Yet another expansion where wizard is left behind

[Paragoons]

Yet another expansion where wizard is left behind, still no archmage update or improvement, still a massive focus on magic casters being all melee or having to jump through hoops to play a real caster experience

[Valerianus]

probably the fate of archmage is waiting to be adjusted only to accomodate the new archetype wizard tree that will replace pale master for that archetype....sooner or later.....guess in the year 20XX.

given that we are into archetypes now, it's unreal to await for some class pass if an archetype is not involved imho.

in the case of archwizard....it is sad. i hope this is not the case and i hope to be wrong.

[Wizard1406]

Indeed wizard could use buffs for archmage and a better caster tree. I hope for a caster archetype for wizard and archmage rework at the same time. Both would have to be good, so it is worth taking and not almost every wizard is PM.

[LeoLionxxx]

I'm hoping that when it's Wizard's turn the "Pale Master" gets re-branded as the Arcetype and the replacement tree is more focused on uber spell-casting utility.

The reason being that "Undead Pale Master" sounds a lot like it should be an arcetype already. It would also give an excuse to upgrade the Skeleton pet to a pull pet.

[Tyrande]

Yet another expansion where wizard is left behind, still no archmage update or improvement, still a massive focus on magic casters being all melee or having to jump through hoops to play a real caster experience

I guess if you want fast castings and DPS on your arcane caster, you can start playing a sorcerer or TR into one.

And if you also want healing on top, maybe druid or alchemist?

Wizard right now seems to be the generalist, magic user learning class...

[gravisrs]

Noone at SSG likes wizard class

[droid327]

Archmage and Warpriest are probably the two trees most due for an update. Both would open up a lot of playstyle that people are always asking for, in two of D&Ds most timeless classes

[ivorycoaster]

I think caster wizard and handwraps monk are the two forgotten children of DDO... Almost all caster wizards run PM, leaving them at a great healing disadvantage in high reaper. People run sorc or maybe warlock for DC, or sorc/alch/druid for dps caster. The classes with higher DPS also have the ability to strip immunity basically passively, which is by far the single biggest factor in the reaper scene right now..

[slarden]

Wizard is solid at end game R10s due to the higher dc potential, bonus feats, superior # of spell slots, etc. However, that is mostly due to the ED revamp giving them options for better DPS, metamagic reductions, spell points, etc.

The main reason people choose sorc for dc casting in raids and r10s is cooldown and spell point pool. That is most likely an unfixable gap as it's a class feature.

Compared to the other 3 arcanes - sorc, warlock and alchemist I would give wizard the following rank:

DC: 1st although the range is very tight so it's not as much of a benefit as it would seem
Spell Selection: 1st
Useful SLAs: 4th
DPS: 3rd ahead of only warlock
Ability to bypass Immunities: 4th (Warlock base damage is evil/ force/ untyped which makes it ahead of wizard in dealing with immunities)
Feats: Tied for 1st with alchemist
R10 Caster Role: 2nd behind sorc although the placement of #2-4 is debatable as each class has some solid features
Spell point management: 4th - medium spell point pool, few useful slas. The problem is worse at heroic levels and not as bad at epic/legendary levels
Survivability: 2nd or 3rd
Soloability: Dead Last although arcanes in general are good at soloing including wizard

PM and Eld Knight are decent trees, but archmage is quite arguably the single worst tree for all arcane casters.

[capsela]

archmage is quite arguably the single worst tree for all arcane casters.

The north remembers.

[capsela]

I'll be pondering my orb until archmage gets updated.

[LurkingVeteran]

Archmage tries to do too many things and doesn't end up doing any of them well in todays game.

However, I think evo AM only needs a few tweaks to be competitive. It's already perhaps the tree with the highest damage potential via T5 crit proc and Master of Knowledge, they are just a bit too random, and too annoying to stack, respectively. Wizard can easily reach over +300% crit damage. This is almost 50% more damage per crit than sorc (unless you go all-out on LGS).

Also boosting the AM SLAs to modern dice and tweaking the arcane force spells (some of which are AM SLAs...) would make them great levelers. It would also make stacking MoK less of a DPS loss.

Tweaking some numbers of these is literally something you could do in 30min and it could turn the evo AM into a top-tier nuker.

Then there is the age-old issue of immunity bypass etc, but this is a larger discussion that all but 2-3 classes suffer from. Wizards can at least leverage their extra spell slots for this. I think they could do OK in the modern game. In fact, I think nuker AM could do well right now in epics if you know the quests well, you stay laser focused on managing your MoK stack and try to time your crit proc to when you need it. The problem is that it's just not worth the effort.

[Splunge]

Wizards are in a great spot for DC casting. My wizard's DCs and spell pen are high enough for any content in the game. As a wizard, I have a huge spell selection that gives me something for every occasion. As a PM with some points in EK, I also have great self healing and good defenses (for a caster, at least).

The problem with wizards is the AM tree. It's a real stinker. I love the idea of a wizard that specializes in a spell school and is good with force spells and metamagics, but the execution is worse than terrible. You only get +2 DCs to your spell school and +1 to a secondary school. As a PM, I get +3 to necro DCs and +2 to enchant as well as an extra +2 to all DCs from the extra int in the tree. I also get +5 spell pen for free in the cores. In the AM tree, you can only get +3 spell pen, and you have to spend 6 AP to get it. And wow, the capstone stinks. I mean, really? Maximize is only 24 SP now instead of 25? Woohoo... I'm OP now!

PM gets good self healing and a skeletal knight. AM should have the best spell pen and DCs in the game, but PM is also better at that. AM should also be the best in the game at using metamagic. That's going to be harder to do now that they made it so easy to get cheap/free metamagics in the EDs. I love playing DC casters, and there are so many fun ways they could revamp the AM tree. I wish they would get around to it at some point.

[EinarMal]

Wizard is solid at end game R10s due to the higher dc potential, bonus feats, superior # of spell slots, etc. However, that is mostly due to the ED revamp giving them options for better DPS, metamagic reductions, spell points, etc.

The main reason people choose sorc for dc casting in raids and r10s is cooldown and spell point pool. That is most likely an unfixable gap as it's a class feature.

Compared to the other 3 arcanes - sorc, warlock and alchemist I would give wizard the following rank:

DC: 1st although the range is very tight so it's not as much of a benefit as it would seem
Spell Selection: 1st
Useful SLAs: 4th
DPS: 3rd ahead of only warlock
Ability to bypass Immunities: 4th (Warlock base damage is evil/ force/ untyped which makes it ahead of wizard in dealing with immunities)
Feats: Tied for 1st with alchemist
R10 Caster Role: 2nd behind sorc although the placement of #2-4 is debatable as each class has some solid features
Spell point management: 4th - medium spell point pool, few useful slas. The problem is worse at heroic levels and not as bad at epic/legendary levels
Survivability: 2nd or 3rd
Soloability: Dead Last although arcanes in general are good at soloing including wizard

PM and Eld Knight are decent trees, but archmage is quite arguably the single worst tree for all arcane casters.

Agree Archmage is terrible and needs an update but:

There are basically two Wizard builds if you want to play caster at end game. One is the traditional and very common DG max Necro/Illusion instant killer. This is great if you always run in groups, you can CC/Insta-kill and contribute in most quests. However, occasionally, and in most boss fights you can't contribute a ton. That is what you have ranked. Also not the best solo.

However, if you are willing to lose -2 DC (all schools), -5 DC (Illusion) the Tiefling Wizard build below in my opinion is the most fun and versatile end game Wizard. I've also played Alchemists, Sorc, Cold Druids, etc... and in my opinion this build holds it own with those. Because you can instant kill and DPS. Since Wizard's have the Scorch spell (on 3s cool down with EDs), and the SLA you can 100% keep immunity bypass on Iron Golems etc... This makes it work much better for Wizards than other casters. I have Racial/Heroic/Epic Completionist and 95 Reaper points, but the build below can solo R4-R6 easily (I am sure a better player than me could go higher) and still is solid in R10's. It is also very fun because you can always contribute. You can CC/Instant Kill/DPS reliably in any quest.

The best part of this build is the versatility, I have 122 Necro DC, 121 Illusion DC, so instant killing works well, other school DC in the ~114 range which also work well overall and 68 spell penetration. So you can CC/Instant Kill, but you also have very good damage potential, and you can bypass immunity whenever needed reliably.

With 50% helpless damage, I have 82 Fire/45 Force/35 Rest critical damage, 40-50% critical chance (Tiefling nerf hurt here) and Spell Power in the 900-1100 range, it is very solid DPS. I don't even have the best gear to be honest, I am sure it could be higher. Actual gear I currently have listed below to hit stated numbers.

Defensively: I am sitting in reaper at around 2,600 hp, 5,800 sp, evasion (good save), 30% dodge, 111 PRR, 89MRR plus undead immunities. In R4 I cannot really die, in R6 you have to be a little more careful. In R10 I wish I had a bit more defense, you have to be careful, but not more so than a DG Wizard.

Spell rotations are also solid:
CC: Mass Hold/Color Spray random other stuff on occasion
AOE: Dragon Breath (Fire), Meteor Swarm, DB Fireball, Arcane Tempest, (Necrotic Blast/Chain Lightning/Cold Sphere/Ball Lightning) filler
Single Target: Greater Ruin (Intensified), Iceberg, Thunderstroke, Meteor Swarm, Arcane Tempest, Ruin (Intensified), Necrotic Ray, Polar Ray
Instant Killing: Finger, PK, Trap the Soul, Circle of Death, Wail

Note: Too lazy to post all the choices, don't take stuff that sucks like summons etc...

Tiefling Wizard 20
Str 8
Dex 8
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 10

Feats: (7 + 5WB)
1-Quicken
1-(WB) Maximize
3-Arcane Initiate
5-(WB) Empower
6-Insightful Reflexes
9-Mental Toughness
10-(WB) Extend
12-Heighten
15-GSF Necromancy
15-(WB) SF Necromancy
18-Improved Mental Toughness
20-(WB) Enlarge
21-Epic SF Necromancy
22-Epic Spellpower Fire
24-Embolden
25-Epic Spell Power Force
27-Ruin
28-Crush Weakness
30-Scion of Shadowfell
30-Greater Ruin
31-Spell Specialty Illusion



Enhancements (97)
PM - 41
Falconry -25
Racial - 16
Feydark - 15


Epic Destiny (73)
Draconic - 36
Magus - 21
Shadowdancer - 16

Gear
Elders Cap
Legendary Dusk Lenses
Legendary Order's Garb
Legendary Aetherband
Legendary Shattered Onyx
Legendary Spinneret
Legendary Deepsnow Boots
Dino Artifact (20/10/5 Fire Critical Damage, +2 Sacred DC)
Legendary Walking Ancestor's Shroud
Legendary Silverthread Belt (can swap to Legendary Thrummingspark or pretty much anything here)
Epic Gem of Many Facets (Force Lore, Int +14, Ins. Force SP)
Elder's Focus
Legendary Wild Flame
Legendary Wreckage of the Drowned Rat


Augments
Topaz of Evocation Power
Topaz of Necromancy Power
Topaz of Conjuration Power
Topaz of Greater Evocation
Topaz of Greater Necormancy
Topaz of Greater Conjuration
Topaz of Greater Enchantment
Topaz of Greater Illusion
Sapphire of False Life
Sapphire of Resistance
Ruby of Magnitism
Ruby of Impulse
Festive Int
Festive Con
Globe of Imperial Blood
Topaz of Feather Falling
Diamond of Constitution
Diamond of Spellcraft
Dodge

[MaeveTuohy]

Archmage and Warpriest are probably the two trees most due for an update. Both would open up a lot of playstyle that people are always asking for, in two of D&Ds most timeless classes

Along with monks.

[Eme]

Along with monks.

^ can confirm

[Raithe]

Wizards, in contrast to sorcerors, have extremely strong symbiosis with classes that use intelligence as a primary stat, most notably rogue. If you are contemplating a highly-specialized end game build, then you simply don't understand the nature of power creep games. Ultra specialization in power creep games is extremely gimp. You are likely to have statistics that far surpass what is needed in 99% of content, and not enough survivability or utility in 50% of content.

Wizard may not be the best class in the game currently, but over the history of DDO Wizard has more than its fair share of time on the top of the pecking order. Stop advocating for boosts to particular classes - what the game actually needs is a balance repass to eliminate virtual exploits and bring purpose to all the classes in the game. As I noted and others in this thread, Wizard already has many purposes that other classes lack.

[jskinner937]

Here is the thing I never understood about wizard casting ability, as compared to sorc.....

Sorcs have innate casting ability so their casting speed is more instant compared to wizards, as theirs is cast from memory. But wizards have far greater casting ability than sorc overall.

So yeah wizards can change spell at shirnes and taverns, however as compared to sorcs, they have less casting ability (spell points) and slower casting speed. This seems like a bad interpretation from pnp lore to gameplay in DDO.

[Fisto_Mk_I]

Along with monks.

Monks is good... very good... as long as you don't try play melee...

[jskinner937]

Wizards, in contrast to sorcerors, have extremely strong symbiosis with classes that use intelligence as a primary stat, most notably rogue. If you are contemplating a highly-specialized end game build, then you simply don't understand the nature of power creep games. Ultra specialization in power creep games is extremely gimp. You are likely to have statistics that far surpass what is needed in 99% of content, and not enough survivability or utility in 50% of content.

Wizard may not be the best class in the game currently, but over the history of DDO Wizard has more than its fair share of time on the top of the pecking order. Stop advocating for boosts to particular classes - what the game actually needs is a balance repass to eliminate virtual exploits and bring purpose to all the classes in the game. As I noted and others in this thread, Wizard already has many purposes that other classes lack.

The biggest issue with wizard is not ultra specialization (thats sorc and they are fine), but no specialization. And the answer to multiclass a caster is not the right one at all. Pure wizard should be a build choice. Outside of palemaster and EK, wizards have no trees that help them actually specialize in anything.

I have no idea what you were trying to say about balance, but balancing is really the biggest issue with the current direction of the game. Nerfing one class or playstyle to oblivion to make others more useful is a terrible design goal and we have had plenty of that. It is absolutely time to bring up other classes that wer left or nerfed behind. Wizard (archmage specifically), Monk (Shintao specifically), Cleric (Warpriest specifcally) all have very little to offer.