Update 57 Official Release Notes

[LavidDynch]

nah, that's as much whistle blowing as I am gonna do. I will just tell you that all those sacrifices are worth it and there are several easy paths to it. as more people figure it out you will start to see it more. what I have seen personally is dps that far outweighs any current top dps build, and that's while IPS is active. that is, damage to one target, which can still hit multiple, just for clarity. 28 is very easy, 35 is reasonably difficult and 42 is likely possible. those are the thresholds.

Is it just me or did someone fart in here?

j/k you can DM me the build if you want. I´ll hold my tounge.

[ivorycoaster]

Ah okay so what you are saying is MIN MAXERS are ruining things. Got it. So maybe... maybe instead of messing with people's characters with this whole unasked for imbue change and making EVERYTHING stack (which anyone would guess a min-maxer will find a way to blow everyone else off the ship) they could have... oh I don't know... not made these changes in the first place? Because I was happy with my characters as they were and while I don't mind minor changes these whole swipe the pieces off the board and remake the game changes are really starting to ruin my fun. I don't want my characters to be KING, kings get the cow from orbit nerf bombs. I want upper-middle steady fun with not so many moving parts I have to have a gaming mouse and all my shortcut bars out.

So how about this for an idea... remove the buff to Shiradi. Was it asked for? Was it needed? I want to play exactly as well as I was playing in heroics I do not want my heroic Inqs nerfed to Shavarath just so epics aren't OP. IF epics are where they are going to be OP target the dang nerf to the problem.

i'm just gonna parrot what i told you earlier in the lamannia preview forums. this game will never be built and balanced around people who are comfortable being in a stagnant build. those people usually don't get their way, but in this case, the vocal minority did get their way, via buffs to a tree that would have already overperformed after updates. it's absolutely your right to ask for those things, but this is the result. and by the way, i believe you were the one running the 10/10 pally split. most splits people run are 2, 6, 12, or with rogue any odd number. so you are nerfing yourself by not planning out your build well. there is only a massive buff to potential, including in heroics, separate from the dice and scaling increase. it's a universal tree, benefitting from a newly universal dice change.

[rabidfox]

The sword Thirteen seems to have wrong binding status for a quest weapon. Shouldn't it be Bind to Account like other quest items? I only got the heroic version and saw the wrong binding status, but I assume the legendary version could potentially be wrong too.

[nicklesmack]

now you can easily get over 28 imbue dice.

Easily? Dang i am really terrible at this game evidently

I built my cap inquisitive as 12Rog/6Rgr/2Art as scourge and I have 8 bonus dice at log-in. I was neutral so will pick up +2 w/ Chaos Feat with the heart respec, +1 with the emerald augment and redo my filigrees to pick up maybe +4 more. I saw I could play around with heroic enhancements to pick up +3 toxin in rogue tree. Think that puts me at 18 or so...anything past that is nowhere near easy.

I think 18 is a lot and worth that effort for sure as even that appears to be pretty powerful. I would need tips for more than that

[Aelonwy]

i'm just gonna parrot what i told you earlier in the lamannia preview forums. this game will never be built and balanced around people who are comfortable being in a stagnant build. those people usually don't get their way, but in this case, the vocal minority did get their way, via buffs to a tree that would have already overperformed after updates. it's absolutely your right to ask for those things, but this is the result. and by the way, i believe you were the one running the 10/10 pally split. most splits people run are 2, 6, 12, or with rogue any odd number. so you are nerfing yourself by not planning out your build well. there is only a massive buff to potential, including in heroics, separate from the dice and scaling increase. it's a universal tree, benefitting from a newly universal dice change.

I didn't ask for the imbue changes. I don't care about min-maxing. I'm not asking to be stagnant, I'm asking not to be forced to remake my characters every update or every other update because of sweeping game changes. I want NEW content, new quests, new worlds to explore. I'm sick and tired of playing yahtzee with character and game mechanics shaking up the meta constantly like they're trying to make us ante up with +heart purchases, character respecs, sentient kits, $$ pay up to get your character back to your own standard or quit. And NOT incidentally these sorts of sweeping changes ALWAYS seem to come with some unintended side-effect giving the keys to the kingdom to anyone willing to open their wallet and blend their character like a salsa into the new mini-god. But cow-from-orbit will ALWAYS follow usually when the NEW-New-thing is ready making time, and money spent on your character salsa wasted and splash damage will ruin many things that went into that salsa.

So I'm sorry if neither I nor my characters live up to your standards of character building. I enjoyed them just as they were. And I'm sorry to SSG that constant sweeping game changes are putting me off... but I've been around for so, so, very many of them. And furthermore I've been around for so much unnecessary fallout of cow-from-orbit nerfs caused DIRECTLY by their design decisions that I'm beyond being cynical about this game.

[nicklesmack]

I haven't even looked at all into what this does to my ES warlock, don't have the bandwidth yet. My Barbarian tho which i play a lot right now, i get 15-100 points of bane damage. I think i have +5 bonus dice, I don't have near enough points to get to the frenzy upgrade...it would be a completely different character for me to put that many into 'zerker so not an option for this life. That damage is much lower than what it was before....may 50%. And i remember spike bane damage in the hundreds that doesn't happen anymore.

[salmag]

snip

IMHO, one of the big problems with how SSG is using Lamania is that they're not looking for feedback. They've already decided and implemented changes. They're just looking for bug/tweaks. So, no matter how bad the strategy is, once Lam opens, that's it. My advice would be to post the general design/intent well BEFORE any implementation is done. That way, there's no existing work to pitch out if people point out flaws.

I said this years ago, and was blasted by the fanbois community. Maybe those same fanbois are the people SSG is listening to. HAHAHA. I make myself laugh. SSG doesn't listen to it's community, period.

That's why I pretty much stopped caring.

[LavidDynch]

I didn't ask for the imbue changes. I don't care about min-maxing. I'm not asking to be stagnant, I'm asking not to be forced to remake my characters every update or every other update because of sweeping game changes..

If optimizing isn´t an issue, why even bother? You should be least affected by any change... so... To me it sounds like your going real hard on the "I´m not min-max" angle, like not being one of 'those' is some kind of virtue... while your feets and hands are clearly doing everything they can to min-max. funny huh?

[yfernbottom]

I haven't had a chance to play around with it yet. But on paper is does really look like multiclass builds, along with a few very specific filigrees, that do their best to break the system by stacking up absurd numbers of dice . . . any other build consideration be damned . . .are the way to go.

[Aelonwy]

If optimizing isn´t an issue, why even bother? You should be least affected by any change... so... To me it sounds like your going real hard on the "I´m not min-max" angle, like not being one of 'those' is some kind of virtue... while your feets and hands are clearly doing everything they can to min-max. funny huh?

No. I'm not laughing. I'm coming at this from the perspective of how it originally showed up on Lamannia, with a HUGE HEROIC nerf to Inq in order to directly make room for all the STACKING nonsense to which they were preparing to throw open the floodgates. That's on them. They make these design decisions "let everything stack" and lets just add more stacking here, there, and everywhere. If you comb through the Lamannia threads you will see I did NOT ask for extra previously non-existent stacking imbue dice anywhere. I did not even realize they were going to allow ALL filigree imbue dice bonuses to stack. I asked only that the damage and substance of my Inq character NOT be nerfed into the ground in heroics without having to rebuild my character.

They have to KNOW that when they let EVERYTHING stack someone, somewhere is going to go out of their way to make a Frankenstein's monster to take advantage of every stacking benefit they can and no matter how much contortion is required, no matter how much has to be relinquished and forsaken for such a build they will use it to mathematically prove something, somewhere must be nerfed. AND the history of the game tells me it will NEVER be the right thing just the easiest. So already we have a min-maxer claiming its Inq that needs to be nerfed when most of the Shenanigans are clearly over-stacking and additional benefits in epics.

So if you want to know what I would advocate:
Remove the buff to Shiradi, no amount of imbue die buffs Shiradi mantle.
Pick one filigree set that gives bonus imbue die/dice, the bonus elemental damage was previously limited to only one so too should be the imbue die/dice.
There that immediately cuts down on some of the shenanigans.

If further nerfs are needed continue to reduce what stacks because clearly this EVERYTHING stacks was a road map for trouble.

So no optimizing isn't the issue for me, maintaining what I had before without rebuilding my character very much IS!

[ivorycoaster]

No. I'm not laughing. I'm coming at this from the perspective of how it originally showed up on Lamannia, with a HUGE HEROIC nerf to Inq in order to directly make room for all the STACKING nonsense to which they were preparing to throw open the floodgates. That's on them. They make these design decisions "let everything stack" and lets just add more stacking here, there, and everywhere. If you comb through the Lamannia threads you will see I did NOT ask for extra previously non-existent stacking imbue dice anywhere. I did not even realize they were going to allow ALL filigree imbue dice bonuses to stack. I asked only that the damage and substance of my Inq character NOT be nerfed into the ground in heroics without having to rebuild my character.

They have to KNOW that when they let EVERYTHING stack someone, somewhere is going to go out of their way to make a Frankenstein's monster to take advantage of every stacking benefit they can and no matter how much contortion is required, no matter how much has to be relinquished and forsaken for such a build they will use it to mathematically prove something, somewhere must be nerfed. AND the history of the game tells me it will NEVER be the right thing just the easiest. So already we have a min-maxer claiming its Inq that needs to be nerfed when most of the Shenanigans are clearly over-stacking and additional benefits in epics.

So if you want to know what I would advocate:
Remove the buff to Shiradi, no amount of imbue die buffs Shiradi mantle.
Pick one filigree set that gives bonus imbue die/dice, the bonus elemental damage was previously limited to only one so too should be the imbue die/dice.
There that immediately cuts down on some of the shenanigans.

If further nerfs are needed continue to reduce what stacks because clearly this EVERYTHING stacks was a road map for trouble.

So no optimizing isn't the issue for me, maintaining what I had before without rebuilding my character very much IS!

it was never a nerf to inquis in heroics, it was a massive buff to inquis in heroics, and a nerf to your build. there's a big difference there.

[Aelonwy]

it was never a nerf to inquis in heroics, it was a massive buff to inquis in heroics, and a nerf to your build. there's a big difference there.

No. Sorry, going from 14 law die to 8 law die was a nerf no two ways about it.

Did they buff other things that someone could multiclass and take advantage of to improve their character? Yes, but I would have to give up things I want and already enjoy to build my character back up to what DPS she had before... before I could even begin to actually improve my character at all.

Are you against the epic nerfs I suggested? Would they not cut back on some of the min-maxing shenanigans?

Is it NOT the stacking everything that is the root of the problem?

If everything stacks then players that want the most from such a system are forced *cough* heavily encouraged to stack as much as possible... leading to...insanity. I did not do this, their own design decisions led here.

[elvesunited]

If everything stacks then players that want the most from such a system are forced *cough* heavily encouraged to stack as much as possible... leading to...insanity. I did not do this, their own design decisions led here.

--- As ordered one insane Inquisitive ---

Ranger 3 (arcane archer) 12 AP ( +4 Imbue Dice )
Harper 12 AP ( Int for hit and damage )
Alchemist 15 ( vile ) 6 AP ( +5 Imbue Dice and +2 from Greater elemental weapons )
artificer 2 ( for feats, traps and rune arm )
Inquisitive 41 AP ( +7 Imbue Dice )

[Arkat]

The sword Thirteen seems to have wrong binding status for a quest weapon. Shouldn't it be Bind to Account like other quest items? I only got the heroic version and saw the wrong binding status, but I assume the legendary version could potentially be wrong too.

Yes, the Legendary version is also BTC.

[Shall]

It looks like the sickle is btc as well for some reason.

[Arkat]

It looks like the sickle is btc as well for some reason.

Yep, I think you're right.

[Discpsycho]

--- As ordered one insane Inquisitive ---

Ranger 3 (arcane archer) 12 AP ( +4 Imbue Dice )
Harper 12 AP ( Int for hit and damage )
Alchemist 15 ( vile ) 6 AP ( +5 Imbue Dice and +2 from Greater elemental weapons )
artificer 2 ( for feats, traps and rune arm )
Inquisitive 41 AP ( +7 Imbue Dice )

Swap Arti 2 for Rogue 2; trapping, evasion and 3 imbue dice from your remaining 8 points (Assassin T2). Since Inq is D10, unless the 2 arti makes gearing that much easier, the extra dice are likely better. Don't really need feats with both Alch and Ranger

[ivorycoaster]

Swap Arti 2 for Rogue 2; trapping, evasion and 3 imbue dice from your remaining 8 points (Assassin T2). Since Inq is D10, unless the 2 arti makes gearing that much easier, the extra dice are likely better. Don't really need feats with both Alch and Ranger

this. you could roll this as a first lifer and steamroll through every piece of content in the game all the way up to r10s at cap, if you have the gear and a maxed sent jewel ready. this is why they need to go back to d8 and 150%, and probably even proc shiradi half as often as other ranged (akin to half the doubleshot.) only problem is the threat gen, because it's hard to fit enough for the massive amount of damage to not constantly take aggro. it would still be ungodly strong with this change i believe.

[elvesunited]

Swap Arti 2 for Rogue 2; trapping, evasion and 3 imbue dice from your remaining 8 points (Assassin T2). Since Inq is D10, unless the 2 arti makes gearing that much easier, the extra dice are likely better. Don't really need feats with both Alch and Ranger

Yep I missed the assassin dice.

so 1 base die + 7 inquisitive + 5 Vile Chemist + 4 Arcane Archer + 2 Elemental Weapon spell + 3 Assassin = 22 dice from enhancement and spell alone.

add equipment and feats and the numbers get even higher. the biggest problem I see is that this sort of build is begging for a nerf.

[misterski]

Yep I missed the assassin dice.

so 1 base die + 7 inquisitive + 5 Vile Chemist + 4 Arcane Archer + 2 Elemental Weapon spell + 3 Assassin = 22 dice from enhancement and spell alone.

add equipment and feats and the numbers get even higher. the biggest problem I see is that this sort of build is begging for a nerf.

Don't forget the 2 imbue dice from drow if you have the racial AP for it.