Update 57 Official Release Notes

[amessi1]

lots of great stuff changed in u57...but, but...it's gonna rob my Rouge Assassin of either hit points or dps, so either way i'm the loser.

the forum-ites on lama begged for the hit point bonus to be moved to a different t5 enhancement...lots of good examples already in this thread, though personally I just wanted to have a net wash...no buff nor nerf. though presently, despite my dislike of epic_defensive_fighting, i'd prefer to have it back...which is why i'm sad.

[Blaze_the_Unholy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverw..._the_Underdark

You're using a freaking DnD video game to try and argue a point about the actual tabletop game. Your argument is completely invalid.

Let me role this back even further: you do know DnD is a tabletop RPG, right? When someone makes a video game of the tabletop game, the video game's rules do not apply.

Although the table of the Epic Level Handbook from 3rd ED appears at first to only go to 30, you can see that it has an indefinite scaling formula.
In other words, we've had unlimited level cap in pen and paper D&D for at least as long as DDO has been around.
Even if tables rarely (if ever) had characters go that high, there's still precedence.

[slarden]

lots of great stuff changed in u57...but, but...it's gonna rob my Rouge Assassin of either hit points or dps, so either way i'm the loser.

the forum-ites on lama begged for the hit point bonus to be moved to a different t5 enhancement...lots of good examples already in this thread, though personally I just wanted to have a net wash...no buff nor nerf. though presently, despite my dislike of epic_defensive_fighting, i'd prefer to have it back...which is why i'm sad.

My assassin is gaining 260 hp just from the change to heroic durability. Was 6 per level and now is 8 per level with an 8 bonus per level with 4 twf feats which every assassin has. That is 200 at level 20. Another 60 bonus at level 30. That is before multipliers including the 25%.

The T5/EDF is a wash but there were so many times I had to turn off EDF to throw a raise or provide a heal - I definitely won't be missing it even a little.

People build differently, but from my perspective light armor mastery is fantastic for R10s as you gain 6% dodge which is the most broken ability in R10s available as it's not debuffed by skull unlike displacement and ghostly. The 6 prr is just a bonus.

Thematically is belongs with the only defensive feat in T5 but I am fine if they move it to something else. I just think for 3 AP 6% dodge for R10s is a really good investment on it's own.

The AP spend for assassin is definitely tight with so much offensive goodness in VKF, but I don't think spending 3 AP on light armor mastery is going to move the needle significantly on dps, yet moves the needle massively on survivability.

[cmecu]

So two rounds of questions around why the nerf to Animal domain and FvS Stout of Heart and how this negatively affects healers, a big FU to us, thanks.

And I will second and third the comment on why are these changes are even happening. No one asked for them. And until you fix all the stuff that is broken, that people actually care about, there is NO NEED TO SHAKE THINGS UP.

Stuff this where the sun doesn't shine.

ANd I will 4th or 5th , or whatever it.. havent went thru all the comments yet.. Maybe it is something nice, maybe it isnt, but I think most of the DDO community, whats left of them, would like to see current issues fixed first.. then after that see where the game can evolve to.

Here is the thing, any player who has been playing a while, has got a feel for most of the classes, builds, and gear. You know how to run content.. you have a routine. But now, the whole thing is shook upside down. Do we really want to spend endless hours again trying to figure out different builds all over again? Endlessly redoing our enhancement trees, and epic destiny trees , swapping feats around? Trying to figure out what stat to use as main damage...? What gear to use for optimal performance.. and maybe even having to now go farm for gear for a build..

Its like they are increasing the complexity of a game, that is already complex with its creation and character development system.

And I get it, they want to make stuff fresh and new.. but the reality is, this is an old game, with old code, old engine.. and lots of already existing issues.
Your not going to put an oversized cam, with Edlebrock high rise aluminum intake, and 4 barrel double pump Holly carburetor on your Yugo car and expect it to function properly.

Now we got yet another pack of quests with more gear, more items.. and NO BANK SPACE to put all of it.. come on guys.. please...

[cmecu]

At rough guess I would say it is to do with the level cap eventually reaching 40 (like the Epic Destiny changes). I dare say there will be other things that get changed over the coming months/years until level 40 arrives.

Stoner81.

At the rate they are going, will anyone be left playing by then?

[Gordo]

I played on Lamania, and the imbue system will be better for multiclass players, than it will be for singleclass builds. Any Enhancement tree, or feat/enhancement/ED source that gives imbue die will all stack together. Play a Alchemist thrower, for example, and put points into the Inquisitive tree, about 12-20 depending on how high you want to invest, will give you several Die that all stack, and all will enhance the imbue of your poison attacks. To build for imbue, you are going to sacrifice other things, and on Elite or R1 content, you will notice that its good DPS. At end game, getting about 30 Imbue Die, (not as high as you can get) I was getting about 8K damage every hit with a alchemist thrower build. What it will mean for end game? not much. Imbue's don't crit. You will get decent sustained DPS, but NO BURST DPS to speak of. Try a push raid or High Reaper content, and you will see its not nearly as strong as a High Ranged/Melee Power DPS characeter.

As far as the HP buffs go, what I liked most about this, was that on Lamania, many of the hit point bonus's were "multiselector" options, and they appear to have changed them to just "in addition to" so characters, should see an increase to over all health.

You will see end game characters really benefiting from the new "feat" bumps to HP. I have an end game shooter build, with 95% DS, and about 280 RP standing on the ship. I built my character using a few extra fighter levels, meaning I lost a couple of Sneak Attack Die, but picked up all 4 SWF feats. Tired of dying in High Reaper to one shots.

TYVM. interesting

[amessi1]

My assassin is gaining 260 hp just from the change to heroic durability. Was 6 per level and now is 8 per level with an 8 bonus per level with 4 twf feats which every assassin has. That is 200 at level 20. Another 60 bonus at level 30. That is before multipliers including the 25%.

The T5/EDF is a wash but there were so many times I had to turn off EDF to throw a raise or provide a heal - I definitely won't be missing it even a little.

People build differently, but from my perspective light armor mastery is fantastic for R10s as you gain 6% dodge which is the most broken ability in R10s available as it's not debuffed by skull unlike displacement and ghostly. The 6 prr is just a bonus.

Thematically is belongs with the only defensive feat in T5 but I am fine if they move it to something else. I just think for 3 AP 6% dodge for R10s is a really good investment on it's own.

The AP spend for assassin is definitely tight with so much offensive goodness in VKF, but I don't think spending 3 AP on light armor mastery is going to move the needle significantly on dps, yet moves the needle massively on survivability.

maybe i'm missing something here, but "Light Armor Mastery: Gain 2/4/6 to the Maximum Dexterity Bonus of light armor and gain 2/4/6 Physical Resistance Rating." which if this also did dodge cap, 100% slarden on board, but this appears to give AC & PRR

[Trillea]

maybe i'm missing something here, but "Light Armor Mastery: Gain 2/4/6 to the Maximum Dexterity Bonus of light armor and gain 2/4/6 Physical Resistance Rating." which if this also did dodge cap, 100% slarden on board, but this appears to give AC & PRR

Raising max dex bonus raises dodge cap in most circumstances.

[amessi1]

Raising max dex bonus raises dodge cap in most circumstances.

hmm...i thought the same, specifically for this enhancement, but the testing I did here did not support...it's only plat to test and easy to see in character sheet...i'd love it if I was wrong.

edit: I did test...the +6 max dex bonus does translate to dodge cap increase at a rate of 2 to 1....so to Slarden's point earlier 3 action points gets you +3 to dodge cap...which makes for an interesting build choices, so good on ya devs

[salmag]

snip

Now we got yet another pack of quests with more gear, more items.. and NO BANK SPACE to put all of it.. come on guys.. please...

I would like the release notes for U58 to be:

-All we're adding is Shared Bank Space.
That's it. No other changes. No Nerfs, No changes to systems...

[Arkat]

I would like the release notes for U58 to be:

-All we're adding is Shared Bank Space.
That's it. No other changes. No Nerfs, No changes to systems...

And bugfixes.

[Buddha5440]

Sooooo... from what I see here, AA's get a max + to imbue dice 2 less than that of VA's (9 vs 11) and AA's were originally made for the sole aspect of their IMBUES. Thanks for the slap in the face. It's already bad enough that AA's have a much worse RP cap than do many other enhancement lines (and they have ARCHER in the tree name), now you pretty much take away the one thing that made it worthwhile taking multiple tiers in the tree. At the very least, you could make force arrows only cost 1 AP/lv or add bonus imbue dice if you keep it at 2 AP/lv (6 AP to get force arrows at the same dice lv as any other imbue (from any other class) is a horrible burden to an already limited enhancement tree).

Not a fan of this update

[amessi1]

loving that I can use raise dead scrolls without having to be in touch range...such a huge qualify of life improvement!

[cmecu]

I would like the release notes for U58 to be:

-All we're adding is Shared Bank Space.
That's it. No other changes. No Nerfs, No changes to systems...

Me too. They could get rid of the TR cache.. And just have A shared Bank, Default starts at a decent amount. Think of how many items are in the game and start from there..5k pieces of gear in the game? Start with 2000 spaces default, and can buy extra slots in 100 space chunks.. or if they keep releasing content , they expand the default bank space...

There is no reason for them to keep introducing items into a game when people have no place to put it anymore.

[niknight]

Sooooo... from what I see here, AA's get a max + to imbue dice 2 less than that of VA's (9 vs 11) and AA's were originally made for the sole aspect of their IMBUES. Thanks for the slap in the face. It's already bad enough that AA's have a much worse RP cap than do many other enhancement lines (and they have ARCHER in the tree name), now you pretty much take away the one thing that made it worthwhile taking multiple tiers in the tree. At the very least, you could make force arrows only cost 1 AP/lv or add bonus imbue dice if you keep it at 2 AP/lv (6 AP to get force arrows at the same dice lv as any other imbue (from any other class) is a horrible burden to an already limited enhancement tree).

Not a fan of this update

VA and EK got extra imbue dice because their die size decreased from a max of d12 to a flat d8. Their damage at level 20 is almost exactly the same as it was (+/- 1 damage before spellpower). AA remained exactly the same with dice size, count and scaling. You didn't lose anything.

[Buddha5440]

VA and EK got extra imbue dice because their die size decreased from a max of d12 to a flat d8. Their damage at level 20 is almost exactly the same as it was (+/- 1 damage before spellpower). AA remained exactly the same with dice size, count and scaling. You didn't lose anything.

Not true... The most useful imbue AA's have is force which costs 6 AP just to get it to d8 (d4/d6/d8) their elemental imbues are all d8, and since VA's get 2 more dice than AA's that's about +/- 9 damage before spellpower. So yes, AA's didn't lose anything from this update, they gained absolutely nothing and they were built around imbues long before any other tree.

At the very least, AA's should get a bonus die per core or 2.

[droid327]

So yes, AA's didn't lose anything from this update, they gained absolutely nothing and they were built around imbues long before any other tree.

The goal of the update was to get all the existing imbue builds about where they were beforehand. No one got deliberately buffed by the changes.

the +6 max dex bonus does translate to dodge cap increase at a rate of 2 to 1

No thats not how it works. MDB is your functional dodge cap until you get it up to 27 (ie actual dodge cap, so higher if you have actual dodge cap bonuses). So if your MDB before the enhancement is 21 or less, and you have 27+ Dodge from all sources, then you get a full +6 functional Dodge.

If you had 24 MDB without the enhancement, then yeah its only going to boost you up +3 because then you hit actual dodge cap

[slarden]

Not true... The most useful imbue AA's have is force which costs 6 AP just to get it to d8 (d4/d6/d8) their elemental imbues are all d8, and since VA's get 2 more dice than AA's that's about +/- 9 damage before spellpower. So yes, AA's didn't lose anything from this update, they gained absolutely nothing and they were built around imbues long before any other tree.

At the very least, AA's should get a bonus die per core or 2.

Not all arcane archers are rangers, but if you are a ranger you gained a bunch of hp intended for melees since rangers are auto-granted twf, itw and gtf and that's on top of the 2/level rangers were gifted. That's definitely a net gain and rangers are unique among range builds that way benefiting from auto-granted melee feats.

No thats not how it works. MDB is your functional dodge cap until you get it up to 27 (ie actual dodge cap, so higher if you have actual dodge cap bonuses). So if your MDB before the enhancement is 21 or less, and you have 27+ Dodge from all sources, then you get a full +6 functional Dodge.

If you had 24 MDB without the enhancement, then yeah its only going to boost you up +3 because then you hit actual dodge cap

It does appear if I reset my enhancement tree my dodge cap is only going up by 3 instead of the advertised 6. However, I didn't dig far enough to see if the tree is granting less than the tooltip or I have a 3 dodge cap increase somewhere not stacking with the assassin tree.

Even if it's a stacking issue the enhancement should stack with everything so I consider this a bug.

[kaipan]

Sooooo... from what I see here, AA's get a max + to imbue dice 2 less than that of VA's (9 vs 11) and AA's were originally made for the sole aspect of their IMBUES. Thanks for the slap in the face. It's already bad enough that AA's have a much worse RP cap than do many other enhancement lines (and they have ARCHER in the tree name), now you pretty much take away the one thing that made it worthwhile taking multiple tiers in the tree. At the very least, you could make force arrows only cost 1 AP/lv or add bonus imbue dice if you keep it at 2 AP/lv (6 AP to get force arrows at the same dice lv as any other imbue (from any other class) is a horrible burden to an already limited enhancement tree).

Not a fan of this update

I don't think you have read the notes and how imbues work very closely if you think that's the max lol. All +imbue dice sum.

[cmecu]

Here is how Tiefling Scoundrel got torn apart in my build. Before Changes.. This is using The Hunters Handaxe which has each hit does X amount of sonic Damage on top of the slash damage.

Build is 12 Fighter, 5 Cleric animal domain, 3 bard Swashbuckling with buckler
Ill write type of damage and icons appearing ..

BEFORE CHANGES
I swing and hit target
Nothing added yet: Slash damage X , Sonic Damage X
add Scion of Feywild : Slash Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X
Add resonant arms: Slash Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X on crit
Add Tiefling cores1: Slash Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X on crit, Sonic Damage X at 75%HP
Add Tiefling cores3: Slash Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X on crit, Sonic Damage X at 75%HP, Sonic Damage X at 50%
Add Tiefling cores5: Slash Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X, Sonic Damage X on crit, Sonic Damage X at 75%HP, Sonic Damage X at 50%, Sonic Damage X at 25%

Now they made it where Tiefling core is an Imbue which doesnt work .. and they were told on Lammania Test server, Resonant Arms is now an Imbue also.. So I can no longer have both Resonant arms and Tielfing core together any more. They took tielfing scoundrel core 5 from scale with 200% spell power down to 100%

So in essence they completely obliterated a build I really enjoyed playing. They should be handing out free +20 after this mess of update so people can make changes they need. Not to mention, filligree swapping.. Augments.. etc.. I guess its great for them because they can hope to make some money from people having to buy woods and toolkits now.

If Tiefling Scoundrel Core Bloodsong wasnt broken, instead of seeing all that damage you see above..

AFTER CHANGES
It would be just 1 slash damage.. nothing else...until 75% then just 1 sonic icon.. that just scales up a little bit at 50% and at 25% enemy health..


Huge nerf to damage. But like I said its broken right now anyway , the toggle doesnt even work. Which is weird because it did on test server.