Sacred Fist Review after 3 past lives with it.

[Tianie]

First the Lore issues.
1. Path of Light is a MONK thing, in the Lore, it has nothing to do with Paladins.
2. Monks get KI form long hours of study, not a "gift" from a god. Even if a paladin followed the path of light, they would not get KI.
3. The fighting style of unarmed combat is through the same training, not a gift from a god. And since the Monk lost the increased damage dice, the paladin gets the same for free.
Giving paladins KI and all their paladins stuff, is messed up.

I played 3 lives as Scared Fist.
They took everything, that made a handwraps monk cool, and gave it to the paladin, but kept all the good stuff for the paladin also.
Path of Light/Sacred Fist, should have been a Monk archetype instead of paladin. Or a universal tree.

In play they get so much the Monk should have, such as whirlwind attacks in the enhancement tree.

Instead of giving Path of Light to the Monk, and making the handwraps Monk better.

They made Paladins be better handwraps Monks, then handwraps Monks themselves.

You can be a better handwraps user playing Sacred Fist Paladin, then playing a Monk, and still have all the good Pali stuff.

[Firebreed]

It's been said quite a few times over the past few months, but it's worth saying again.

It feels like Handwrap Monks haven't been treated fairly.

[Tianie]

Was thinking that one nice add to the Monk would be.
Path of Harmonious Balance: add +1 Imbue Dice (light damage)
Then in the shintao tree core abilities add +1 Imbue dice each.

[PurpleTimb]

It feels like Handwrap Monks haven't been treated fairly.

Agree. One day handwrap monks will get their character pass and will once again be worthwhile. I hope.

[Duskofdead]

I see the issue of “fairness to hand wrap monks” as the symptom and not the disease.

There has been a pronounced drive in design with tree and class changes over time, going back well before the archetypes, of trying to push handwraps as some kind of broad universal play style.

Not sure anyone wanted that or is invested in how well they can run high meta hand wrap builds outside of a monk, but they keep trying. Here, do it o your shifter. Here, do it on a barbarian. Now here, do it on a paladin.

It’s bizarre to me that so much work goes into trying to make handwraps a global class export good when there are so many native play styles within classes that could use some love and renovation.

[Marshal_Lannes]

So...not so much a review of Sacred Fist and more about your commentary on what monks should have.

[droid327]

Fists dont get Stances. They dont get Finishing Moves. They dont get Philosophies. They dont get the plethora of CC options that Shintao offers.

I dont think that Fist necessarily simply out-Monks Monks. I think its just better aligned with what you want or expect out of an unarmed fighting build. Which is fine - the only issue is you need to realign your expectation that it must be a Monk who gives you that playstyle.

Monks are still Monks, doing what it is Monks do especially well. There's room for that, and for Fist being a more simplified punch-fighting class

[Seph1roth5]

Uh...yeah so how was it as a class lol? I love shintao monk, and looking at DF tree it looked very meh. It looked like they looked at the t5s of kotc/monk and gave us the worst bits.

[Oxarhamar]

So...not so much a review of Sacred Fist and more about your commentary on what monks should have.

Comparing the 2 is an appropriate way to measure

[Memnir]

Just wait for the Greatsword Monk archetype. *eyeroll*

[DRoark]

It's been said quite a few times over the past few months, but it's worth saying again.

It feels like Handwrap Monks haven't been treated fairly.

Monks got pounded. They had their Canon damage taken, the CD issue murdered combos, Drifting Lotus with wraps is STILL broken,
and between the Razorclaw (hideous design IMO), and the entire Holy-Knuckle idea with free/better Whirlwind.. Monks are semi-DOA.

They needed a proper pass years ago, and some sort of restoration of their Heroic skills (even partially).

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Fists dont get Stances. They dont get Finishing Moves. They dont get Philosophies. They dont get the plethora of CC....

Point taken, but TBH the Fist-a-Din doesn't need those, and already does more AOE damage without the Feat investment.
The monk has it, sure, but it's rarely needed unless you're soloing, or can't find anyone with any CC at all to group with.

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Next up? Cleric (Norris Domain). Under their robe, is only another Fist.

[Tilomere]

The main problem with monk is that it can't 10/10 with sorc, and so it has to power off FvS or another caster. If they fixed that, monk and paladin would have equal AoE.

[Xgya]

Monks are still Monks, doing what it is Monks do especially well. There's room for that, and for Fist being a more simplified punch-fighting class

That was my personal experience with Fisticuffs Paladin too.

That's a Paladin whose Favored Weapon is Handwraps, with some added flair.

Saying it's a Monk is like saying an elven Warpriest of the Silver Flame is somehow a Ranger archetype.

I do WISH Monks were more like punchy punchy Paladins, but that's because Monks were always too complex for my tastes. I know some people can make OMGAWESOME Monks. I cannot.

[jskinner937]

My main was always a handwrap monk, until the exploited build posted to the forums nerfed it into uselessness. I miss the day of autocrit and if you didnt have a hold wizard, monk was the next best thing.

I played sacred fist and it seemed like a better version of monk. I did not miss the stances and liked the extra light damage and aoes. But unarmed fighting just sucks at DPS. The best DPS monk (or sacred fist) holds a dagger and puts points into vistani. Drifting Lotus is actually really good with anything but handwraps.

[Oxarhamar]

My main was always a handwrap monk, until the exploited build posted to the forums nerfed it into uselessness. I miss the day of autocrit and if you didnt have a hold wizard, monk was the next best thing.

I played sacred fist and it seemed like a better version of monk. I did not miss the stances and liked the extra light damage and aoes. But unarmed fighting just sucks at DPS. The best DPS monk (or sacred fist) holds a dagger and puts points into vistani. Drifting Lotus is actually really good with anything but handwraps.

I loved stun monk back in the day but the finishing move combo stuff was super annoying going to try SacredFist soon for the hamp I think

[jskinner937]

I loved stun monk back in the day but the finishing move combo stuff was super annoying going to try SacredFist soon for the hamp I think

Thats the main reason to do SF. HAMP is DDO crack.

Yeah I never really did the finishing combo stuff...annoying asf and slowed attack animation substantially. Only time i ever did was the water,light,water for the SP discount during buffs, but thats kind of useless now.

[Xgya]

Thats the main reason to do SF. HAMP is DDO crack.

I'll be real, that's the only reason I have 3 of those lives right now.
I might seek out the negative HAmp from the cleric part too, but that sounded less urgent.

[Bjond]

Path of Light/Sacred Fist, should have been a Monk archetype

Post title had me hoping for a bit more of a play review than thematic commentary, but I'm glad it was NOT added a monk option. I want a different archetype for the monk.

Monks got pounded [..] They needed a proper pass years ago, and some sort of restoration of their Heroic skills (even partially).

I keep hoping for a chaotic monk and there's the perfect archetype for it just begging to be added: Drunken Master replaces Henshin, forces Chaotic Alignment, chock full of goofy Jackie-Chan pratfall anims and/or skills.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Post title had me hoping for a bit more of a play review than thematic commentary, but I'm glad it was NOT added a monk option. I want a different archetype for the monk.



I keep hoping for a chaotic monk and there's the perfect archetype for it just begging to be added: Drunken Master replaces Henshin, forces Chaotic Alignment, chock full of goofy Jackie-Chan pratfall anims and/or skills.

Not chaotic but with links to a non-lawful class, the sensei archetype is a monk with bard-type abilities to buff allies that could be another interesting option.

[Tianie]

It would be nice if they would come out and atleast give a comment on the future of the handwraps monk.