wizard update please

[zybert]

i was hoping to inspire the arch mage tree to be redone cause its really weak. so my idea is keeping most of the core sla's from it but, making it more potent or worth playing.

core 1- +10 all spell power and +30 spell points. maintain all core 1 sla's

core 2-maintain sla's except control undead replace with spell choke from 2nd edition dnd. i recommend it doing 1d6 force or untyped damage to living creatures not undead or oozes or constructs saving throw vs stun while choked counts as a 2nd level sla lasts 10 sec saving throw every 2 sec single creature only. passive +1 stacking spell penetration

core 3-passive +1 stacking spell penetration maintain sla's and fix halt undead so auto target works with it

core 4 - passive +1 spell dc's stacking to specialty selected and stacking +30 spell points maintain sla's maybe replace fire shield with force missiles as sla with 1 level higher than spell

core 5 - passive +1 stacking spell dc's to specialty selected and +1 stacking spell penetration. maintain sla's except necromancy replace with choke mass 1d8 force or untyped damage as level 5 sla costing 15 spell points cooldown of 10 sec non breathing monsters are immune. undead with this spell can still have their necks snapped.

core 6- passive +2 stacking spell dc for selected specialty previously picked +2 int +10 spell craft. choose between specialist or generalist. specialist gives new core sla's transmutation: the mass ability increasers illusion: invisibility mass Abjuration: greater dispel magic Conjuration: acid fog Enchantment: symbol of persuasion but with a much faster cooldown and it lasts longer when triggered like 30sec evocation: prismatic spray or arcane tempest necromancy: necro ray. Generalist gives an additional+2 int stacking and +10 concentration and a +3 max caster level with all spells including sla's and +1 caster level including sla's

tier 1- spell points (1ap each) 30, 60, 100.- traditional cater the 3,6,10 universal power. - generalist spell crits cost 2 ap for 1% force, necro, light, fire, cold, Eletric, acid increased chance and damage on crit multiplier. - subtle spellcasting the norm 10, 20, 30% each worth 1 ap. - then the norm scroll wand 25,50,75% 1 ap each

tier 2- arcane bolt or necro bolt 1d6 points of damage as level 2 spell sla 8/6/4 spell points 15/10/5 cooldown as normal. - generalist spell crits cost 2 ap for 2% force, necro, light, fire, cold, Eletric, acid increased chance and damage on crit multiplier. - metal magic as already there with the added feature of being able to reduce extend and reduced ap cost to get meta tree enhancements, so 1 point to acquire for wizard only.

tier 3 - spell penetration as already there. - increased int as already there. - generalist spell crits cost 2 ap for 2% force, necro, light, fire, cold, Eletric, acid increased chance and damage on crit multiplier. - generalist spellcasting cost 2 ap and gives a stacking +1 to all spell dcs

tier 4- heighten as is. - generalist spellcasting again stacking cost 2 ap and increases all spell dc's by 1. - generalist spell crits cost 2 ap for 3% force, necro, light, fire, cold, Eletric, acid increased chance and damage on crit multiplier. - int 2 ap +1 stacking as already there. - arcane blast or necro (as on the necro tree) 12/8/6 spell point cost ap 1 point each rank cooldown 18/12/6 but 1d8 points of force damage and counts as a level 5 spell sla.

tier 5- arcane chain 20/15/10 spell point cost cooldown 30/25/20sec 1 ap each acts like chain lightning but with force 1d8 + 6 force damage counts as a level 7 sla. - battle mage cooldown of 45 sec lasts 30 increased spell crit chance by 20% increased crit multiplier by 3 and reduced spell cost by 5% cost 3 ap. - generalist spellcasting cost 2 ap and increases all spell dc's by 2. - generalist practice cost 2 ap grants all spells from another core specialty. - generalist spell mastery reduces all meta magic costs by 1 or 5% general spell cost discount

[Halciet]

tier 5- arcane chain 20/15/10 spell point cost cooldown 30/25/20sec 1 ap each acts like chain lightning but with force

I guess we couldn't call it

[Pandjed]

As I said here, here, here, and here, Archmage basically ties into how wizards specialize into schools in the actual D&D Pen and Paper, though this tree doesn't do it well.
Therefore a huge rewrite would be needed to not only make it viable, but also give it an identity beyond the "Oh boy, I'm just a better spellcaster". In your rewrite, why should I go beyond tier 2? I mean, that's spellpower thrown at you without much opportunity cost. Even one point would be enough for several multiclass cases (as wizards also get a feat at 1st level).

I'd rather see Archmage put to rest (and make a ED with the same name), and add 2-3 other trees that picks up some wizard schools that fits together. Warmage for a evo/conj tree, Shaper as a illu/transmut tree (well, Feydark could have become a wizard tree, but no, CHA to hit and damage needed to get in there), Warder as a abjuration/divination tree, and the like.

Alternatively, make the tree interact with metamagics and your specialized school better. Like instead of normal SLAs, make improved versions of spells, like instead of fireshield SLA, get the Weathershield SLA, which gives absorb to both elements. Make sure that it feels special to be specialized, that you got the feeling "I've delved deeper into the school than most other spellcasters". Give short-term buffs when using an actual spell of your school, like temp SP or HP, PRR or the like, rewarding a school-specialized playing style. Give a metamagic mastery at tier 5, which allows you whenever you cast a spell (instead SLA) with a metamagic toggled on, you get a buff depending on the metamagic or that the metamagics itself become more potent (+200% duration for extend, more spellpower or better crit profile for empower/maximize, quicken speeds your spellcasting time to a sorcerer with quicken, etc.).

Archmage's power-problem is less of an issue than its blandness and lack of noticeable identity.

[Aelonwy]

I guess we couldn't call it

I mean... that would actually be pretty cool and unique... well unique to D&D not unique in fantasy/sci-fi. But I bet it would be really fun.

[Aelonwy]

Alternatively, make the tree interact with metamagics and your specialized school better.

Alternately, it would be distinctive if Archmage had better access or cost to metamagics than any other class/enhancement trees. That is, perhaps Archmage in Tier 5 could choose one metamagic from a multiselector that doesn't add any extra cost to their spells and perhaps in earlier tiers their metamagic enhancements could have slightly better cost adjustments than the same enhancements in other caster trees. It doesn't have to be much difference to be useful.

[Xgya]

One thing I'd like to see is the entire removal of Archmage. As a whole. No more Archmage - at least not in its current iteration.

See, I saw what the devs could DO with proper and previously ignored class features turned into actual, usable pieces. In DDO, we now call those "Cleric Domains", and they're pretty neat, flavorful and each of them brings something to the table.

Instead of forcing players to pick while in the Archmage tree, make them Specialize, just like you granted Clerics their Domains.
No need to entirely replicate the P&P Specialization - the Domains don't replicate the P&P ones at all, and I still like them - just give Wizards a way to push the boundaries of magic in one category they like, mayhaps (but not necessarily) at the cost of another.

The Specializations themselves don't have to reflect magic schools either - it'd be easy to start there, but there's a lot of schools of magic in DDO that are so sorely lacking, so specializing in them would essentially be meaningless.


Specialties like Force Adept, that makes both the current Force line of spells better, but also improves Mage Armors and Shields.
Or Prismatic, a specialization that makes all the caster's elemental damaging spells more powerful, so long as they don't commit to only one or two.

I could go on, but you get the general idea.

Archmage is an idea of P&P D&D that uses a class feature, Specialization, that DDO simply doesn't. It tries to replace a class feature with a whole Enhancement tree, while also trying to hand out things every Specialty might want, and that leaves it wanting.

Edit: Adding some Iconic Prestige Classes that could become Enhancement trees in DDO.
Incantatrix. The metamagic MASTER, as well as the ones best equipped to fight other spellcasters with their own tricks.
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. Masters of defensive magic with a focus on prismatic effects.
Loremaster. Wizard-oriented class with some bard-like abilities to boot.
Geometer. Mathemagician, focuses on static trap-like spells and effects.
Alienist. Summoner extraordinaire, summons horrid versions of the usual monsters, as well as making themselves progressively more alien.
Argent Savant. The Force equivalent of Fire Savant.
Blood Magus. Probably too niche and stepping on Palemaster's toes. Still very much iconic.
Shadow Adept. A focus on mind magic and necromancy, at the cost of evocation and conjuration.

I'd have named Red Wizard, which is as iconic as they come, but I don't know how well that would work in DDO.

[shmagmhar]

perhaps Pale master and/or eldrich knight should be an Archtype for wizard . I like them ,I enjoy playing them , I think they are cool . It just doesnt feel wizzard-y . Alchemist feels more like a wizard than wizard

[Smokewolf]

It's not just Archmage but Eldrich Knight as well... Simplely put EK's Wizards are not elementalists but instead should use Force, Rust, Sonic and Negative for effect. Yet, Wiz-EK's weapon imbues reflect an Emementalists philosophy with Acid, Fire, Cold and Electric. While this setup is just fine for a Sorcerer EK, it really feels out of place for any Wizard.

[SoVeryBelgian]

My personal choices for Wizard would be 3.5 Invoker, more Words of Power would be awesome.


Archmage could possibly be improved by making the pre-selection for spellschool into a sort of subclass, like Illusionist / Abjurator / Conjurer, allowing 1 Primary spell school + 1 Universal spell school. but with more choices for efficacy.

More unique spells would be handy. There's almost too much focus on elemental damage, which leans into Sorcerer, so I'd like more Force spells or circumstance-specific spells, like knockdown/hold person/reduce stats or slowing.


Battlemage would also blend with EK well for Sorc OR Wiz. I have also suggested Blightmancer for Sorc as well.

Less focus is needed on Undead/Necro spells UNLESS you specifically choose, say, the Necromancer subclass.

[Smokewolf]

My personal choices for Wizard would be 3.5 Invoker, more Words of Power would be awesome.


Archmage could possibly be improved by making the pre-selection for spellschool into a sort of subclass, like Illusionist / Abjurator / Conjurer, allowing 1 Primary spell school + 1 Universal spell school. but with more choices for efficacy.

More unique spells would be handy. There's almost too much focus on elemental damage, which leans into Sorcerer, so I'd like more Force spells or circumstance-specific spells, like knockdown/hold person/reduce stats or slowing.


Battlemage would also blend with EK well for Sorc OR Wiz. I have also suggested Blightmancer for Sorc as well.

Less focus is needed on Undead/Necro spells UNLESS you specifically choose, say, the Necromancer subclass.

@SoVeryBelgian

Problem with specific spell-schools is that they're too lopsided, with some having significantly better spells than others. Which at the Epic / End-Game levels makes it very difficult to play (for example) a viable Conjurer when most of the functional spells tend to favor Illusion / Enchantment schools. Sure, Web and Trap-the-Soul Conjuration spells are great but they're very much the exception rather than the norm in DDO.

While I'm not saying that Illusionist / Enchantment are bad being so well developed, I'm saying that most of the other spell-schools are really (Creative expletive of your choice)-bad. This situation is further compounded by the fact that most offensive spells are really just variations of elemental spells that are more in line with the needs of a Sorcerer than a Wizard. I mean, nowhere is this more apparent than at Wizard lvl-1. For example: At spell level 1 there's really just burning hands and maybe Sonic-Blast (Pre-Nerf). The total lack of functional diversity really hurts spell casting to the point where choosing a spell-school has become 100% pointless for all but flavor builds.

Side note: Would help out a ton if Conjured spells were worth casting but this kind of falls into the same issue that Artificers and Druids have with their pets. Which makes them mostly useless past lvl 8 for anything that could be remotely considered offensive, never mind trying to use a pet in Reaper for anything other than a lever puller.

-Smoke

[Xgya]

Side note: Would help out a ton if Conjured spells were worth casting but this kind of falls into the same issue that Artificers and Druids have with their pets. Which makes them mostly useless past lvl 8 for anything that could be remotely considered offensive, never mind trying to use a pet in Reaper for anything other than a lever puller.

I remember proposing something aeons ago that I'd still like to see implemented.
Remove all aggro generated from pets that are within a certain range of their summoners. Make them entirely immune to damage, so long as they keep to that range.
Make it optional, either as a training feat for pets, or part of enhancement selection for Wizards. (You either get a Tanking pet, that takes hits for you, and works pretty much the same way pets work right now, or you get a Damage Pet, itself entirely immune to damage)
The range limit is to prevent pets from soloing fights you'd have no reason being in in the first place, and to prevent pets from being invincible soulstone carriers in case of a wipe.

I wish summons did more of this and less of a single hit you don't have to take. (in R10, Summon Monster I and Summon Monster IX are essentially the same spell)
Add some versatility to summons.
That spider summon? You can have a tiny one safe on your shoulder that periodically attempts to web a nearby enemy instead.
That demon you were invoking? It's gonna die if it goes in, and it knows that. Instead, it taunts people by constantly teleporting, randomly Bluffing people and maybe making one of their attacks miss.
Earth elemental friend? It hides underground instead of facing off, and Earthgrabs someone when it can.
So many ways to have summons become buff spells instead of all serving the function of being bodies that'll take a hit and die.

[Smokewolf]

@XGYA Making pets immune to damage and / or agro would 100% be abused.

The better solution it to give "Pets" (not hires) the stats and lvl of the caster. Thus, for a Wizard summoning something that can cast would be the best possible performance for the stats imparted. Along with this, it would allow low level summoning spells to scale up as the Summoner advanced in levels. Granted, this wouldn't make pets viable past Heroics / Reaper 1-2, but it would allow them to be viable throughout the Heroic levels.

Keep in mind that the Dev's aren't really keen on "Pets / Hires" other than what they can make a profit from via DDO store. Just look at the Wolf Whistle to understand why...

-Smoke