Please Revamp: The Coalescence Chamber

[Smokewolf]

Ran the coalescence chamber today to re-flag for Shav and I have to say that this is 100%, without a doubt the most tedious quest in all of DDO.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind the quest, except for a few Gripes...

G1) Once the main boss has been killed, other optional mobs will prevent the quests completion. (Defeat the fiendish ambush)
Most likely this will force the player / group to re-run the entire instance looking that singular trash mob.

G2) The end rewards / exp, doesn't come close to the mount of time required to run it.

Suggestions:
S1) Remove "Defeat the fiendish ambush" or make it optional.

S2) Setup Shav flagging to be permanent (forever) once completed. Yeah, sure if a player wants needs to mats for another GS item it can be re-run but otherwise due to G2 its pointless.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Smoke

[Sunnie]

Making the fiendish ambush optional: Yes.
Changing Heroic Shroud flagging: No.

I've personally never run into the problem of a troglodyte surviving and preventing quest completion, but I've heard of it several times. It would be a small change and it's not like it would make the quest drastically shorter if we had the option of skipping it. They're usually all dead in about a minute anyway.

Making us permanently flagged for all lives by running the quests once would mean some of those quests would hardly ever get run any more and getting a group for them might be next to impossible. Players who are new to the quests would have much more difficulty finding groups for them, and even more difficulty trying to solo them. The only changes I think are needed is fixing that glitch where you recall to the 12 instead of Meridia from the wilderness, and then placing an NPC in or outside Meridia who can send you to the quests (maybe once you've explored the wilderness, like Gianthold or Orchard).

[AlcoArgo]

Ran the coalescence chamber today to re-flag for Shav and I have to say that this is 100%, without a doubt the most tedious quest in all of DDO.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind the quest, except for a few Gripes...

G1) Once the main boss has been killed, other optional mobs will prevent the quests completion. (Defeat the fiendish ambush)
Most likely this will force the player / group to re-run the entire instance looking that singular trash mob.

G2) The end rewards / exp, doesn't come close to the mount of time required to run it.

Suggestions:
S1) Remove "Defeat the fiendish ambush" or make it optional.

S2) Setup Shav flagging to be permanent (forever) once completed. Yeah, sure if a player wants needs to mats for another GS item it can be re-run but otherwise due to G2 its pointless.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Smoke

The fiendish ambush isn't optional. If it shows up that way in your XP report (would need to run again to check) that is an error. In any case, this is a mistake you should make only once in your DDO career. (FYI - a similar mechanic exists for VON 4 that trapped me (once) when I was a capped toon zerging for favor. Even though you have killed the main golem, you have to kill the 2 golems that appear late in the room after the wheel puzzle and before the run to the end.)

No, Shroud flagging should not be permanent. You are on a new life and need to flag. Be glad that several years ago the devs got rid of the requirement to reflag every time you wanted to run a raid, as was the mechanic for a few of the older raids.

Finally, you think it is bad today? You must not have been around before the air jets were installed to quickly send you up the shafts.

[ChicagoChris]

The fiendish ambush isn't optional. If it shows up that way in your XP report (would need to run again to check) that is an error. In any case, this is a mistake you should make only once in your DDO career. (FYI - a similar mechanic exists for VON 4 that trapped me (once) when I was a capped toon zerging for favor. Even though you have killed the main golem, you have to kill the 2 golems that appear late in the room after the wheel puzzle and before the run to the end.)

No, Shroud flagging should not be permanent. You are on a new life and need to flag. Be glad that several years ago the devs got rid of the requirement to reflag every time you wanted to run a raid, as was the mechanic for a few of the older raids.

Finally, you think it is bad today? You must not have been around before the air jets were installed to quickly send you up the shafts.

The only thing I would like is fixing some of the climbs/jumps to work better with the large body models. Climbing as a gnome/halfling or even a human is *so* much easier then as a HORC or PDK. Every time I have to jump I hit my head and get bounced down...

[PsychoBlonde]

The only thing I would like is fixing some of the climbs/jumps to work better with the large body models. Climbing as a gnome/halfling or even a human is *so* much easier then as a HORC or PDK. Every time I have to jump I hit my head and get bounced down...

Yeah, just making the pathway a bit wider in some places so that you don't get wedged in an undercut trying to stay on the path would be welcome, but overall it's really not that bad of a quest now that it has the air jets and everything.

[vryxnr]

The fiendish ambush isn't optional. ...

He's saying that he thinks it SHOULD be optional. Hence, a suggestion to make things better (you know, this whole subforum).

[Thrudh]

Personally, I LOVE Coal Chamber...

Except that you have to run up the shaft TWICE.

Once would be enough.

But that's a pretty huge change, so I don't expect it to happen.

[Smokewolf]

He's saying that he thinks it SHOULD be optional. Hence, a suggestion to make things better (you know, this whole subforum).

Exactly... Cant stand having to re-run an already finished mission because 1 "required" mob managed to avoid detection or got stuck in a wall.

[Kinerd]

doing favor runs everywhere during the free content period has really driven home how much quest design has improved over the years

coal chamber is justifiably notorious but there are sooooooo many old quests that take a good to decent idea and beat it all the way into the ground, rapidly becoming tedious. throw in how wildly the reward/time ratio has gone up and the improvement is extremely palpable

the #1 revamp to old quests i would want is the recent (i've been gone for years so cut me some slack on that) introduction of 'you can teleport directly to the quest entrance' npcs for every pack. vale isn't even that bad at this (reaver's reach? sands???) but it's an absolute gimme putt of low work high player satisfaction design. i'd even be happy with the 'you have to have been there once first' routine, but with the ravenloft style i'd be ecstatic

[Buddha5440]

Yeah, just making the pathway a bit wider in some places so that you don't get wedged in an undercut trying to stay on the path would be welcome, but overall it's really not that bad of a quest now that it has the air jets and everything.

Wider ledges for sure...Other than that, one of my favorite quests.

G1) Once the main boss has been killed, other optional mobs will prevent the quests completion. (Defeat the fiendish ambush)

As for the Ambush, never seen one stuck in a wall (they are all pretty easy to find) and it's not an optional so you shouldn't proceed until it's completed.

What needs a revamp is the named items from older quests. I remember when I got my 2nd Epic Chimera's Fang for my TWF Pally...Fun times... Now they are pretty much useless, especially since he can't get Bastard Sword as a favored weapon.

[Krelar]

As for the Ambush, never seen one stuck in a wall (they are all pretty easy to find) and it's not an optional so you shouldn't proceed until it's completed.

It's not optional but it's possible to kill the end boss without ever triggering the objective which leaves you with no idea what you are missing. I've read of people who tried ddooring right after getting the key because they thought it would be easier to find their way back from the start having this issue.

[Buddha5440]

It's not optional but it's possible to kill the end boss without ever triggering the objective which leaves you with no idea what you are missing. I've read of people who tried ddooring right after getting the key because they thought it would be easier to find their way back from the start having this issue.

So basically, they read some of the wiki (not the whole thing) and never even tried to learn the quest by running it. Otherwise, why would they even think of DD'ing. All they knew was where they needed to end up and not what was required between where they were and the end. I don't feel bad for them at all. If you want to use the wiki to run all your quests, at least read the whole dang article.

-the last bit was not directed at you Krelar, just those whose posts you were referring to.

[Krelar]

So basically, they read some of the wiki (not the whole thing) and never even tried to learn the quest by running it. Otherwise, why would they even think of DD'ing. All they knew was where they needed to end up and not what was required between where they were and the end. I don't feel bad for them at all. If you want to use the wiki to run all your quests, at least read the whole dang article.

-the last bit was not directed at you Krelar, just those whose posts you were referring to.

I could totally see a new player doing that on their first run with no prior knowledge.
They finally found the key but aren't sure how to get back to the top from where they are, so they ddoor figuring they know they passed it once so starting from the beginning will get them there eventually.
Just a minor adjustment so the ambush triggers as soon as you grab the key would help with that though.

[Smokewolf]

Like most players, i run this quest once in a blue-moon and only for flagging. Now despite often running with skilled groups, this quest often takes over an hour. Now sure there are those that can work it in under 30 minutes but thats often not the case.

Keep in mind, Its something to be said that the most frustrating mission in the entire game can’t be reworked to both make the experience more enjoyable and provide an end reward worthy of the time spent. But sure what-ever, keep it as is. If changing something damages your sense of elitism and pride.

Meanwhile the rest of us would like to be able to flag without having to devote half a day to running what amounts to a time sink to nowhere.

[Kinerd]

Like most players, i run this quest once in a blue-moon and only for flagging. Now despite often running with skilled groups, this quest often takes over an hour. Now sure there are those that can work it in under 30 minutes but thats often not the case.

Keep in mind, Its something to be said that the most frustrating mission in the entire game can’t be reworked to both make the experience more enjoyable and provide an end reward worthy of the time spent. But sure what-ever, keep it as is. If changing something damages your sense of elitism and pride.

Meanwhile the rest of us would like to be able to flag without having to devote half a day to running what amounts to a time sink to nowhere.

are you running on normal?

[timmy9999]

are you running on normal?

I haven't run it for prob a year and soloed it on r1 and it took 45mins. Taking a few wrong turns etc. Full group clearing trash etc, 30 mins should be doable. I had 4 toons piking at the start..

[Smokewolf]

are you running on normal?

Solo, I run EE and in a grp R+ depending on the level spread vs the quest. However once over the level range for the quest, yes I do drop it down but its not like the hardness makes a difference in how long it takes. The quest is just over done, under rewarded and the required (to kill) non-boss mobs, poorly though out.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Yeah, just making the pathway a bit wider in some places so that you don't get wedged in an undercut trying to stay on the path would be welcome, but overall it's really not that bad of a quest now that it has the air jets and everything.

This, ever since day 1. Those pathways and switchbacks are terrible.

[Kinerd]

Solo, I run EE and in a grp R+ depending on the level spread vs the quest. However once over the level range for the quest, yes I do drop it down but its not like the hardness makes a difference in how long it takes. The quest is just over done, under rewarded and the required (to kill) non-boss mobs, poorly though out.

i think if you try running on normal you will be pleasantly surprised with how quickly it goes, and since you flag just the same on normal or r10 you're not missing much

[Captain_Wizbang]

The quest is just over done, under rewarded and the required (to kill) non-boss mobs, poorly though out.

I 100% disagree. It IS dated yes, but poorly thought out is so wrong.

The design is solid, and it plays like it should for that level before CitW and massive power creep.

The "issue" isn't the quest in any way, even if you are required to kill certain monsters. Its called a quest objective. The issue is power creep that invalidates almost all older content.