Should there be a code of conduct for streamers directly supported by SSG?

[KraftLorance]

For the budding Timologists out there, please review this from last month:

https://www.twitch.tv/strimtom/clip/...RTJtEMdkJdVGO8

Yes, good job sending me to a clip of the very video I linked. The one, again, from August 25th. Which, upon further review at your request, still seems to be after the August 23rd announcement that sonic blast was being nerfed.

I'm going to go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt. If you lack Twitch literacy (which, hey, fair enough, I've had an account since like 2012 and I didn't become Twitch literate with it until 2018) I would be happy to walk you through the basic steps to verify the dates. But again, I linked to the full video you tried using as proof, a video that came out 2 days after the thread where SSG announced they were nerfing sonic blast - meaning this entire controversy is based on a lie that you've not only uncritically accepted, but are actively choosing to propagate.

[dogsoldier]

And this is the clip that actually started that lively discussion from last night:

https://m.twitch.tv/strimtom/clip/Sh...mQtG9fwTZhh8VL

It is an odd turn of phrase, because the game was actually down due to an item recovery effort.

[dogsoldier]

Yes, good job sending me to a clip of the very video I linked. The one, again, from August 25th. Which, upon further review at your request, still seems to be after the August 23rd announcement that sonic blast was being nerfed.

I'm going to go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt. If you lack Twitch literacy (which, hey, fair enough, I've had an account since like 2012 and I didn't become Twitch literate with it until 2018) I would be happy to walk you through the basic steps to verify the dates. But again, I linked to the full video you tried using as proof, a video that came out 2 days after the thread where SSG announced they were nerfing sonic blast - meaning this entire controversy is based on a lie that you've not only uncritically accepted, but are actively choosing to propagate.

It was clipped after the fact, from the original stream, seems logical that that clipping activity would have come after that stream was live. Do you have the date on the original stream?

[dogsoldier]

It was clipped after the fact, from the original stream, seems logical that that clipping activity would have come after that stream was live. Do you have the date on the original stream?

I was expecting a snappier response; I am talking responding to a Timologist after all.

[KraftLorance]

It was clipped after the fact, from the original stream, seems logical that that clipping activity would have come after that stream was live. Do you have the date on the original stream?

Yes. The stream was, as stated, on Thursday August 25th, 2022. I did say I'd more than happy to walk you through how to verify that, and since I've given you the dates now for the third time, here are the steps to verify my journalism:

When watching the clip you linked as evidence, there will be a greyish button that says "watch full video". This will take you to the exact video that was being clipped, at the clipped timecode. From there, you need to take note of the videos name. Then you click on the streamer's name to go to their homepage. Scroll down until you see the various tabs "Home" "About" "Schedule" "Video" ect...

Click "schedule", then scroll back until you see the video with the title you took note of earlier. This will let you confirm that the comment in question comes from a stream on Thursday, August 25th. (On mobile you just scroll up, on computer you'll use the calendar system's pervious week button)

I was expecting a snappier response; I am talking responding to a Timologist after all.

I said I'm NOT a Timologist tho

[dogsoldier]

So watching through the stream. I am not a twitch person myself, clearly. He acts all serious about it in the moment to set a scene, and then after a few minutes, talks about how he was joking because they had already planned on nerfing sonic blast, but he thought it would be funny to have someone clip that serious bit, so that it would make anyone who saw it draw the conclusion that it was his idea for it to be nerfed? Is that is the correct assessment of the situation? Perhaps it is amusing, actually, but I do not think it adds to the professionalism argument.

[dogsoldier]

How about Lamannia feedback? Was that just playing a little joke on us as well? Pretending that our feedback was important, but really only a popular streamer's voice was to be considered?

[KraftLorance]

I am not a twitch person myself, clearly.

Yo, no problem. Like I said, it took me over half a decade before I got comfortable trying to use it, and then another year before I got desensitized to the vibe of the general Twitch culture. (And, of course, each stream has their own subculture, adding more complexity)

Is that is the correct assessment of the situation?

Idk dogsoldier, I'm not really qualified to speak for them. It would be a super valuable question to ask the streamer themselves, tho.

All I can say is SSG announced they were nerfing sonic blast. MORE than two days later, the streamer made an offhanded jab. That comment was clipped, and eventually found its way to the Forums. Some Forumfolk uncritically decided that the streamer was a Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Person who had undue influence on the dev team.

This sparked a wave of misdirected rage, which festered for around a month until it eventually coalesced into the nuked thread. The thread propagated the idea to people who were removed from the original incident. Eventually, the thread was nuked, but the anger was still there. Anger, again, built on a verity of untrue assumptions that at this point had gone through a month of telephone.

The entire basis for THIS thread we're in is that misdirected rage that stemmed from the belief that the Streamer got SSG to nerf sonic blast. The fact that belief is unequivocally false should move any rational person who believed it to introspect, isolate every other belief they have about the streamer in question, and figure out is each of those other assumptions are likewise based on a vacuous void of no-context hearsay.

After doing that, if a person still doesn't like the streamer... fair enough. I actively hate them, myself. They said we should bind our bard spells to keybinds on our keybords instead of a Guitar Hero Guitar, and that's a moral failing I don't think we should ever consider forgiving.

But the reasons for disliking a streamer (or a human, for that matter) should be based in truth.

This thread is, at BEST, built off an uncritical trust in misinformation. At worst, it was made entirely in bad faith.

How about Lamannia feedback? Was that just playing a little joke on us as well? Pretending that our feedback was important, but really only a popular streamer's voice was to be considered?

I mean, I'm no SSG HR manager, but I'm fairly sure the streamer we're talking about is not a staff member of SSG? And so they don't have anything to do with Lamannia, or the lack of feedback being accepted? Like, that's not a question I can answer.

I can guess that SSG was on a timeline and the investors/parent company(s) wouldn't let them delay. But it's a guess. I have no more proof for that than any other forumfolk has for their own pet theory. Idk, you should probably ask someone at SSG for an answer instead.

[dogsoldier]

Idk dogsoldier, I'm not really qualified to speak for them. It would be a super valuable question to ask the streamer themselves, tho.

It could be he thought click-bait clips might drive viewers to his streams. I would ask the question, but then I would have to watch another stream live or something. And it kind of worked for me, I watched about 15 minutes or so of that original stream, and that was way more Twitch than I had intended to watch today.

The lack of any reason for nerfing Sonic Blast from SSG didn't exactly curb any enthusiasm at speculation on the matter. They finally got around to fixing the Lore Accurate Single Target aspect of the spell after 16 years, and thought right in the middle of Stormsinger Lamannia testing would be the most opportune time to finally get it done, doesn't make much sense to me, probably not to very many other people either.

[cromotep]

Well, I was wrong. The thread is still up so SSG must think it is an important discussion. I'll take my post down.

[Cordovan]

The idea that an off hand comment from a streamer caused Sonic Blast to get its much needed balance adjustment is absurd. Just saying. It was a decision prompted by and executed by the team. We get that many of you dislike the change, but blame us for it rather than a streamer.

[droid327]

to get its much needed balance adjustment

Droid has challenged the ruling on the field that the Sonic Blast nerf was necessary, and actually created any kind of problem by being AOE

[Stimulus]

What's DDO?

[Karthunk]

Making a mountain out of an ant hill. Leave Strimtom alone.

[Strimtom]

So watching through the stream. I am not a twitch person myself, clearly. He acts all serious about it in the moment to set a scene, and then after a few minutes, talks about how he was joking because they had already planned on nerfing sonic blast, but he thought it would be funny to have someone clip that serious bit, so that it would make anyone who saw it draw the conclusion that it was his idea for it to be nerfed? Is that is the correct assessment of the situation? Perhaps it is amusing, actually, but I do not think it adds to the professionalism argument.

Ok so I have to comment on this, which I had avoided doing, since I figured this would blow over.

I am not responsible for the changes to sonic blast. The clip people were sharing was WELL after the news that the spell was being nerfed. I made a joke about it on stream and it got taken as literal. I would like to think that as an entertainer I can make a joke. If you decide to hold a person's word as gospel when hearing them speak for at most 30s and look no further then I can't help with that. I was under the impression it was just people who already hated me pushing this idea, but it turns out that even reasonable people think my 30s clip (a clip that wasn't produced by me or posted here by me or put into a youtube video by me) of me making a sonic blast joke (the irony being I died to the damage, not the aoe, which is getting nerfed, which should have been obvious) that was made AFTER the news the nerf was out was in fact a real statement that I wanted the spell nerfed. Which turned into 2 very specific targetted threads at me on this forums, and more threads in other places.

Yes, during my sometimes over 10 hour livestreams I will make a joke or laugh about something that a 30 second clip can't convey. I may also say something in a bad way and then correct myself as we all do in the day to day. The magic of livestreaming is it is improvisational and not curated. Very often I might even make a comment about my opinion on game balance, then I have a discussion with users in my chat who tell me information I might not know and my opinion changes; however you can easily make clips of me saying things are wrong even though I learn very quickly and change my opinions. I accept this on some level, but this is also my first witch hunt so I wasn't really ready.

Please, please, please, let it go. Hate me for other reasons and things that I might actually have done. But I haven't harassed others, asked people to harass others, or gotten sonic blast nerfed.

Want my opinion on sonic blast? Here, I have a video , where from 0:00 - 4:30 I talk about my opinions of the nerf and say that SSG deleted the spell from the videogame and I would have balanced it differently. Granted this isn't a 30s clip and I actually wanted this spread around since it's my opinion so this might not further peoples opinions that I singularly direct SSG to nerf spells and they follow my every command.

To the thread in question, which is obviously directed at me, I think that SSG should not support a streamer who attacks users in the community and should someone pop up who does this I would hope that appropriate action is taken. I just don't love how I stream the forums while the game is down, and then this thread happens as a response, it's really easy to make the inference (as others have in this thread) that I am culpable for every offence listed here.

[FixBows]

What really blows my mind is that 1 spell gets nerfed for casters while every couple of updates longbows get some new nerf. Try having your entire combat system that is based on BaB for damage and doubleshot get a big nerf out of the blue... of course, not directly saying they nerfed long/short bows, but of course they nerfed the heck out of them. Casters are still way OP in the game and rarely get any nerfs of consequence. So, one spell that was OP for both players and mobs gets nerfed and people freak out. All I can say be thankful it is one spell and not your entire combat system.

What really irritates me about a certain streamer is the flippant remark to BaB (bow) nerfs as ... well, DDO is easy, so no big deal. Thanks bro... really appreciate the comment.

[salmag]

This thread is going off topic.

It is not about the Sonic Blast nerf, nor combat styles, nor widgets for that matter.

I am curious about what SSG should do about streamers that portray the DDO community in a bad light. We, (forumites), overall like/love this game and would like to continue playing it. That means we need more retention, not less.

Streaming is advertising, and it's probably the ONLY advertising DDO has. This game cannot afford bad press, let alone, casting the community in a bad light.

If anyone looking for a game to play checks out Youtube, Twitch, etc. do you think they would come to DDO based off of a streamer verbally attacking someone from the forums, or SSG in general? I understand SSG doesn't have control over streamers but should they limit any benefits to them i.e. early access, etc.? What should be done on SSG's part?

[LurkingVeteran]

Ok so I have to comment on this, which I had avoided doing, since I figured this would blow over.

I am not responsible for the changes to sonic blast. The clip people were sharing was WELL after the news that the spell was being nerfed. I made a joke about it on stream and it got taken as literal. I would like to think that as an entertainer I can make a joke. If you decide to hold a person's word as gospel when hearing them speak for at most 30s and look no further then I can't help with that. I was under the impression it was just people who already hated me pushing this idea, but it turns out that even reasonable people think my 30s clip (a clip that wasn't produced by me or posted here by me or put into a youtube video by me) of me making a sonic blast joke (the irony being I died to the damage, not the aoe, which is getting nerfed, which should have been obvious) that was made AFTER the news the nerf was out was in fact a real statement that I wanted the spell nerfed. Which turned into 2 very specific targetted threads at me on this forums, and more threads in other places.

Yes, during my sometimes over 10 hour livestreams I will make a joke or laugh about something that a 30 second clip can't convey. I may also say something in a bad way and then correct myself as we all do in the day to day. The magic of livestreaming is it is improvisational and not curated. Very often I might even make a comment about my opinion on game balance, then I have a discussion with users in my chat who tell me information I might not know and my opinion changes; however you can easily make clips of me saying things are wrong even though I learn very quickly and change my opinions. I accept this on some level, but this is also my first witch hunt so I wasn't really ready.

Please, please, please, let it go. Hate me for other reasons and things that I might actually have done. But I haven't harassed others, asked people to harass others, or gotten sonic blast nerfed.

Want my opinion on sonic blast? Here, I have a video , where from 0:00 - 4:30 I talk about my opinions of the nerf and say that SSG deleted the spell from the videogame and I would have balanced it differently. Granted this isn't a 30s clip and I actually wanted this spread around since it's my opinion so this might not further peoples opinions that I singularly direct SSG to nerf spells and they follow my every command.

To the thread in question, which is obviously directed at me, I think that SSG should not support a streamer who attacks users in the community and should someone pop up who does this I would hope that appropriate action is taken. I just don't love how I stream the forums while the game is down, and then this thread happens as a response, it's really easy to make the inference (as others have in this thread) that I am culpable for every offence listed here.

I second this. Strimtom may have put Sonic Blast in the S-tier, but he also put Acid Rain there. No need to take him seriously, 100% improvised.

[Reign.]

Remember when this thread was about the fear of (hypothetical) harassments?

(no, reading the forums or calling out someone in game isn't harassment)

Every streamer I've noticed, when they've had a bad interaction, usually do not use their platform to invite people to harass someone. Even better, they often remind their audience not to harass that person. Including the 'streamer in question' who in the very stream in question, also reminded folks to not harass anyone. As a result, no one was harassed as far as I know.

So, I personally believe this to be a non-issue. However, conduct guidelines, terms of service, and so forth not only already exist for SSG, but also exist for streaming platforms as well. So if SSG wants to raise the bar, sure, but what they have in place already is sufficient. And both have tools for reporting harassment that we can use should the need ever arise. No one wants to see bullying or harassment happen.

Since this came across my youtube recommended today, I thought I'd share a story that has an actual example of someone harassing another streamer. Result, they were temp banned from twitch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5jpPCpYK5A

[LurkingVeteran]

On the Sonic Blast tangent: Sonic blast was definitely out of line with the other spells. Were the classes using it out of line? That's a much tougher call. It filled a niche for low-level arcanes vs. melee, and bards/air savants generally. It should still be a great choice for those classes (unless they changed it more than advertised), but the alternatives weren't great to begin with.