause I ain't going fast".

LOL! I have been playing about 8 years, and so have most of the others complaining about zergers. Should we all put "new to game"? Unfortunately, that would also deter newer players from joining us because they frequently want to join a group that isn't led by someone as lost as them.

And, as stated above, "flower-sniffing" simply shows your disrespect for those who like to take their time.

[DreamingReality]

the difference is when i dont put zerg only in my lfm and ppl show up who does not zerg, i wouldt run on form and cry about it.

That only shows your lack of understanding about the situation. How, specifically, does a person who doesn't zerg cause a problem for you? If you are a zerger and don't tell others and people join, and they are taking their time, does it interfere with your gaming experience or do you complete the quest as quickly as you would have whether they joined or not? Do you wait for them to kill everything and break all the vases before completing the quest? Do you then wait at the entrance of the next quest for them to get out while they go around doing all the optionals in the quest you completed? (After all, pots don't run in public places and many optionals can be completed after the quest is done.)

I am going to bet you don't. Since those who don't zerg can't really interfere with a zerger's game play, you don't have a reason to complain. However, as I stated, I have lost XP and had to have my husband redo quests with me because of zergers. Some newer players in our group leave quests confused and upset because they didn't understand what was happening in quests others zerged to completion. Zergers can ruin the experience of non-zergers and complaining on a forum is done to try and make zergers understand they are causing problems and those problems could be fixed if they were simply more aware of the playing style of others.

[ChaosBuddha]

That only shows your lack of understanding about the situation. How, specifically, does a person who doesn't zerg cause a problem for you? If you are a zerger and don't tell others and people join, and they are taking their time, does it interfere with your gaming experience or do you complete the quest as quickly as you would have whether they joined or not? Do you wait for them to kill everything and break all the vases before completing the quest? Do you then wait at the entrance of the next quest for them to get out while they go around doing all the optionals in the quest you completed? (After all, pots don't run in public places and many optionals can be completed after the quest is done.)

I am going to bet you don't. Since those who don't zerg can't really interfere with a zerger's game play, you don't have a reason to complain. However, as I stated, I have lost XP and had to have my husband redo quests with me because of zergers. Some newer players in our group leave quests confused and upset because they didn't understand what was happening in quests others zerged to completion. Zergers can ruin the experience of non-zergers and complaining on a forum is done to try and make zergers understand they are causing problems and those problems could be fixed if they were simply more aware of the playing style of others.

i be happy to slow down and show them the quest if anyone ask me but if they dont say anything i will just kill mobs and move forward at my speed. the game been out for how many years now? nobody should expect to automatically get a fulltime babysitter everytime you join an lfm

[Kza]

Most ppl use xp pots.
Most have done the quest 45643455 times.

So most do the quests quite fast.

Plz be kind and just put in your lfm ”slow mode” or ”go together” or
Something like that? Nice to all that run with xp pots so they know beforehand!
(Personally i type ”flowersniffing” when i go i searches/discovery mode)


I have met like 0 ppl since cap was 10 that really try destroy others fun.
But it go both ways. :-)

[Xgya]

Because "zerg" is the default? I would suggest that people use the term "zerg" to describe something that is not the default - that's why that term exists. If it were the norm, then no one would have reason to use that term - but we do.

The only "discourteous" or "faulty" approach is to assume your approach is the correct one for everyone. It's only so for each individual.

You're adding text where there is none.
The default when no rule is laid is "do as you normally would". I.e: just what you said, "it's only so for each individual."
That's what the "norm" is, everyone running like they usually would.
If you don't tell them to act in a different way, or that there's something special there, or that there's an optional you're trying to get and people should kill the enemies before killing the Doomsphere, you're wrong to blame them for not following the plan you told nobody about.

If you specifically DON'T want something to happen, post it in the LFM.
"Slow and steady, no zerg"
- If somebody is constantly running ahead of this group with this note in the LFM, warn or kick them.
"Rushing the chain, follow the group"
- If somebody is constantly asking for people to let them get the end chest or to wait to complete, warn or kick them.

The faulty approach in either case would be getting angry at them for either going too fast or not fast enough without knowing they were doing something you didn't like. THAT's why I said the OP was at fault. Because they blamed the people joining for not having psychic mind reading abilities.

[Nickodeamous]

LOL! I have been playing about 8 years, and so have most of the others complaining about zergers. Should we all put "new to game"? Unfortunately, that would also deter newer players from joining us because they frequently want to join a group that isn't led by someone as lost as them.

And, as stated above, "flower-sniffing" simply shows your disrespect for those who like to take their time.

I am not sure why you are assuming I am being disrespectful at all. What i am implying is that if you do not want zergers, which seems like the case, put it in your lfm that you are taking your time. "Flower sniffing" is just an example of what you could put if you want. Or you could put "no zergers" or "taking our time" or "running as a group". No disrespect in that at all.

The alternative is that you put nothing and somebody joins your LFM and you get angry at that them for zerging. Honestly, this is bound to happen at some point.

As for the "new to the game", again, just an example. Maybe a new player wants to put up an LFM, and he or she states "I'm new, could use some help". 1) zergers won't join mostly likely (hence avoiding any issues) and 2) somebody will probably join and help out. for example, I help out new players farm items all the time when I can.

The more info that's in an LFM for folks that like a certain playstyle, the better experience it will be for all (party and joiners). Just a thought.

[SoulDustar]

Please when you join a group and they are working the dungeon as a group dont go so far ahead that the group members get separated and lost.
it take away the experience of learning the quest from the group.
if you find you have joined a group like this and are running a pot please make your own lfm if you wat to bypass opts and such.
again some people dont know the quests and would like to follow them through as a learning experience.
I personally find groups that party together, even if one runs ahead just not so far as too exclude party members from the gaming experience, more enjoyable.
after all I didn't join your lfm. you joined mine.
Thank you.

Posting difficulty, optionals, playstyle, Zerg, Role Play, Teaching, No Zerg those and many more options can all be put in the LFM

If it's not posted how exactly is anyone joining an LFM supposed to know what is going on. Plenty of people lose connection to the chat server meaning no voice no in game chat
and have moved onto Discord.

Easy fix for those you do not want joining your LFM

https://ddowiki.com/page/Ignore_list -- 149 entries

DDO Audit also has a list just add those you do not want joining after prior experience with them

https://www.ddoaudit.com/friends -- no idea about limit

If you are having problems with people joining your LFM you have options to keep them from joining.

[Oxarhamar]

Actually that is wrong.

I've joined quite a few blank LFM's where noone zerged.

just because you and vocal minority zergs, it does not mean everyone does.

Again, my "selfish" comment stands. And I see that old fault of vocal DDO community is still present (I'm talking about : "I do it so that means everyone else does it" fault)

But much to my surprise, while vocal minority in DDO expects everyone to zerg (rudely) ESO has it much, MUCH worse with zergers, in DDO zergers usually can solo content (and that's EXTRA rude to ruin someone else's run just because you assume everyone zergs).

In ESO most zergers are actually counting on being supported and can get QUITE toxic when group let's them to die or flat out kicks them.

Zergers...

Don't be "that guy".
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/That_guy

This is incongruent with the OP who claim Zerg is the SOP

What is or isn’t Zerg is going to be different depending on who you ask

Ran with a group that was finishing quests at breakneck pace but getting all conquest ransack traps etc I wouldn’t call that Zerg because nothing was skipped but someone else might because of the speed.

When you join a blank limit you don’t know what exactly you are going to get however if you post information in the LFM panel that helps everyone out

[Oxarhamar]

LOL! I have been playing about 8 years, and so have most of the others complaining about zergers. Should we all put "new to game"? Unfortunately, that would also deter newer players from joining us because they frequently want to join a group that isn't led by someone as lost as them.

And, as stated above, "flower-sniffing" simply shows your disrespect for those who like to take their time.

Try “new players welcome” & “No Zerg”

We have raid nights dedicated for newcomers also where we help players learn

Flower sniffing in this context is speaking of the idiom stop to smell the rose )To relax; to take time out of one's busy schedule to enjoy or appreciate the beauty of life) it simply means taking one’s time nothing disrespectful about it

If you don’t like flower sniffing just put relaxed pace or exploring not rushing it really your choice

There are entire guilds dedicated to the game style names like No Zerg or Don’t run & of course the opposite side as well there are Zerg guilds

It may not be everyone’s style but speed running is a long tradition in games once players beat the game they try for faster and faster


XP pots to run counter to taking more time for exploring everything of course