U57 Preview 1: Hit Point Pass

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

Warlock
(No Updates to enhancement trees. Warlock enlightened spirit already has a comp bonus in their tree).

Could you move it to T5 like other trees to allow multiclassing?

[JollySwagMan]

Add Tomes to the store/Golden Dice rolls
+5% HP level 1-20 (can be upgraded)
+10% HP level 20-30 (includes Heroic, can be upgraded)
+15% HP level 32+ (includes Heroic + Epic)

Add Tomes to Mysterious Remnants Vendor/Silver Dice Rolls:
+2.5% HP 1-20
+5% HP 20-30
+7.5% HP 32+

[jskinner937]

Tome of healing amp would be easier and better imo. Tome of 10% HAMP and Tome of 20% HAMP, both automatically scale.

[Stravix]

Add Tomes to the store/Golden Dice rolls
+5% HP level 1-20 (can be upgraded)
+10% HP level 20-30 (includes Heroic, can be upgraded)
+15% HP level 32+ (includes Heroic + Epic)

Add Tomes to Mysterious Remnants Vendor/Silver Dice Rolls:
+2.5% HP 1-20
+5% HP 20-30
+7.5% HP 32+

[LokiFrost20882]

Don't mind me. I'm just here for the drama, caustic reactions and butthurt.

[count_spicoli]

EDF wasnt the best but one thing i liked about it was that it locked out ranged types who arent right in the mosh pit. Now with these new changes your gonna allow casters who are already making a mockery of end game play to be even meatier with shield mastery feats. Really curious to see what you guys are thinking here? Just have mad love casters and severe disdain for melee?

All these competence bonuses make the tanky trees of fighter and pally and their stances just silly now. So essentially a kensai will have as much hp as a stalward defender who couldnt hurt a fly? I would leave the fighter pally stances as competence but add a tier 5 or core ablity that gives a unique bonus to hps or something like that. Leaving them with just competence bonus in their tree while every dps tree is now getting that also has a bad feel.

Wouldnt nerf US %. That tree really sucks and the only thing good about it really is the hp bonus and the kick butt epic moment. Nerfing this will pretty much make this tree obsolete for anyone.

[leesun]

DDO

Makes monk class
Advertises it as having a unique unarmed fighting animation as a selling feature
Makes non-monk unarmed iconic
Gives unique unarmed fighting animation to any class who takes revamped GMoF destiny
Gives unique fighting unarmed animation to paladins and, by extention, every other class that are able to multi-class with paladin
Gyp monk from HP in HP pass

Unarmed monk is to DDO what the Ottomon Empire was to Europe. Something once grand that is slowly dying.

[SocratesBastardSon]

Unarmed monk is to DDO what the Ottomon Empire was to Europe. Something once grand that is slowly dying.

Wow, I was NOT expecting an Ottoman Empire reference here.

[Shedrakzo]

One more thing that I've realized about this change: DPS bears that are using THF weapons are now going to take a hit to their HP without the existence of EDF. Previously, EDF was the alternative source of competence HP for DPS bears because the actual Competence bonus in Nature's Protector is tied to using a shield. Is there any chance this could be adjusted?

[Kielbasa]

One more thing that I've realized about this change: DPS bears that are using THF weapons are now going to take a hit to their HP without the existence of EDF. Previously, EDF was the alternative source of competence HP for DPS bears because the actual Competence bonus in Nature's Protector is tied to using a shield. Is there any chance this could be adjusted?

Both bear and wolf druids get shafted with the proposed update. Both should have a t5 with a competence bonus to hp. Update ursa's heart to give additional hp when using a shield and + % armor class bonus I think they are the only tanky enhancement tree missing it somewhere in the tree. Perfect natural fighting remove the competence hp bonus add 10% combat style bonus to attack speed that was removed from winter wolf bringing them back to 30% equal to single weapon fighting. This should bring them back into the conversation again bears are significantly better and have been for a while now.

[nobodynobody1426]

Just move HP entirely, everyone gets 10 hits total, every attack deals 1 point of damage.

Boom problem solved, now beer me.

[Discpsycho]

One more thing that I've realized about this change: DPS bears that are using THF weapons are now going to take a hit to their HP without the existence of EDF. Previously, EDF was the alternative source of competence HP for DPS bears because the actual Competence bonus in Nature's Protector is tied to using a shield. Is there any chance this could be adjusted?

Don't most DPS bears and wolves (eg, 11/6/3 Silvanus bear, or 11/8/1 Barb wolf) take T5 barbarian? Also wolves get +15% from Perfect Natural Fighting, so this is only a problem for mostly pure THF bears

[elvesunited]

Don't most DPS bears and wolves (eg, 11/6/3 Silvanus bear, or 11/8/1 Barb wolf) take T5 barbarian? Also wolves get +15% from Perfect Natural Fighting, so this is only a problem for mostly pure THF bears

THF nature protector druid is still a thing. But the solution is easy. The shield requirement for the Ursa Protector has always been awkward. Remove the requirement.

As for wolves the +5% primal at either core 4 or core 5 ( it isn't clear as it says core 4 but uses the core 5 name ) seems like an attempt to make up for the issue that if comp hp is gained through perfect natural fighting then the wolf won't get it until level 22. For me its more of an annoyance as I tend to burn through lower levels at low reaper anyway.

[Halciet]

It is bad enough that my minimum HP build already cannot have epic destinies anymore. Going to be very sad if I cannot have 32 HP at 32 anymore.

[GeneralDiomedes]

No contradiction. It really did take ten years playing fairly consistently. The thing is, reaching level cap was never a goal, and so my playstyle is very different from those people who aim straight for the end game. Once again, spreadsheet players find it difficult to understand other ways of playing.

Taking 10 years to reach level 20 has nothing to do with spreadsheet vs. non-spreadsheet players.

[Bjond]

Removing EDF is a laudable goal, but I see a few problems with the approach.

• Heroic levels don't need more HP. A newbie can easily solo L1-20 on Heroic Elites without guild buffs. This is exactly what I did when I was brand new and I thought HE was "just about right" for solo'ing that kind of character.
• EDF is exceptionally broad. EVERY build can choose to turn it on if OK with the restrictions.
• Per-Class and Per-Tree boosts are very narrow. You will kill A TON of "edge case" builds (and edgy builds are where the fun is in DDO).

IMHO, keep things simple. T5 trees are NOT simple. Many of my builds never use them or use things you're not updating (increasing tree cost), for instance. Melee feats are good. Every melee build needs those. Leave the trees unchanged from U56.

Instead, add a couple new competence bonuses based on equiped MH & OH weapon types; eg. MH melee = +10% and MH melee with OH shield = +20%; ie. maximum is 20% competence for Melee+Shield. That incidentally gives casters a 10~20% boost, which means you can skip the base HP adjustments for those classes and still give them a lift similar to your base changes. End result should be almost identical to current for everyone but melee, which would get more due to feat bonuses.

This style of change also maintains a bit of the versatility that was present with EDF; chars can swap in a shield for more HP similarly to how they could turn EDF on. It's open to casters, too -- at the cost of giving up on some of the nice caster bonuses present on orbs. Could even have orbs do HP = -5~10% to offset MH bonus if you feel orb casters are too chubby as is.

And, best of all, it works with ZERO build changes on the part of players. All chars have something in their hands and it's always a damage-specific option. So, just about everyone will get exactly what they deserve -- casters winning a little on hands and melee winning more on both hands and feats.

(btw, those %boost numbers were just ripped from the air .. they'd need some thought behind them to reach a balance .. and if you want to be ultra-fair, this route permits you to leave EDF in for an actual use comparison on live and a final tweak in U58)

[Septimus-Boldrei]

And, best of all, it works with ZERO build changes on the part of players. All chars have something in their hands and it's always a damage-specific option. So, just about everyone will get exactly what they deserve -- casters winning a little on hands and melee winning more on both hands and feats.

It would be hilarious to see people on low HP dying because they tried to use a heal scroll and lost 10% when they put their weapon away
If it is only max HP affected not quite as dangerous, although loosing 20% hp and having to heal it back every time you equiped a ranged weapon to hit a lever with could grow old fast.

[elvesunited]

Instead, add a couple new competence bonuses based on equiped MH & OH weapon types; eg. MH melee = +10% and MH melee with OH shield = +20%; ie. maximum is 20% competence for Melee+Shield. That incidentally gives casters a 10~20% boost, which means you can skip the base HP adjustments for those classes and still give them a lift similar to your base changes. End result should be almost identical to current for everyone but melee, which would get more due to feat bonuses.

My favored soul caster who carries a melee sceptre and a large shield would love this even though he only swings at breakables.
A two handed weapon barbarian or two weapon ranger tempest would hate this as it knocks them down to 10%. ( was getting 25% under EDF )

[Lotoc]

People seem very fixated on wizard not getting the hp adjustment when wizard is such a weak caster atm its most effectively played as a melee, EK is without a doubt Wizard's strongest tree.
It's also pretty baffling overall that Wizard is one of the two weakest nukers in general, the only one arguably as weak is arti.
Then there's all these suggestions that amount to "EKs shouldn't get health because wizard has (weak) caster trees", every class in this game can be built as a melee and a lot of the feedback around better supporting those melee builds with a bump in durability is getting very crabs in a pot.

[elvesunited]

People seem very fixated on wizard not getting the hp adjustment when wizard is such a weak caster atm its most effectively played as a melee, EK is without a doubt Wizard's strongest tree.
It's also pretty baffling overall that Wizard is one of the two weakest nukers in general, the only one arguably as weak is arti.
Then there's all these suggestions that amount to "EKs shouldn't get health because wizard has (weak) caster trees", every class in this game can be built as a melee and a lot of the feedback around better supporting those melee builds with a bump in durability is getting very crabs in a pot.

I'm fixated on why people think Eldritch Knight is not getting the hp adjustment when it clearly is. ( In addition to getting a hit die increase from 4 to 6 )

Sorc/Wiz
Improved Knight's Transformation Updated: While Knight's transformation is active you gain a +1 comp bonus to your weapons crit multipler. When your Eldritch Strike hits you gain the additional bonuses to your Knight's Strike of +3 to Hit, Damage and 3% double strike. Passive Bonus: You gain 15% competence bonus to Max Hit Points (regardless if the toggle is on or not)

As for why its a weak nuker. Well that's because we are way, way, way overdue for an archmage pass. We had a moment when Shiradi first came out and the Shiradi caster became viable again. But that was hard nerfed into oblivion. So now we're back to waiting for the pass.