32 Point Drow Sacred Fist - Follower of Vulkoor - 16/3/1 Paladin / Monk / FvS

[dogsoldier]

Edit: This Says 32 point, but Drow is weird insofar as it gets only 28 build points by default, but is unique in getting +2 to three different stats (CHA/DEX/INT), and -2 to CON. Unless you have past lives and that is increased, but never actually becomes 36 point with past lives. That sounds needlessly complicated, but I am just saying that this works well as a first life build, and especially given the stat requirements that are needed for Paladin and Two Weapon Fighting.

I posted this in a thread in general discussion, thought I would put it here in case someone finds it interesting.

One of the cool features of this setup is that it really seems like you could have a solid setup with either Shortswords + Ninja Spy and Drow trees and Sacred Fist, or Daggers with Vistani and Sacred Fist.

Shortswords are centered with just one action point, so that is the obvious starting point to go that route at level 1.

Where it gets interesting is level 12 Vistani Core which gives you the same critical threat and multiplier that you would get from Holy Sword. Pure Paladin does not get that until level 15, multiclass gets it later, but Vistani Level 12 core replaces Holy Sword in the Paladin level 4 spell list, which means that you can take Zeal And Ki Explosion, which is important because you only ever get two level 4 spells.

So probably 1-11 Shortswords, swapping to Daggers at level 12.

If you can live without Ki explosion (its good for burst, but it is expensive on Ki, so you wont be using it all the time), then you could use Shortswords with Holy Sword when you have 15 Paladin levels (level 17 if you push back the last two monk levels). Precision is not all that important until Epic levels, and you probably wont need healing Ki anyway with Paladin cures and Lay on Hands.

Lawful Good Drow 16/3/1 Sacred Fist, Monk, Favored Soul

Edit: Stats adjusted to cut down on Encumbrance for True First Life No Gear or Tomes, based upon my experiences (more details on that at the bottom of this post):
STR 12 (drop to 8 if you have tomes and gear waiting for you)
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 16 (increase to 18 if you have tomes and gear waiting for you)

Skills:
At least one rank in both UMD and Tumble
Max Concentration
Max Heal
Max Diplomacy

On creation, and on second and third monk and and the favored soul levels, boost some of the nice to have things that you cannot get as class skills from Sacred Fist, like Jump on Favored Soul level, and Spot/Jump, etc. on Monk Levels. Concentration and heal are the most important skills, you can take concentration at every level, but on monk levels don't waste skill points on heal when every other level you can take it as a class skill.

Level 1 Monk: Martial Arts Feat: Two Weapon Fighting, Regular Feat Two Weapon Defense (we want the +10 MRR cap from TWD right off the bat, and monk gets more skills, so more on creation)
Level 2: Favored Soul: Follower of Vulkoor, Spells: Nightshield, Cure Light Wounds (we want a Divine Class by level 3, because we do not want to waste a feat slot, and a Divine can take Empower Healing)
Level 3: Sacred Fist: Empower Healing
Level 4: Sacred Fist +1 DEX, ALL remaining level ups in CHA
Level 5: Sacred Fist
Level 6: Sacred Fist: Adept of Forms (we cannot take Improved Two Weapon fighting here, but that is fine because we want the upgrades to monk stances)
Level 7: Sacred Fist
Level 8: Sacred Fist
Level 9: Sacred Fist: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Sacred Fist:
Level 11: Sacred Fist:
Level 12: Sacred Fist: Master of Forms (this is going to sound counter-intuitive, because you are going to want to take imp critical instead, but know that this gives you either passive ki generation boosts, or ki generation on hit, you want it here)
Level 13: Sacred Fist (this is where you get your first major Ki spell, Incinerating wave, you will like the extra Ki for this
Level 14: Sacred Fist (now with 12 levels of Sacred Fist you basically have the main core of the class, 23 AP in Sacred Fist gets you most of what you want)
Level 15: Monk: Martial Arts Feat Precision, regular Feat Improved Critical Piercing
Level 16: Monk: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light (healing Ki stuff, and you can take the level 3 core in Ninja spy)
Level 17: Sacred Fist
Level 18: Sacred Fist: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19: Sacred Fist
Level 20: Sacred Fist
Level 21: Grandmaster of Forms (If you are going into epics and utilizing the GMoF tree you probably want this)
Level 22: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Level 24: Overwhelming Critical
Level 25: Crush Weakness
Level 27: Quicken (you want it if you are going to do legendary questing at cap)
Level 28: Pierce Adamantine Or Cold Iron (take the other one from GMoF when you pickup extra Ki generation there)
Level 30: Scion of Arborea
Level 30: Epic Reflexes if you are not utilizing Shadowdancer, or probably Intensify if you are (your Cure Mod SLA from Radiant Servant can benefit from it, as well as the Cure Mod Mass SLA from Exalted Angel if you wanted to go into that tree for another healing SLA)

Enhancements on creation as level 7 Vet II test character:



Edit: Changed Favored Soul Spell Selection: Cure Light + Nightshield, Swap out Cure Light once it stops being useful when you have Level 1 Paladin Spells, and can dedicate a slot to Protection from Evil. Probably at level 8 when you get your second Paladin Level 1 spell Slot

Edit: Changed the stat recommendations for STR and CHA based upon my experience as true first life no gear. I was not getting encumbered all the time, but enough to push me into Fire Stance only 1-5, I still want that option for +2 STR from fire, but I want the extra DPS from Wind stance too sometimes, options basically. And I have no tomes or gear. This will simplify my Gear Tetris as I can basically ignore the STR part of it for now. I used the free Lesser Reincarnation that all new characters get on creation, at level 5 to adjust stats. Slightly less Damage, Significantly less Encumbrance, not a bad trade.

[dogsoldier]

Also, FYI, due to where the Follower of Vulkoor Feat was taken (level 2), it can be swapped out with a Flawed Siberys Dragonshard at Fred for Blood of Vol if you wanted to use Daggers instead at some point. And you can crunch a new Flawed Siberys Dragonshard for just 100 Siberys Dragonshard Fragments at the Stone of Change.

[dogsoldier]

Also, this build can use Shadowblades if you have access to the Feydark Illusionist tree. On a Pure Paladin you would have to grab the Magical Training feat somwhere, but multiclass gets it when they take the Favored Soul Level as an autogranted caster feat. So you would be able to summon a Shadowblade at level 2.

[donblas]

And shadow blades are ki weapons.

[dogsoldier]

And shadow blades are ki weapons.

Yes they are, and they also have native CHA to hit and damage, which wouldn't otherwise kick in until 6 levels of Sacred Fist.

[C-Dog]

On a Pure Paladin you would have to grab the Magical Training feat somewhere...

Or anywhere, and just swap it back out via Fred once you hit L6. 2-Weapon Defense or Precision both seem like a reasonable add to the mix about then, but that's just off the top of my head.

[dogsoldier]

Or anywhere, and just swap it back out via Fred once you hit L6. 2-Weapon Defense or Precision both seem like a reasonable add to the mix about then, but that's just off the top of my head.

You cannot select it just anywhere though, as much as you might want Magical Training at level 1, it limits your feat choices. You cannot take Precision before level 3 for instance.

[C-Dog]

You cannot take Precision before level 3 for instance.

Um, since when? You cannot take it before BAB 1.

More, if your first class choice is BAB 0, then if you take Monk (or Fighter) at L2, Precision is perfectly legit there.

[dogsoldier]

This post is for a multiclass build that takes two non-full-BAB classes before taking sacred fist. Saying someone could take it at 1, in the context of this thread is wrong, and saying that pure sacred fist is either just as good, or better is out of scope.

Pure Sacred Fist definitely has problems from my experience having played it 15-32 myself. It is a somewhat complicated discussion about the nuances. Even the biggest fans of the new Archetype would agree with that.

[dogsoldier]

Also Fighter at level 2 works for Precision from a BAB perspective, and the bonus feat is nice. But you lose one of: Choice of Deity for a weapon that you prefer more than Handwraps, or Monk Stances.

That is another somewhat complicated discussion, it is also out of scope of this thread, that wants Both Deity of my Choosing, and Monk Stances, while trying to keep as much of the core Sacred Fist as possible.

[dogsoldier]

If someone really likes Kung Fu Animations, and/or has some nice handwraps already that they wanted to use, then there could be a fun 18/1/1 Sacred Fist / Fighter / Monk build. Again, that would be out of scope of this thread, but it could be interesting to someone, just not for me right now.

[C-Dog]

Saying someone could take it at 1, in the context of this thread is wrong..

Hate to tell you, but your post (nor mine) said nothing about "in the context of this thread" - it reads as an absolute statement, and as such your post reads as "wrong".

If(!) we're only talking about this post - then you'd be correct. But I wasn't (even if you were).

In the context of this build (see what I did there?), you could easily swap the class order to achieve what I was talking about.

[KoobTheProud]

It'll be interesting to see how people do with this build.

I had a Drow Paladin/Monk ages ago that did fairly well with shortswords. Then I hit Epics and it absolutely died to a shortfall of DPS, even with sunswords in the mix.

[C-Dog]

It'll be interesting to see how people do with this build.

The theory-craft looks(?!) solid; planning on giving something like it a try next life.

[dogsoldier]

Hate to tell you, but your post (nor mine) said nothing about "in the context of this thread" - it reads as an absolute statement, and as such your post reads as "wrong".

If(!) we're only talking about this post - then you'd be correct. But I wasn't (even if you were).

In the context of this build (see what I did there?), you could easily swap the class order to achieve what I was talking about.

Well, I have have had ideas for these in my head for a little while now thinking ahead to what I want to do for my next Sacred Fist life. So for any of the scenarios I have looked at, it would be 3+ where I could have the option to take it. I am front loading a caster class intentionally gimping my BAB so that I can take a metamagic at level 3. So there are several avenues of logic that I am applying with leveling order. Paladin cannot take Metamagics, Monks get Precision for free anytime they want for one of their Martial Arts feats, which I pickup with the second Monk level. I am front loading Monk for Skills, and can make the most of my first martial arts feat with Two Weapon Fighting there. Monk cannot take any of the other TWF feats as martial arts feats.

[dogsoldier]

It'll be interesting to see how people do with this build.

I had a Drow Paladin/Monk ages ago that did fairly well with shortswords. Then I hit Epics and it absolutely died to a shortfall of DPS, even with sunswords in the mix.

A lot has changed since then with Epic Destinies, weapon choices, and sentience. I am not sure how it will do in Epic either because I am going to try using Grandmaster of Flowers as my main tree, which I have never done before (I don't often run monks). The main thing that I wanted to test is how it does at cap in R6-10. I do not expect it to be "top DPS" at all, but I want it to be fun and have enough MRR to soak at least some of the champ DoTs and reaper spells.

[C-Dog]

Level 3: Sacred Fist: Empower Healing

Pure theorycrafting, but I have to wonder about spell-point use - would Maximize be affordable? If he's not the "party healer" then Max would not be used too often, and he'd get more out of the emergency healing (when he's not using LoH).

[dogsoldier]

Pure theorycrafting, but I have to wonder about spell-point use - would Maximize be affordable? If he's not the "party healer" then Max would not be used too often, and he'd get more out of the emergency healing (when he's not using LoH).

Yeah in heroics maximize is better, but I am thinking ahead for potential usage with Cacoon and / or Renewal which cannot use maximize, but can use empower healing. A feat swap for that is possible is you prefer better cure mod SLA in heroics. Empower Healing works on all three.

[dogsoldier]

It'll be interesting to see how people do with this build.

The theory-craft looks(?!) solid; planning on giving something like it a try next life.

I am going to run this one next life. I have to clear my TR cache, and was kind of procrastinating that because I had hoped for more storage, but will just have to part with some of the might be useful someday type of things to get it done. Thank you both for your feedback on this.

[C-Dog]

I was running with some folk, talking about dropping SF 18 for Monk 3, and they were appalled - not by the loss of SF Core 18, but the loss of Sacred Defender Core 18, namely:

• +25 Healing Amp
• +3 Lay on Hands charges
• +10% Sacred Bonus to Max HP
• +5 to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating

That's a pretty good laundry list. Added to the rest, for 31 AP... attractive.

As shown, this build doesn't specify the AP spread - wondering if you'd dismissed SD or what, and which tree you were considering for Tier V.

Still theory-crafting here, so the jury's out, but I'm thinking now that this build might(?) be better for Heroic Leveling (i.e. it will get to 20 better), but for going on to 30 it might not be the best mix? Just adding new grist to the mill. :/