U57 Preview 2 Hit Point Pass

[Propane]

Odd. If your running the Sacred Defender stance (with tenacious defense) the only change in HP should be from the the animal domain adjustment vs the combat style bonus. I think your build would come out going from a 320 animal domain bonus on live to.... 120 from cleric, 50 from fight/paladin, 60 from epic/legendary and 128 from new animal domain... 358... you should be gaining 38 hit points times hp% multiplier, AND be able to cast at range now....

So something is wrong.... maybe the combat style bonus isn't applying to you somehow? I will investigate.

-T

Thanks for the response - I re-logged and noticed that I had the CON bonus , not the HP bonus - as T3 Pally - respected AP to change to Tenacious...

Now at 3398 - so much less of a change at ~42 hp... thanks for posting-

Do shield feats count towards HP Stacking?

Propane

[IMG][/IMG]

[slarden]

Great changes adding Quality HP to fighter giving it more parity with paladin having the 10% sacred bonus. I like the hp restoration ability - seems like it will be great for R10s if it's not debuffed like healing.

[Cashiry]

Great changes adding Quality HP to fighter giving it more parity with paladin having the 10% sacred bonus.

True, though if they are in unyielding sentinel and spent points in deific resillance and have deific warding as a feet. Your really only gaining 5% quality.

So fighters can drop deific warding as a feet as they will still be able to get it by spending the AP’s in unyielding.

[Arguile]

Vistani
New Enhancement called Grudge Bearer, Multi selector off of Whirling Blades, grants +25% competence bonus to hit points for 2 AP.

If you play a melee VKF you will now have a 2 ap tax compared to many other melee classes. I understand you do not want the ranged builds to have the bonus hp's, but this is a raw deal for the VKF melee builds. perhaps consider reducing ap costs elsewhere.

Suggestion: 1 ap for vendetta. This will at least mitigate the tax slightly.

Great work! this looks very promising and I'm very excited for this update!

[kitty12345]

Bards
T5 - Swash Buckler - Second Skin, AP cost reduced to 1. Updated to: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 Max Dex Bonus to Armor. Rank 3 grants a +20% competence bonus to hit points.
T4 - On the Mark: AP cost reduced to 1 per rank
T5 - WarChanter - Howl of the North will now also grant a 20% competence bonus to hit points in addition to it's original bonuses.

Monk
new T5 for Henshin Mystic & Ninja Spy - Self Defense - Grants +5 MRR, MRR Cap and 25% competence bonus to Hit Points.

The Swash Buckler - Second Skin is not worth spending 3 AP to get to Rank 3 for the +20% competence bonus to HP.

Currently with EDF and full SWF feats, it offers 25% bonus to HP without spending a single AP. With the new update, the "The Swash Buckler - Second Skin" only gives you 20% bonus to HP and you will need to spend 3 AP at T5. It is a very high investment for 5% less HP.
Alternately, please put the 20% bonus to HP into the "Coup De Grace - Melee Attack". This way, it will lock out the Ranged portion, but it will not require to waste 3 AP.
Or add the 20% bonus to HP to both "The Swash Buckler - Second Skin" and "Coup De Grace - Melee Attack", this way, at least we have a choice. Since it is same bonus type, it would not stack anyway.
Otherwise, would it be possible to add a similar skill like the "T5 for Henshin Mystic & Ninja Spy - Self Defense", but just 1 AP for the +20% competence bonus to HP? Spending 1 AP is better than wasting 3 AP at T5.

Please re-consider one of these alternative solutions.

Thanks.

[Bjond]

[*]Replacement Competence bonuses have been spread around the trees mostly in T5 of melee focused trees. (new T4 in Occult Slayer)

Placing almost 40 AP into one tree is not something that should be mandatory for just one of the 3 dps styles. It reduces the "build-space" from 10K potential melee builds to just a few spread across 20'ish deep trees. Build flex is the ONE and only thing DDO does better than other MMOs. Are you seriously considering taking an axe to that tree?

Many of my melee builds never use a T5 and so loose 25% HP. All my builds are AP-starved; 2 AP shuffled = character mangled, 10~20 AP shuffled = concept destroyed. My melee bard takes T5 SPELLSINGER (T5 & T4 swash is pointless, T5 & (most of) T4 warchanter is a waste and the vorpal ice is buggy, overwrites skill ice duration). EK looses 10% HP. Wolf looses 10% (FOTW HP is primal .. imho, change np:defender to animal or shield). Warpriest/soul looses 5%. Melee warlock looses 25% (I've never played a pure class).

There are MANY other ways to keep a 25% bonus restricted to melee that don't kill current characters or drastically reduce the build space. Why not use one (as suggested in pass-1 thread) instead of hacking up all the trees trying to fixup the loss of EDF HP 1x1 for each and every build?

[Alternative]

Second Wind Auto granted for fighter level 2. Active this ability to regain 50% of your max hit points. 15 second cool down. You can used this once per rest, with an additional charges gained at Fighter levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20. This can be used while Crowd Controlled. At level 8 Second Wind removes negative effects like the Panacea spell.

I'm going to get some hate for this probably, but this is too good, and too OP compared to what other classes get.

It's pretty much 6 better lay on hands: without reaper penalty, granted for FREE, work when CCed, and remove statuses too?? First you nerf lay on hands (destiny pass made it impossible to twist extra charges/recharge for dps builds), then you nerf healing hands, and now you give fighters THIS!? It should be paladin's perk to do lower dps but have better self healing, this is ridiculous.

[leesun]

I'm going to get some hate for this probably, but this is too good, and too OP compared to what other classes get.

It's pretty much 6 better lay on hands: without reaper penalty, granted for FREE, work when CCed, and remove statuses too?? First you nerf lay on hands (destiny pass made it impossible to twist extra charges/recharge for dps builds), then you nerf healing hands, and now you give fighters THIS!? It should be paladin's perk to do lower dps but have better self healing, this is ridiculous.

Though I am thrilled that fighters are getting a heal I agree that it is waaay too strong. What if the the healing was reduced, the ability to use it whilst CCd was removed, the panacea effect was removed, but instead of 1-6 charges it used action boost charges?

[DRAXnekro]

Improved Natural Fighting: Wolf form competence bonus increased from 15% to 20%.

I'm guesing it's about Perfect Natural Fighting. With this change, the 5% primal bonus and the 10% exceptional bonus from lvl 31 feat wolfs will get a total of 35% bonus to hp. That is too much compared to bears or even other melee classes. I get it that bears are geting huge bonuses to CON but with flat bonuses to hp from reapers and the heroic durability revamp, wolf might go way ahead from bears that were supposed to be a Hp pool with fangs and clavs.

This is not the thread but gonna point that out anyway. Perfect Natural fighting and Wild Force seems to be giving better bonuses to wolfs than to bears and in many cases those feats are considered useless to bears.

[Arlathen]

Epic Defensive Fighting: Will be removed from the game. (still)

Still one of the best changes to the game to come along IMHO! Thank you!

Hey this is an update to the hit point pass for Lammania preview 2.....

Caster/Range Melee Hybrids who only get 20% though you can still splash into fighter/paladin/bear and now now occult slayer

Ranger
T5 - Tempest- Dual Perfection grants a 25% competence bonus to hit points in addition to it's original bonuses.

Feel like Deepwood Stalker is missing out here, as its a Melee/Ranged Hybrid tree and doesn't seem to have any bonuses? I checked on Lammania and didn't see anything.

Perhaps add +20% Competence bonus to HP to the T5 Strikes Like Lightning?

[SpartanKiller13]

True, though if they are in unyielding sentinel and spent points in deific resilience and have deific warding as a feet. Your really only gaining 5% quality.

So fighters can drop deific warding as a feet as they will still be able to get it by spending the AP’s in unyielding.

2 free EDP or Toughness, plus 5% HP - at worst. Seems pretty good?

I'm going to get some hate for this probably, but this is too good, and too OP compared to what other classes get.

It's pretty much 6 better lay on hands: without reaper penalty, granted for FREE, work when CCed, and remove statuses too?? First you nerf lay on hands (destiny pass made it impossible to twist extra charges/recharge for dps builds), then you nerf healing hands, and now you give fighters THIS!? It should be paladin's perk to do lower dps but have better self healing, this is ridiculous.

Where did you see that there isn't reaper penalty? Nothing in the OP or on Lama shows that AFAIK?

LoH can be used on other people, is spammable (not 15s CD), and works through/around terrain. Also scales with both stat and healamp, which Second Wind does not.

CC cleanse is pretty great for sure, but Paladin saves mean you pretty much don't get CC'ed from stuff that's cleansable so I'm not sure that's super OP either.

[Torc]

Thanks for the response - I re-logged and noticed that I had the CON bonus , not the HP bonus - as T3 Pally - respected AP to change to Tenacious...

Now at 3398 - so much less of a change at ~42 hp... thanks for posting-

Do shield feats count towards HP Stacking?

Propane

[IMG][/IMG]

Yes the shield mastery line does count just like it did for EDF.

[Torc]

Great changes adding Quality HP to fighter giving it more parity with paladin having the 10% sacred bonus. I like the hp restoration ability - seems like it will be great for R10s if it's not debuffed like healing.

It is a heal and will be effected by reaper, and it's a bit of an odd duck because what it really scales with is your hit points (and amp) as supposed to positive spell power.

On reaper self healing we are looking at that soon in a more global sense, but no changes for U57. We do want "healers" focused builds to be appreciated in reaper but the current system perhaps could be a little more forgiving on self medicating.

-T

[Kortar]

It is a heal and will be effected by reaper, and it's a bit of an odd duck because what it really scales with is your hit points (and amp) as supposed to positive spell power.

On reaper self healing we are looking at that soon in a more global sense, but no changes for U57. We do want "healers" focused builds to be appreciated in reaper but the current system perhaps could be a little more forgiving on self medicating.

-T

Create a PDK on lam and it was not granted second wind feat (auto leveled using accept training)

UPDATE: It is not granted if you follow the PDK path.

[Wizard1406]

On reaper self healing we are looking at that soon in a more global sense, but no changes for U57. We do want "healers" focused builds to be appreciated in reaper but the current system perhaps could be a little more forgiving on self medicating.

-T

That would be awesome Torc.

What about lower scaling at lower skulls.... healing penalty starts at 60% (!) which is really steep for R1.

Maybe also no healing penalty out of combat? (at least in low/mid reaper) I think the game can discern already when you are not in battle, as the combat music stops.

[R1ncewind]

It is a heal and will be effected by reaper, and it's a bit of an odd duck because what it really scales with is your hit points (and amp) as supposed to positive spell power.

On reaper self healing we are looking at that soon in a more global sense, but no changes for U57. We do want "healers" focused builds to be appreciated in reaper but the current system perhaps could be a little more forgiving on self medicating.

-T

On this, I wonder how would you ( and other players) would feel about turning the selfhealing penalty into a debuff that all monsters have in reaper in either an aura or on hit effect (probably aura) that disappear after a few seconds after finishing a fight, giving enough time to selfheal between battles.

[Daedricz]

Does T5 Kensei - Weapon Master still require the Weapon Group Specializations to unlock? Also any chance we could get some AP reduction in Kensei with things like Extra Action Boost and Strikethrough somewhere in the tree? Maybe make Weapon Master a multiselector similar to Wade Through in Fury, while still keeping the original bonuses?

[Caarb]

On reaper self healing we are looking at that soon in a more global sense, but no changes for U57. We do want "healers" focused builds to be appreciated in reaper but the current system perhaps could be a little more forgiving on self medicating.

-T

This is good news. I have long advocated removing the self heal portion entirely and reduce group healing more. Dedicated healers would still be appreciated but not penalised so badly for healing themselves. I will also echo comments that out of combat healing should be far easier.

[dkyle]

On this, I wonder how would you ( and other players) would feel about turning the selfhealing penalty into a debuff that all monsters have in reaper in either an aura or on hit effect (probably aura) that disappear after a few seconds after finishing a fight, giving enough time to selfheal between battles.

There are already mechanics for recognizing being "in" or "out" of combat, such as the new Falconry changes, so that could be used too.

[Vellrad]

Are you going to change toughness feat?