U57 Preview 2: Imbue Overhaul

**Lynnabel** · 10-25-2022, 01:15 PM

Changes from first preview are in this green!

With Update 57 we are embarking on a series of global overhauls that aim to streamline and shake up the game and bring new cohesion across multiple builds. The Imbue system is one such overhaul and aims to drastically change how players approach certain builds, as well as open up a large variety of fun, flavorful, and powerful new ones. But enough talk - let's see the details!

An Imbue is a new type of toggle in DDO that adds extra damage to your attacks. This extra damage can be specific to certain weapon types, certain combat styles, or even be focused on melee or ranged. Imbues can also scale with things, such as Melee or Ranged Power. You can only have one Imbue active at a time, which means turning on a new Imbue while one is already on will turn the old one off.

Imbues scale their damage with bonus Imbue Dice. If an Imbue added, for example, 1d6 Fire damage, gaining 1 bonus Imbue dice will change that to 2d6 Fire damage. 2 bonus dice means 3d6, etc. Bonus Imbue Dice are global and universal - they do not care about which Imbue is active, and will scale each imbue based on the base Imbue's stats. This means that with the earlier example, if the Imbue in question actually did 1d12 Poison damage scaling with Melee Power, having 2 bonus dice means you'll do 3d12 damage. You can check your bonus Imbue Dice on the character sheet's Details+ Tab.

If this sounds familiar, you're right! This is exactly how our current scaling toggles work - such as Eldritch Knight or Arcane Archer! The big difference here is that there are no more "Arcane Archer Dice" or "Eldritch Knight Dice" - they all now scale off of Imbue Dice together. One of the benefits of these dice being shared is that there is relatively little opportunity cost to switching to a different element from a different tree, should you so desire. You can also aim for very specific imbues in some trees and then boost them up elsewhere. It also means that gaining a bonus dice is something that a large variety of builds will want, making trees and feats that add bonus dice highly desirable.

There are a lot of Imbues available - most of which have been adapted from existing procs scattered throughout our enhancement trees. Most of them are also designed to be available very early on in your leveling process. There are also a lot of bonus Imbue Dice available, scattered throughout areas that used to add specific dice types, or just that we thought would make sense. The sheer amount of changes and additions makes creating concise release notes relatively tough, so we've split them into sections based on the source.

Note: Some of the abilities listed here already do the damage type we're talking about - with these pass, they will be changed to imbues and turned into toggles. Furthermore, some of the places we're adding bonus dice already involved increasing the dice of a proc that's been mentioned - basically, in your head, try to remember that all procs are now imbues, and all things that boosted procs are now bonus imbue dice, and it will all make sense.

Alchemist:

(Vile Chemist Core 2) 1d8 Poison Damage, poison spell power
(Vile Chemist Core 2) +1 Dice per 3 Alchemist Levels - max 6 dice
(Vile Chemist Core 4) +1 Dice (replaces dice change)
(Vile Chemist Core 5) +1 Dice (replaces dice change)
(Vile Chemist Core 6) +2 Dice (replaces dice change)

Artificer:

(Battle Engineer Tier 3) 1d6 Electric damage, electric spellpower (fills in missing t3)
(Battle Engineer - Agility Engine t4) +1/2/3 Dice with a runearm equipped
(Battle Engineer - Unlock Potential t5) +1 Dice with a runearm equipped
The spell Elemental Weapons now grants +1 alchemical bonus to Imbue Dice (note this is still exclusive with other weapon enchantment spells)
The spell Greater Elemental Weapons now grants +2 alchemical bonus to Imbue Dice (note this is still exclusive with other weapon enchantment spells)

Barbarian:

(Frenzied Berserker Core 2) 1d8 Bane Damage - Melee Power scaling only
(Frenzied Core 4) +3 dice while Death Frenzy is active

Bard:

(Warchanter Tier 3) 1d6 Cold Damage on hit, cold spellpower
(Swashbuckler Tier 3) 1d6 Sonic Damage on hit, scaling wit Sonic Spellpower (note: this was the sonic on-crit thing)
(Warchanter) Each core beyond the first grants +1 Dice
(Swashbuckler Tier 4) Music Box now grants +1 imbue dice

Cleric:

(Dark Apostate Tier 1) 1d6 Evil damage, evil spellpower
(Warpriest Tier 4) 1d6 Fire damage, fire spellpower - replaces t4 active attack
(Warpriest) Core 2, 4, 5 grant +1 Dice
(Warpriest T5) Wrathful Weapons now grants +3 dice instead of its separate proc, and turns your Fire imbue to Light for the duration
(Dark Apostate) Tiers 2, 3, 4 grant +1 Dice
(Dark Apostate) Tier 5 grants +2 Dice
(Dark Apostate) Core 3, 5, 6 grant +1 Dice

Druid:

(Automatically granted when you choose Fire or Water Elemental Form) 1d6 Fire or Cold, elemental form locked, spellpower scaling
Elemental Forms now grant a flat +3 Dice

Favored Soul:

(Warsoul Tier 4) 1d6 Fire damage, fire spellpower - replaces t4 active attack
(Warsoul) Cores 2, 4, 5 grant +1 Dice
(Warsoul T5) Wrathful Weapons now grants +3 dice instead of its separate proc, and turns your Fire imbue to Light for the duration

Fighter:

n/a

Monk:

(Ninja Spy Tier 3) 1d6 Poison Damage, melee or ranged power, also continues to do its regular Ninja Poison on-crit stuff
(Henshin Mystic Tier 3) 1d6 Fire, plus an additional 1d6 Force on crit, melee or ranged power
(Henshin Mystic) Each core grants +1 Dice

Paladin:

(Kotc Core 1) 1d6 Light Damage on hit, scaling with Melee or Ranged Power
(Sacred Fist Core 1) 1d6 Fire or Light damage, melee power
(Sacred Fist) Each core beyond the first grants +1 Dice
(Sacred Fist) Tier 3, 4 grant +1 Dice each
(Knight of the Chalice) Each core beyond the first grants +1 Dice

Ranger:

(Ranger - Tempest) 1d8 Electric, melee or ranged power
(Ranger - Arcane Archer) 1d8 Fire/Cold/Acid/Electric, appropriate Spell Power
(Ranger - Arcane Archer) 1d8 Force, force spellpower
(Arcane Archer) Tiers 2, 3, 4, and 5 grant +2 Dice each
Note: All other primary Arcane Archer imbues are also now imbues in this system.

Rogue:

(Assassin Tier 1) 1d8 Poison, melee or ranged power (note this swapped places with Toxin Affinity which is now tier 2)
(Assassin - Toxin Affinity) moves to t2 (swaps with imbue), +1/2/3 dice

Sorcerer:

(Eldritch Knight Core 2) 1d8 Fire/Cold/Acid/Electric, appropriate Spell Power (they get all 4 elements)
(EK Core 2) +1 Dice per 3 Sorcerer levels, max 6
(EK Core 4) +1 Dice (replaces dice step change)
(EK Core 5) +1 Dice (replaces dice step change)
(EK Core 6) +2 Dice (replaces dice step change) + the proc for +4 temporary dice

Wizard:

(Eldritch Knight Core 2) 1d8 Fire/Cold/Acid/Electric, appropriate Spell Power (they get all 4 elements)
(EK Core 2) +1 Dice per 3 Wizard levels, max 6
(EK Core 4) +1 Dice (replaces dice step change)
(EK Core 5) +1 Dice (replaces dice step change)
(EK Core 6) +2 Dice (replaces dice step change) + the proc for +4 temporary dice

Warlock:

(Enlightened Spirit Tier 4) 1d6 Light, Light spell power (ALSO APPLIES TO ELDRITCH BLASTS, no other toggle does this)
(Enlightened Spirit Core 5) +3 bonus dice while in Celestial Spirit form

Racial:

(Drow - Racial Tree) 1d8 Poison, melee or ranged power (same as Assassin)
(Drow - Racial Tree) +1 dice in tier 3, 4 (new enhancements, fills in missing space
(Shadar-kai Racial Tree) 1d12 Cold on sneak attacks, melee or ranged power
(Half-Elf - Warlock Dilettante feat) 1d4 Fire damage, fire spellpower, also works on spells!
(Tiefling - Racial Tree) 1d4 Fire Damage on hit, scaling with Fire Spell Power vs enemies below 75%, upgrades to 1d6 below 50% and again to 1d8 below 25%
(Tiefling Scoundrel - Racial Tree) 1d4 Sonic Damage on hit, scaling with Sonic Spell Power vs enemies below 75%, upgrades to 1d6 below 50% and again to 1d8 below 25%

Universal:

(Inquisitive) 1d8 Law Damage on hit vs chaotic, 1d4 against non-chaotic, Melee or Ranged Power. Tier 5 ugprades can make this 1d8 vs everyone. This scales with 200% ranged power. Known issue: The tooltip for the t5s says 1d6!
(Inquisitive) Core 4, 5, 6 grant +1 dice each
(Inquisitive) Tier 2, 4 grant +1 dice each
(Inquisitive) Tier 5 multiselector grants +1 dice each except for 1 grants +2

Feats:

(Embodiment of Law - Destiny Feat) is now: +3 PRR and MRR. if you are lawful, you also gain +2 imbue dice
(Embodiment of Chaos - Destiny Feat) is now: +2% doublestrike and doubleshot. If you are chaotic, you also gain +2 imbue dice
(Enhanced Elemental Dice - Destiny Feat) +1 Dice
(Scion of the Feywild - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Earth - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Fire - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Water - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Air - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of Arborea) +1 dice
(Offhand Versatility) - Orb/Runearm gains +1 Imbue dice

Destinies:

Shiradi Champion mantle gains 1d77 per 7 bonus dice - this is not an imbue toggle BUT gains benefits from your imbue dice!
Draconic Tier 3 now grants +1/2/3 Dice
Crusade! buff in Divine Crusader now grants +1 dice
Ghost Touch in LD is now "Esoteric Touch" and grants both Ghost Touch and +1 Imbue Dice
Shared Mantle in PA now also grants +3 Imbue Dice while within the PA Mantle

Items:

Filigree Set Bonuses that used to give a scaling imbue on-hit now give +1 Dice
Augments from Hunt or Be Hunted Raid now give +1 Enhancement bonus to bonus Dice
Certain Set Bonuses get +1 Dice in heroics, 2 in epics, 3 in legendary (artifact typed):
- Profane Experiment
- Echoes of the Waking Ancestors
- Crypt Raider

Misc Changes:
As a part of this, we're also doing the following small set of changes to facilitate this system's cohesiveness:

Pain Touch 1 and 2 from Ravager lose their small on-hit proc and gain +5 Melee Power each instead (for a total +10)
Death Frenzy now grants +6 str since regular Frenzy is losing its str bonus
Divine Crusader's Law of the Divine still deals 1d6 Law damage on hit per epic/legendary level (unchanged) but the vuln + armor piercing moved over a space into Bring Down Wrath so that enhancement is more usable for people not using shields, and also you can get the debuffs without needing the feat spot. Note that the Embodiment of Chaos upgrade in Fury is unchanged by this pass.
Rather than the upgrade for Tempest's Lightning Stance increasing base damage, the base toggle now is the imbue and the upgrade grants the full +30% absorb
Iced Edges is now just 1 rank and is no longer a prereq of the rest of the ice line, so you can skip the imbue if you want the other stuff.

Bugs Fixed from Preview 1:

barb frenzy now scales correctly
EK stuff now scales correctly with dice and spellpower
artificer imbue now correctly does electric damage
elemental weapon spells now correctly apply their effects
lighting the candle fixed - now deals 1d6 fire all the time, with an additional 1d6 force on crit
dark apostate proc now scales correctly
fixed pal imbue icon on tree
pal imbue now reports with the combat log correctly
Warpriest fire imbue now correctly deals damage
Agility Engine and Unlock Potential have better icons, descriptions, and actually boost their imbue dice now
Wiz, sorc, and alchemist dice from leveling now automatically update without needing you to log in and out again
tiefling cores no longer auto apply imbue
law/chaos feats no longer auto apply imbue
warpriest toggle stays on reliably

So! A pretty huge list of changes, lots to digest. Your thoughts, questions, suggestions are always welcome!

**Stravix** · 10-25-2022, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

*snip*
(Shadar-kai Racial Tree) 1d12 Cold on sneak attacks, melee or ranged power

This still only scales with 1x MP/RP, right? Seems like a powerhouse if scales at anything else.

**Anurakh** · 10-25-2022, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

Universal:

(Inquisitive) 1d8 Law Damage on hit vs chaotic, 1d4 against non-chaotic, Melee or Ranged Power. Tier 5 ugprades can make this 1d8 vs everyone. This scales with 200% ranged power. Known issue: The tooltip for the t5s says 1d6!
(Inquisitive) Core 4, 5, 6 grant +1 dice each
(Inquisitive) Tier 2, 4 grant +1 dice each
(Inquisitive) Tier 5 multiselector grants +1 dice each except for 1 grants +2

jaded unchanged with 1d8 for everyone, yay! Thanks for solving the problem I had with Tier 5 and the new imbue system! Relieved that there won't be another nerf for the inquisitive.

I hope to test it in this preview!

**Anurakh** · 10-25-2022, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

Feats:
[LIST][*](Embodiment of Law - Destiny Feat) is now: +3 PRR and MRR. if you are lawful, you also gain +2 imbue dice[*](Embodiment of Chaos - Destiny Feat) is now: +2% doublestrike and doubleshot. If you are chaotic, you also gain +2 imbue dice

I don't like this so much. If you don't have that alignment, these feats are now useless. Will we get a free feat change, or a free alignment change?

**Talnar00** · 10-25-2022, 01:35 PM

I'd like to suggest a possible change/implementation for the Half-elf's warlock dilettante imbue.
The 2 second cooldown it has makes it rather lackluster, however straight up removing that cooldown would make it very powerful for just a racial feat at the very start.
I'd suggest changing the Half-elf's Improved Warlock Dilettante enhancements to interact with it's imbue.

Example of possibility:
Improved Dilettante Warlock (Tier 1): Reduces Dilettante Imbue cooldown by 0.5 sec (2 Racial AP investment to get, 1 progression, 1 for ability)
Improved Dilettante Warlock (Tier 2): Further reduces Dilettante Imbue cooldown by 0.5 sec (6 Racial AP investment to get)
Improved Dilettante Warlock (Tier 4): Further reduces Dilettante Imbue cooldown by 0.5 sec (16 Racial AP investment to get)

Keeps the imbue at only d4 and no extra dice, but allows it to apply more frequently.

As it stands the 2 second cooldown kind of kills it as an appealing option, however no cooldown at all even with 16 AP investment might be too powerful, since then it would apply to all enemies hit by aoe spells. Decreasing the cooldown with Racial AP investment could make Half-elfs an appealing racial option for fire based casters instead of just Dragonborn or Tieflings.

**Nugaot** · 10-25-2022, 01:45 PM

A few small suggestions:

Fighter:

n/a

Consider putting imbue dice in t2 Kensai Ascetic Training as a multi selector. Fighter itself doesn't get an imbue, but they also don't get the ability to generate ki on their own, either. Kensai is a very multiclass friendly tree, why not open it up to imbue builds a little, too?

(Scion of the Feywild - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Earth - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Fire - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Water - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of the Plane of Air - Legendary Feat) +3 Dice
(Scion of Arborea) +1 dice

Can Scion of the Shadowfell also get some bonus dice added to it? Would make Dark Apostate very happy.

**Black_Ninja** · 10-25-2022, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

Changes from first preview are in this green!
Ranger:

(Ranger - Tempest) 1d8 Electric, melee or ranged power
(Ranger - Arcane Archer) 1d8 Fire/Cold/Acid/Electric, appropriate Spell Power
(Ranger - Arcane Archer) 1d8 Force, force spellpower
(Arcane Archer) Tiers 2, 3, 4, and 5 grant +2 Dice each
Note: All other primary Arcane Archer imbues are also now imbues in this system.

3 questions, as someone who has always loved AA from pnp to DDO. I am looking forward to future viability of this tree.
1- Is there any change in the cost of the force arrows imbue? 6 points right now is... steep.
2- Will the non-damaging imbues scale or benefit at all from imbue dice?
3- For the non damaging imbues, is there any chance they can scale with wis/int/cha or something so that more builds have that as an option? Would really love to not need wisdom. That drastically reduces what I can run those with.

Especially as, from the days of PNP, elves were the primary Arcane Archers, and they've always been more inclined towards int than wis.

Excited for this uodate! Lots of new and interesting options.

**Axcarth** · 10-25-2022, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

Changes from first preview are in this green!
...

Fighter:

n/a

...

Why still nothing for Fighters? I thought imbue feats line or something was on the table.

Aside from the hard time fighters go through at end game due to the lack of defenses, now they are being excluded from these sweet changes. There's almost no reason to play fighter anymore.

**Lynnabel** · 10-25-2022, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Axcarth

Why still nothing for Fighters? I thought imbue feats line or something was on the table.

Aside from the hard time fighters go through at end game due to the lack of defenses, now they are being excluded from these sweet changes. There's almost no reason to play fighter anymore.

Fighter stuff is actually in the other thread, check it out!

**Stravix** · 10-25-2022, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Axcarth

Why still nothing for Fighters? I thought imbue feats line or something was on the table.

Aside from the hard time fighters go through at end game due to the lack of defenses, now they are being excluded from these sweet changes. There's almost no reason to play fighter anymore.

Check the HP thread, Fighter got some nice goodies over there.

**elvesunited** · 10-25-2022, 02:07 PM

Testing with my enlightened spirit warlock ( level 30 )

Should be getting 4d6 imbue light damage on each melee strike and eldritch aura strike.

The imbue damage is not applying at all.

**Axcarth** · 10-25-2022, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

Fighter stuff is actually in the other thread, check it out!

Originally Posted by Stravix

Check the HP thread, Fighter got some nice goodies over there.

Yeah, I did. Nice goodies there. Thanks!

**drewollice** · 10-25-2022, 02:22 PM

Making toxin affinity for rogue assassin tree locked behind [en]venomed blades makes the user invest in [en]venomed blades to get the imbue dice; but mutually exclusive imbue toggles means they likely will not even use the required [en]venomed blades toggle since an EK/AA/Inquis/shadarkai will use their respective better toggles instead. Could we remove the dependency to avoid wasting those 3 action points?

also could you update venomed to envenomed?

**Wdh** · 10-25-2022, 02:25 PM

My total bane damage as a barbarian still seems significantly less than what it was pre-update. I'm swinging at the airship training dummy on live hitting for three numbers of bane damage one hits for about 30-70, another for about 20-55 another fluctuates more wildly at 100-200, on the Lammania build I get one bane damage number that hits for 40-70 points, rarely higher. Even just adding up the low end of the bane damages I get on live its about double what I get on Lammania for my high end. Maybe the last core in the tree can grant another +2-3 imbue die or scale higher with melee power or both because you'd just about need to double what damage is dealt now to fix this. I don't have the points to spare to throw around in those universal trees to get more die and toying with my feats with my current build would be annoying, and taking damage from plain barbarians just seems counter intuitive when they are not the best dps in ddo compared to certain caster classes. Especially when that bane damage actually matters a lot in heroics, atleast in my opinion.

**JBadhair** · 10-25-2022, 02:26 PM

Good Afternoon all. Embodiment of law and Harbinger of Chaos both seem to be partially broken the are giving the Imbue dice but not the PRR/MRR on Law or the Double Strike/Shot on Chaos.

**Talnar00** · 10-25-2022, 02:41 PM

On the filigree set imbue dice. The bonuses used to be 4d6+1d6 per epic/legendary level (total 16d6, admittedly non-scaling), but now are only 1 imbue die. Maybe make the set bonuses be +1 imbue die + 1 die per 5 epic/legendary levels. Keeps the per level component, and doesn't feel as bad losing the 16d6.

Also perhaps change the sets from being worth all the same. Reverb's +imbue die is only two pieces, whereas Wreath of Flame, The Beast Mantle, and Frozen Wanderer is four pieces for +1 die, and Electrocution, The Long Shadow, and Snake Bite is three pieces for +1 die. So maybe make Reverb's only one die, and have one's like Wreath's give more per every few levels since more filigree investment.

Possible Example:
Reverb 2 piece: +1 imbue die
Snake Bite 3 piece: +1 imbue die + 1 additional die per 10 epic/legendary levels (total at +2 die currently)
Wreath of Flame 4 piece: +1 imbue die + 1 additional die per 5 epic/legendary levels (total at +3 die currently)

**Lynnabel** · 10-25-2022, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by JBadhair

Good Afternoon all. Embodiment of law and Harbinger of Chaos both seem to be partially broken the are giving the Imbue dice but not the PRR/MRR on Law or the Double Strike/Shot on Chaos.

We have pushed a configuration change to the server that will likely resolve this with a relog.

**Sqrlmonger** · 10-25-2022, 02:54 PM

Lynn your updated calculations on the efficacy of the 200% scaling change to inquisitor is apparently not calculated correctly.

You are assuming 200% ranged power is 33% more damage than 150% but this is apparently only true at (literally) infinite ranged power values. If the values presented in the other thread are accurate a 100 range power would be more than 11% less damage than you calculated.

Additionally, I think even if you do not wish to add dice back to cores 4-6 they badly need additional benefits to compensate for the loss of their main attractor (more so 5/6 than 4).

Suggestions like returning bolts, removal of double shot limitation on inquisitors (since doubleshot doesn't boost proc rate anymore), and many others.

I know you have to ration your time replying to people, but a lot of people care a lot about inquisitor and would truly appreciate a response even if it is simply to explain why you don't feel these things are justified. Doing so might allow us to understand your boundaries and give us the chance to offer feedback you can actually work with.

From talking with folks I can tell you that inquisitive players feel ignored on our concerns, you say you want feedback but that has to include engaging with those of us who have a different view or its just farming for agreement.

Thanks.

**JBadhair** · 10-25-2022, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

We have pushed a configuration change to the server that will likely resolve this with a relog.

Very cool and thank you! (Just checked both look good)

**rabidfox** · 10-25-2022, 03:07 PM

As long as your redoing stuff in the Elf Arcane Archer tree for the imbues, could all the cores be redone to match the progression of every other tree in the game; it's so silly that one has to respec their character in epic levels if they want the later cores on an Elf AA build. The entire level progression of the Elf AA cores that follows some old school design concept feels so out of place with the existence of universal trees.

Thread: U57 Preview 2: Imbue Overhaul

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U57 Preview 2: Imbue Overhaul

Toxin Affinity Dependency wastes 3 AP

Better, still not perfect.

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