U57 Preview 2 Hit Point Pass

[amessi1]

Would you possibly consider putting this bonus in Knife Specialization instead?

I was thinking the same, please ????

(Rogue, Assassin, t5, hp comp bonus)

[Tilomere]

There are MANY other ways to keep a 25% bonus restricted to melee that don't kill current characters or drastically reduce the build space. Why not use one (as suggested in pass-1 thread) instead of hacking up all the trees trying to fixup the loss of EDF HP 1x1 for each and every build?

Because the player base won't let them, chicken and egg, which is why we are here now.

[Bjond]

Druid
T3,4,5 - Nature's Protector - Ursa line's restriction updated to be usable by druids in bear form either using shield or wearing medium or heavier armor.

This one really hurts. Not as a comparison between pre&post U57, but by comparing FVS & Cleric to Druid. Under U57, I can make a heal-tank using FVS or Cleric with a deep dive into Warsoul/priest and stay pure or mostly pure.

A druid heal tank can't avail themselves of the protector bonus even if they're in heavier armor and shield. They pretty much have to go with Druid/FTR for Stalwart and then likely give up on L9 spells if they want more than T3 Stalwart.

Because the player base won't let them, chicken and egg, which is why we are here now.

Heh. I don't think players are the cause here. Removing EDF is a laudable goal. I just think SSG is "stuck" on the T5 method like a Labrador with a Tennis Ball. When that finally gets lobbed into our court, it's gonna be covered in stinky dog-slobber.

Here's an idea that leans in a bit to the general T5 idea of a deep investment in a melee tree:

Keep the existing T5 ideas, but in those trees with T5 HP bonuses, duplicate that bonus in the L18 Core. So, a build can go deep and take the T5 or go wide and grab the C5. It's still 31+ AP in the same tree, just a LOT more flexible. This would cover all but one of the subT5 builds where I've used EDF in the past.

[SpardaX]

Lol yep, that rage would be pretty high. Like the actual player base would visit the forums for once, not just the vocal minority that it consists of now. Many of us spent a ton of time and money earning those points, and to have them taken away for cosmetics would not only be rage inducing but basically thievery of my time/money spent on those. No, cosmetics do NOT justify it.

Not to mention it would also be the death of reaper, and raid pushing.

They were never meant to have trees, or any power of any kind.
Reaper was always meant to just be a challenge difficulty, and was not meant to do anything beyond that. No power creep. No system behind it. No getting items and the meta scaled or defined by it. Just purely optional opt in challenge difficulty options. That was what the devs said, right up to the final Lams showing reaper off. And then it gets released on live, and has these silly trees.

I don't know who was behind it, but I think it was one of the worst decisions of the game. But that ship has sailed, sunk, and has been looted by divers at this point. But just in case you were unaware, they DO have plans for reaper, and those plans at least as of a while ago, did involve the trees going away. But not being replaced with just cosmetic stuff. Instead it was / is / should eventually be? (according to dev talks) replaced with a system where not only do you benefit with power, but people with less reaper power than you would also benefit from your power. (Just not to the degree that you do)

[Cashiry]

To those who are complaining about T5 being to high for the Hit point enhancements. your not losing anything.

if you can’t allocate 2 AP’s in any given tree to get the additional HP’s. 32 total spent in T5 don’t know what to tell you.

are there builds out there that aren’t putting at leas 32 AP’s into 1 specific enhancement tree? I haven’t ran across one. I guess it could happen.

[Xharath]

Second Wind Auto granted for fighter level 2. Active this ability to regain 50% of your max hit points. 15 second cool down. You can used this once per rest, with an additional charges gained at Fighter levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20. This can be used while Crowd Controlled. At level 8 Second Wind removes negative effects like the Panacea spell.

Nice that a fighter can heal itself, ill be blunt.

IT SUCKS! a fighter should not be able to heal itself its a fighter, not a cleric, ranger, druid, etc etc.

if a fighter gets a auto granted feat that enables him to cast 6x a heal like spel at level 20 (lets say at level 20 youll have 1200- 2000 hp it heals or 600-1000 points 6x with the damage reduction etc etc, overpowered is a understatement

again it sucks.

why not grant it for rogue then or give a other type of fighter a healing prop o wait thats called a paladin.............
or let it fight with hands and give it like a healing finishing move

[Xharath]

i feel that the rogue is being passed in this overhaul btw, (the melee, i must say the ranged rogues are OP as is)
you should consider making the assasinate non blockable (except red bosses), raise the dodge cap and make reapers not see all sneak) then skip the HP increase on the rogue, Just saying

[slarden]

It seems some people playing custom builds feel they are losing hp with these changes. The changes only help me.

Why not just keep EDF with it's restrictions as option for flavor builds. That way nobody can claim to be nerfed. As long as it doesn't stack with the new abilities I see no opportunity for abuse.

[WarDestroyer]

While most classes are getting +25% competence HP and no longer as restricted to touch-cast, Perfect Natural Fighting is still granting only +15% HP for wolves. Could you bump that to 20%, which becomes 25% with the primal bonus in NW?

[slarden]

i feel that the rogue is being passed in this overhaul btw, (the melee, i must say the ranged rogues are OP as is)
you should consider making the assasinate non blockable (except red bosses), raise the dodge cap and make reapers not see all sneak) then skip the HP increase on the rogue, Just saying

Second Wind Auto granted for fighter level 2. Active this ability to regain 50% of your max hit points. 15 second cool down. You can used this once per rest, with an additional charges gained at Fighter levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20. This can be used while Crowd Controlled. At level 8 Second Wind removes negative effects like the Panacea spell.

Nice that a fighter can heal itself, ill be blunt.

IT SUCKS! a fighter should not be able to heal itself its a fighter, not a cleric, ranger, druid, etc etc.

if a fighter gets a auto granted feat that enables him to cast 6x a heal like spel at level 20 (lets say at level 20 youll have 1200- 2000 hp it heals or 600-1000 points 6x with the damage reduction etc etc, overpowered is a understatement

again it sucks.

why not grant it for rogue then or give a other type of fighter a healing prop o wait thats called a paladin.............
or let it fight with hands and give it like a healing finishing move

I have no issues with fighters getting this as an assassin player and it seems they are mostly complaining it's not good enough - I don't know I didn't test it.

Rogue is fine at heroic levels with wand and scroll healing using UMD at least up to about R4. I would love to see a core or ability in shadowdancer increase the % for wand and scroll healing to match spellpower increases - maybe +10% per epic level. I would also like to see an ability that applies quicken to scrolls that rogues could get. The ability to unlock epic healing scrolls with favor would also be nice.

[Cashiry]

Why not just keep EDF with it's restrictions as option for flavor builds. That way nobody can claim to be nerfed. As long as it doesn't stack with the new abilities I see no opportunity for abuse.

no one should be losing HP’s from not having EDF. You still have the combat feets that now provide 25% each up to 100%. Your just getting access to each 25% sooner for each feet than having to wait until lvl 21.

[slarden]

no one should be losing HP’s from not having EDF. You still have the combat feets that now provide 25% each up to 100%. Your just getting access to each 25% sooner for each feet than having to wait until lvl 21.

the enhancements are a new addition to most. Enhancement trees.

tanks who were using EDF just need to re allocate 3 AP’s. Not a big deal.

It seems that way to me, but others seem to disagree

One of my builds is staying about the same. Most are getting hammered.

I think it's more of a hard nerf to build creativity. It only buffs what I'd call stale retread builds that blindly dump a lot of AP deep into a single tree.

As far as I can tell the fvs/cleric nerf is offset by the heroic durability change for divine melees. A few casting class melee trees are getting less than 20%, but very much worth the reduction to remove EDF in my opinion.

So not sure exactly how builds are getting hammered either, but it seems if they left EDF as an option, nobody except caster divines are getting any kind of nerf. If they are healing bot, take the shield feats and you are fine. If you are an aoe casting divine losing those hp - working as intended as far as I can tell.

But if there are some flavor builds I don't see much harm keeping EDF as a legacy option if that is what the complaint is about. Perhaps there is something bigger I am missing.

[Cashiry]

It seems that way to me, but others seem to disagree



As far as I can tell the fvs/cleric nerf is offset by the heroic durability change for divine melees. A few casting class melee trees are getting less than 20%, but very much worth the reduction to remove EDF in my opinion.

So not sure exactly how builds are getting hammered either, but it seems if they left EDF as an option, nobody except caster divines are getting any kind of nerf. If they are healing bot, take the shield feats and you are fine. If you are an aoe casting divine losing those hp - working as intended as far as I can tell.

But if there are some flavor builds I don't see much harm keeping EDF as a legacy option if that is what the complaint is about. Perhaps there is something bigger I am missing.

i just re read the opening post. Does not mention 25% per combat feet up to 100% that was proposed in preview 1. I am assuming that is now gone and they added enhancements to each tree that could have benefited from using EDF In It’s place.

[Stravix]

Hey this is an update to the hit point pass for Lammania preview 2. It's more buffy and less nerfy to people who are really on the high end, has some fighter perks in it.

*snip*

-Heroic Durability updated:

Heroic Durability - +30 Hit Points. In addition, for every melee combat style feat you take you gain a 25% bonus to the hit points gained from your class levels. Epic and Legendary levels count at half value. This bonus can only stack up to 100%.

i just re read the opening post. Does not mention 25% per combat feet up to 100% that was proposed in preview 1. I am assuming that is now gone and they added enhancements to each tree that could have benefited from using EDF In It’s place.

It's in there.

[Cashiry]

It's in there.

thanks, I thought it was. I guess I’m not sure why people are complaining about the new enhancements then. You really only need to take 2 AP’s from somewhere else and put them into the respective hp enhancements for your primary tree

[Torc]

While most classes are getting +25% competence HP and no longer as restricted to touch-cast, Perfect Natural Fighting is still granting only +15% HP for wolves. Could you bump that to 20%, which becomes 25% with the primal bonus in NW?

It should be 20% in this preview, if it's not it's a bug. I'll double check it's working.


-T

[Garix]

It's not end of the world but it's a minor annoyance (for me a least): Bladeforged Paladins.

To get the 25% HP in KoTC I have to take Healing Amp Enhancements. My current BF Pally is fully built and geared around repair amp so spending 4aps for bonuses I have no need for hurts a little.

Any chance of adding Repair Amp as well? Even half the value of heal amp would take some of the sting out.

[droid327]

It's not end of the world but it's a minor annoyance (for me a least): Bladeforged Paladins.

To get the 25% HP in KoTC I have to take Healing Amp Enhancements. My current BF Pally is fully built and geared around repair amp so spending 4aps for bonuses I have no need for hurts a little.

Any chance of adding Repair Amp as well? Even half the value of heal amp would take some of the sting out.

Imagine if you were a paladin/apostate split and you were forced to take neg amp penalties

[mikarddo]

i just re read the opening post. Does not mention 25% per combat feet up to 100% that was proposed in preview 1. I am assuming that is now gone and they added enhancements to each tree that could have benefited from using EDF In It’s place.

The +25% from combat feats is only to the small amount of hp gained from class levels - not to everything. So its not the same kind of "25%"

[ice584]

for every melee combat style feat you take you gain a 25% bonus to the hit points gained from your class levels. Epic and Legendary levels count at half value. This bonus can only stack up to 100%.

This simply requires you to spend a feat, and you'll permanently gain the bonus hitpoints, is that correct?
If not, and you only benefit from the hitpoints when you're actually in that combat style, what happens when a melee Fighter switches to a scroll to cast Raise Dead?

My expectation here is that every nuking caster will just either take some TWF or THF feats depending on whether he's wielding dual-sceptres or a qstaff and suffer virtually no ill effects (other than the feat slot(s)).
Is there some other drawback for casters that I'm totally missing here? Like some casting penalties while in a combat style or something?

I mean, if a caster was already taking the Toughness and Epic Toughness feats, I would expect it to be a no-brainer to take two of the Combat Style feats instead for +50% hitpoints, and probably not too much harder to justify another feat or two for another 25-50%.

I get that there's a lot of moving parts here, but this still just feels to me like a definite win for casters and a giant, fat question mark for melees.