Bard trapper with a twist... build help needed

[Malkariss]

Hey all I will soon be taking my 3rd life with my group of friends and have decided not to do my usual tank. My brother had been trapping for us and wants to try a caster so I was debating building some type of bard/trapper build. I have recently started reading the wheel of time book series and would like to make a bard using throwing knives based around a character in the series but am not sure if this possible. Wanted to get some build ideas from you guys as I have never built a bard or a throwing knife build. Thanks in advance.

[C-Dog]

Bard/trappers are doable, esp 3rd+ life - not sure about how much synergy there is in a Bard/Trapper/Thrower. (i.e. You might be able to shoehorn in all the pieces, but they won't fit as nicely as some other options.)

Thrower builds tend to be backloaded - that is, they don't pick up steam until later Heroics, and tend to have weak(er) DPS to start.


Questions:
Do you have access to the Vistani tree? (can be earned via Ravenloft)

If not, Harper tree?

[Malkariss]

Bard/trappers are doable, esp 3rd+ life - not sure about how much synergy there is in a Bard/Trapper/Thrower. (i.e. You might be able to shoehorn in all the pieces, but they won't fit as nicely as some other options.)

Thrower builds tend to be backloaded - that is, they don't pick up steam until later Heroics, and tend to have weak(er) DPS to start.


Questions:
Do you have access to the Vistani tree? (can be earned via Ravenloft)

If not, Harper tree?

I know I have harper and can buy Vistani if I dont. I am not afraid to spend a little money to make this build work if thats what it takes XD
I guess it should be mentioned my past lives have been CHA based so this will likely be looking to be CHA based as well.

[cru121]

So, I am assuming you're trying to recreate Thom Merrilin. Who is indeed a fun character, but his skills are mostly social. I don't recall him having any magical abilities. It doesn't really translate well into DDO action.

Anyway, given your preferences:
* You can get charisma to hit from https://ddowiki.com/page/Feydark_Ill...t_enhancements (3 AP)
* You can get charisma to damage from https://ddowiki.com/page/Swashbuckle...nts#Tier_Three (12+ AP)
* Mad dagger skills from https://ddowiki.com/page/Vistani_Kni...r_enhancements (up to 41+ AP)

Some feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Precision, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw

Here's some not-so-old discussion that involves Bard, Rogue, Thrower:
https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...-Thrower-Build

[Malkariss]

So, I am assuming you're trying to recreate Thom Merrilin. Who is indeed a fun character, but his skills are mostly social. I don't recall him having any magical abilities. It doesn't really translate well into DDO action.

Anyway, given your preferences:
* You can get charisma to hit from https://ddowiki.com/page/Feydark_Ill...t_enhancements (3 AP)
* You can get charisma to damage from https://ddowiki.com/page/Swashbuckle...nts#Tier_Three (12+ AP)
* Mad dagger skills from https://ddowiki.com/page/Vistani_Kni...r_enhancements (up to 41+ AP)

Some feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Precision, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw

Here's some not-so-old discussion that involves Bard, Rogue, Thrower:
https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...-Thrower-Build

This was indeed the idea XD
It doesn't have to be done but I have been playing the Steelmaiden hyper tank for so long now I wanted to try to build something fun if not 100% viable.

Gonna do some reading and studying and might end up scrapping the idea and just building a rogue trapper using daggers and INT. Not sure yet tbh. Obviously that would be much more viable. Looking at different bard trapper builds to see if I can find something I like.

Edit: This supercrit bardbarian build with hand axes certainly looks fun. I just need to get some rogue levels in it somewhere for trapping
https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...big-bard-crits

[unbongwah]

I have recently started reading the wheel of time book series and would like to make a bard using throwing knives based around a character in the series but am not sure if this possible.

Possible? Sure. A good idea? ....eeeennh?

So the baseline for a throwing dagger build would be rogue 11 / ranger 6 / bard 3: lots of sneak attacks, Sniper Shot, probably Improved Archer's Focus from tier-5 Deepwood Stalker. The bard 3 splash is just to unlock Swashbuckling, Dashing Scoundrel (+10% Doubleshot), and doubleshot action boost. DEX-based because of how Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise works. If you flipped it around to be bard 12 / ranger 6 / rogue 2, you'd have much lower personal DPS (give up about half your sneak attacks), but access to higher-level bard buffs to be more of a team support build.

Theoretically you could do CHA-based bard 18 / rogue 2, but your throwing DPS takes a nose dive and you become more feat-constrained so...what, your spell DCs are higher? Might as well play a rogue-splash Stormsinger and go all-in on caster bard, IMO.

[Malkariss]

Possible? Sure. A good idea? ....eeeennh?

So the baseline for a throwing dagger build would be rogue 11 / ranger 6 / bard 3: lots of sneak attacks, Sniper Shot, probably Improved Archer's Focus from tier-5 Deepwood Stalker. The bard 3 splash is just to unlock Swashbuckling, Dashing Scoundrel (+10% Doubleshot), and doubleshot action boost. DEX-based because of how Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise works. If you flipped it around to be bard 12 / ranger 6 / rogue 2, you'd have much lower personal DPS (give up about half your sneak attacks), but access to higher-level bard buffs to be more of a team support build.

Theoretically you could do CHA-based bard 18 / rogue 2, but your throwing DPS takes a nose dive and you become more feat-constrained so...what, your spell DCs are higher? Might as well play a rogue-splash Stormsinger and go all-in on caster bard, IMO.

I had literally just got done test building and come up with 12 rogue/5 ranger/3 bard with feydark splash for CHA and then come back to find your post! Seems like I am on the correct path but am curious why 11 rogue and 6 ranger instead of 12 and 5 as this unlocks the next rogue core enhancement. Super thankful for everyone's help and am excited to try this monstrosity even if its not optimized lol.

Edit: After reading the explanation for simple thrown weapon expertise I might just go dex based.... I mean I have +8 tomes for everything anyway XD

[Enoach]

The bard/rogue is definitely a good mix. The question really comes down to what is the best class level mix. And which trees.

I generally run a 18/2 Bard/Rogue with Inquisitor and SpellSinger - being more a Party Healer/Buffer/Range/Roguish support. As I've found the Light/heavy duel xbow to be a fun mix (rogue at 1 and then 9 or 10).

However, with a thrower, you could consider a Swashbuckler/Vistani approach. Swashbuckler has synergy with knife throwing but also consider Feydark Illusionist where you can use Charisma.

The recommendation would be to use one of the planners to plan it out. Especially when it comes to skill points and feat selection.

[unbongwah]

Seems like I am on the correct path but am curious why 11 rogue and 6 ranger instead of 12 and 5 as this unlocks the next rogue core enhancement.

Two words: Sniper Shot.

Performs a ranged attack with +2[W], a +4 bonus to-hit, +2 to critical threat range, and +2 to Critical Damage Multiplier. On Damage: The target will become momentarily confused and rendered vulnerable to sneak attacks for four seconds as if affected by the bluff skill. (Cooldown 6 seconds)

Since a decent chunk of your damage comes from sneak attacks, being able to reliably proc SA-vulnerability is important. I think there are Inquisitive builds with a similar split - i.e., rogue 12 / ranger 6 / Artificer 2 - for the same reason.

[Malkariss]

Two words: Sniper Shot.

Performs a ranged attack with +2[W], a +4 bonus to-hit, +2 to critical threat range, and +2 to Critical Damage Multiplier. On Damage: The target will become momentarily confused and rendered vulnerable to sneak attacks for four seconds as if affected by the bluff skill. (Cooldown 6 seconds)

Since a decent chunk of your damage comes from sneak attacks, being able to reliably proc SA-vulnerability is important. I think there are Inquisitive builds with a similar split - i.e., rogue 12 / ranger 6 / Artificer 2 - for the same reason.

Perfect! Thanks so much for the explanation. I believe this is the path I will look to follow after my next TR. If you have a link for a build guide that shows level progression that would be amazing. If not I will dig around here to find one! Thanks again!