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  1. #1
    Community Member Loriega's Avatar
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    Default Revert the nerfs

    I post because I still care. I will stop caring when my subscription expires and I quit playing this "game", unless you add the fun back.

    - Restore Sonic Blast and nerf Stormsinger, no one asked for this, no one likes this change
    - Restore FVS cores

    What used to do 350-450 damage now does 130-150, sun burst
    What used to do 150-200 does 50-90 now, lvl1 radiance spell SLA

    - Merge the servers

    Hardcore league has shown that your network is capable of handling half the active population of this game on 1 world.
    I'm more or less done with hc. Got all my "rewards". Playing on regular servers, they're ghost towns now.
    Hardcore server is starting to get more and more empty. Playing on hc is no fun because hound stress, but it's fun because there were people to play with and reasons to run quests.
    However back to the regular server, it's bleh, the same old 15 people running the eternal hamster wheel. Mostly soloing.

    I have not played for 2 days because those nerfs completely removed any motivation to play this game.
    I logged in today, played with a lvl11 sorc, sonic blast nerf.. removed fun, logged out.
    Logged on a lvl5 fvs, damage nerfs are no fun, logged out.
    Server down, so I'm posting my frustration on the forums.

    What else?
    A bug report: Feywild heroic set with the +10 HP and +50 to mana is useless, if you remove 1 set piece to use expeditious boots for instance and equip it again you lose 10 HP and 50 mana, making the set bonus of 2 and 3 pieces useless.

    I won't even start about how disrespectful it was to push this sorry excuse of an update after 1 month of hc.

    I for one am already on the lookout for different games to have fun in. Maybe one of those "dead" games running on an emu, like daoc or vanguard soh ( apparently it's receiving people's attention recently) or SWG, or some slower paced FPS.

    Of course that's just me, but I have a feeling I'm not alone with my opinion.

    p.s. if you send me messages, I never read em, sorry.

  2. #2
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    1. It's how the spell was always supposed to work.
    2. That's not a bug, that's how things have always worked. Why would you retain the bonus when not using the item? That's silly.

  3. #3
    Community Member Garix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfElectricMen View Post
    1. It's how the spell was always supposed to work.
    2. That's not a bug, that's how things have always worked. Why would you retain the bonus when not using the item? That's silly.
    I agree with your first point but the 2nd? Not so much.

    If you're wearing 4+ pieces and swap one (so you're still wearing 3+) it treats you as if you've removed all of them, and then reapplies. So if you're in a quest you're down 10hp and 50sp. It's not gaming breaking but it is ruddy annoying.
    Leader of Shrodingers Cat Support Group a Husband and Wife guild on Orien.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfElectricMen View Post
    2. That's not a bug, that's how things have always worked. Why would you retain the bonus when not using the item? That's silly.
    It's a bug. If you have a 4 piece set on, and remove one item to use a clickie, then the bonus from the 2 piece set is lost, and then regained, but if you entered the quest with all 4 pieces on and then removed one, you lost the +50 mana from the 2 piece set. I think that is what the original poster was trying to say. Heck, you could have all 7 pieces, and swap one piece, and then you lose the 50 mana from the 2 piece and if you were at an even number for your mana stat then you lose even more.

    That's not silly, its (insert your favorite derogatory adjective here).

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfElectricMen View Post
    1. It's how the spell was always supposed to work.
    2. That's not a bug, that's how things have always worked. Why would you retain the bonus when not using the item? That's silly.
    1.) When something in game for over a decade, its WAI. The only excuse to change clearly is to introduce another aspect. Poor argument.
    2.) Although not a bug it is clearly an oversight with unintended consequences for using a clicky swap, no other set requires 7pcs and if you are only wearing 7 and remove one, it does remove the buff completely, which clearly is unintended. Maybe the HP/SP boost should be moved lower down to 5 pcs say. Or just make it an entire set bonus of 5 pcs like every other set. Again kind of lackluster response to the OP, especially considering every character likely is still relying on ER clickies at these levels.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfElectricMen View Post
    1. It's how the spell was always supposed to work.
    That's not good enough. An Appeal to Authority is a rhetorical fallacy...it might be how it was supposed to work, but that doesnt mean its automatically a positive change.

    You'd need to establish why A) it was problematic being an AOE (and why nerfing it was the best solution), or B) why its better being single-target. And I havent seen a cogent argument for either, just people pointing to the rulebook. But rules are only justified when they make things better.

    There are plenty of examples where the devs have fixed a bug by just declaring it WAI and changing the tooltip...this was probably the right move for Sonic Blast

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=jskinner937;6540085]1.) When something in game for over a decade, its WAI. The only excuse to change clearly is to introduce another aspect. Poor argument.

    LOL, with that logic if a bug has been in the game for 10 years then it's WAI and doesn't need to be fixed anymore, right? Not saying I entirely agree with this particular change but this particular argument against the change doesn't really hold any water.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=misterski;6540099]
    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    1.) When something in game for over a decade, its WAI. The only excuse to change clearly is to introduce another aspect. Poor argument.

    LOL, with that logic if a bug has been in the game for 10 years then it's WAI and doesn't need to be fixed anymore, right? Not saying I entirely agree with this particular change but this particular argument against the change doesn't really hold any water.
    The logic is that Sonic Blast function was never a bug. It was clearly working as intended despite the tooltip. I would go even as far to say that the tooltip may have just been a copy of the D&D rule set, but the devs changed the spell to be more functional for low level casters. If there was a bug, it would be in the tooltip itself, not the function of the spell. How many other things that benefit players would have been left in game for decade? If it was gamebreaking it would have been nerfed the same week it was introduced. And considering the change only comes from the introduction of a new archetype only supports this argument. This is only rationalized now as not WAI to make room for something new. This is not the same as a bug, like ladders, or something else the devs neglect to fix. There was jsut so many other ways this could have been handled without alienating the majority of the playerbase. Lets see how a brainstorming session might work from the devs:

    1.) Remove SLA and spell from Stormsinger Archetype (probably the easiest and right move). Then players can choose. But that might not lead to a popular choice for stormsinger. See the point?

    2.) Remove procs from electric strike on aoe spells or just sonic blast specifically. Again it kind of leaves stormsinger behind spellsinger.

    3.) Nerf sonic blast out of orbit so that it leaves no choice and Stormsinger is a success. But this really didnt happen either, because it is not really different to play and is still underwhelming overall compared to stormsinger.

    4.) Remove Sonic Blast Aoe, but add a chain to add a chain to the attack to affect additional targets at certain casting levels, say 2 at level 3 and cap at 3 at level 5. This would have been the logical compromise.

    Oh also can anyone point out where sonic blast was ever reported on a bug list? or on the devs own bug list? Because it was never a bug. So yeah the logic makes sense.
    Last edited by jskinner937; 09-08-2022 at 11:06 AM.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=jskinner937;6540103]
    Quote Originally Posted by misterski View Post

    The logic is that Sonic Blast function was never a bug. It was clearly working as intended despite the tooltip. How many other things that benefit players would have been left in game for decade? If it was gamebreaking it would have been nerfed the same week it was introduced. And considering the change only comes from the introduction of a new archetype only supports this argument. This is only rationalized now as not WAI to make room for something new. This is not the same as a bug, like ladders, or something else the devs neglect to fix.
    A spell working differently from its tooltip is clearly a bug. That's not really arguable. What's arguable is that the change was needed in the first place. There are arguments for and against it. I personally wish they would have just fixed the tooltip and nerfed it's scaling a little to be inline with other level 1 damage spells and gave the cc effect a save.

  10. #10
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    I for one don't mind the so-called "nerf". A level 1 spell that had a mass daze effect, sorry, that was just over the top. That's not something you should expect from a freaking level 1 spell.

    The people that are yelling loudest get all the forum space here lately, so let me be the one to applaud SSG for taking the step in toning down a spell that clearly wasn't doing what it was supposed to be doing.

    With regards to that other "nerf" (yes, quoted again). A few months I ran a few heroic quests (R4 I think) along with a FVS. They were absolutely annihilating everything without so much as a sweat. Since I had been back from a long break I told them that it was pretty heavy DPS what there were doing. They agreed.

    I don't think SSG is toning down spells out of the blue and they're not doing it to pester you. It was pretty obvious that things were out of whack.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=misterski;6540109]
    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post

    A spell working differently from its tooltip is clearly a bug. That's not really arguable. What's arguable is that the change was needed in the first place. There are arguments for and against it. I personally wish they would have just fixed the tooltip and nerfed it's scaling a little to be inline with other level 1 damage spells and gave the cc effect a save.
    Yes exactly. Clearly the tooltip was the bug if it was left unchanged for a decade. There have been countless other abilities and spells in the game that have tooltips adjusted to match the actual effect. Again speaking from logic, how many other abilities or spells have been changed to match the tooltip after a decade? If the spell/ability was wrong, it is usually fixed very quickly, not after 10 years. And again the timing of the change is the question. Why is it wrong now? Why force this change to force people to play crappy archetypes?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarandra View Post
    I for one don't mind the so-called "nerf". A level 1 spell that had a mass daze effect, sorry, that was just over the top. That's not something you should expect from a freaking level 1 spell.
    Although my casters do not personally use this "Sonic Blast" spell, I found the spell okay. Its been there for more than 10 years. This sudden change "reset" or should I say "upset" players?!?

    If this was just because Strictom was complaining in hardcore that he was one shot by the sonic blast spell... the nerf is idiotic.


    [...]
    With regards to that other "nerf" (yes, quoted again). A few months I ran a few heroic quests (R4 I think) along with a FVS. They were absolutely annihilating everything without so much as a sweat. Since I had been back from a long break I told them that it was pretty heavy DPS what there were doing. They agreed.

    I don't think SSG is toning down spells out of the blue and they're not doing it to pester you. It was pretty obvious that things were out of whack.
    Should we nerf sorcerers too? Since their damage is also "out of whack" like you said. As a sorcerer player too my sorceress can also blast those monsters on R4 without a sweat.

    Actually, I found one particular good FvS player on Sarlona, just TR'd FvS out to be a full sorcerer now. FvS as a fun class is now dead.

    FvS as a class has the lowest population of any server environment. Nerfing these spells took out the damage "fun" out of the class. FvS light spells cannot be like sorcerers; sorcerers have energy bypass. So some constructs like in LLOB have light absorption. This was nerfed back then to tone down the damage already. As a healing class, its not that great and as a player, I do NOT play FvS to solely be a "healing" class. I only heal when I as a player has the "agility" and "saw" the need.
    Last edited by Tyrande; 09-08-2022 at 11:32 AM.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarandra View Post
    I for one don't mind the so-called "nerf". A level 1 spell that had a mass daze effect, sorry, that was just over the top. That's not something you should expect from a freaking level 1 spell.

    The people that are yelling loudest get all the forum space here lately, so let me be the one to applaud SSG for taking the step in toning down a spell that clearly wasn't doing what it was supposed to be doing.

    With regards to that other "nerf" (yes, quoted again). A few months I ran a few heroic quests (R4 I think) along with a FVS. They were absolutely annihilating everything without so much as a sweat. Since I had been back from a long break I told them that it was pretty heavy DPS what there were doing. They agreed.

    I don't think SSG is toning down spells out of the blue and they're not doing it to pester you. It was pretty obvious that things were out of whack.
    I dont mind balance. But balancing at low level heroics is crazy, when it has unintended consequences on end game. But that is the trend of nerfs. Nerf heroic abilitiy/spells out of orbit and make an SLA useless at cap. There were many suggestions that were made that fell on deaf ears. And I for one loved seeing bards for raids, groups, etc at cap. I am sure this change will discourage this moving forward. To be honest, I played melee bards mostly to cap through my PLs. But this change is bad for everyone.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    Although my casters do not personally use this "Sonic Blast" spell, I found the spell okay. Its been there for more than 10 years. This sudden change "reset" or should I say "upset" players?!?

    If this was just because Strictom was complaining in hardcore that he was one shot by the sonic blast spell... the nerf is idiotic.




    Should we nerf sorcerers too? Since their damage is also "out of whack" like you said. As a sorcerer player too my sorceress can also blast those monsters on R4 without a sweat.

    Actually, I found one particular good FvS player on Sarlona, just TR'd FvS out to be a full sorcerer now. FvS as a fun class is now dead.

    FvS as a class has the lowest population of any server environment. Nerfing these spells took out the damage "fun" out of the class. FvS light spells cannot be like sorcerers; sorcerers have energy bypass. So some constructs like in LLOB have light absorption. This was nerfed back then to tone down the damage already. As a healing class, its not that great and as a player, I do NOT play FvS to solely be a "healing" class. I only heal when I as a player has the "agility" and "saw" the need.
    Doesn't matter how long the sonic blast was what it was, the fact that it was doing something you shouldn't expect from a level 1 spell is why I find the "correction" OK. I don't know what led SSG to this correction, it also doesn't really matter to me.

    You keep referring to it as "nerfing" but I consider it balancing. Things were out of balance. I'm never hearing anyone complain that sorcerer DPS is out of whack by the way. FVS and Druids? That's another matter still.

    You keep dragging in irrelevant things to show that things shouldn't have been balanced. The fact that FVS is one of the classes that is being played the least? Completely and absolutely irrelevant to this balancing.

    Some player TR'd into a sorcerer and you concluding the FVS is now a dead class? Come on now. I still see quite some FVS players in high level content, never heard anyone complain recently.

  15. #15
    Community Member Karthunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarandra View Post
    With regards to that other "nerf" (yes, quoted again). A few months I ran a few heroic quests (R4 I think) along with a FVS. They were absolutely annihilating everything without so much as a sweat. Since I had been back from a long break I told them that it was pretty heavy DPS what there were doing. They agreed.

    I don't think SSG is toning down spells out of the blue and they're not doing it to pester you. It was pretty obvious that things were out of whack.
    Every nuking caster build does this in heroics. ALL of them.

    FVS was singled out and nerfed because of hardcore. FVS, now, has less nuking potential than a nuking cleric, in heroics, which begs the question of... what's the point of the FVS class?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarandra View Post
    Doesn't matter how long the sonic blast was what it was, the fact that it was doing something you shouldn't expect from a level 1 spell is why I find the "correction" OK.

    You keep referring to it as "nerfing" but I consider it balancing. Things were out of balance.
    Why shouldnt you expect it from a L1 spell? That seems to imply it was too powerful - which, after 10 years of observations, I dont think it was. It let arcane casters have essentially the same experience at low levels as martial builds. It didnt do anything that THF doesnt already do, at the same level of investment. There's no reason why casters have to arbitrarily suck at low level and be forced to plink-plink mobs one at a time.

    FvS being OP and needing a balance pass was a little more defensible. However, just because you agree they should've been balanced doesnt mean the nerf actually balanced them. They way over-nerfed them. They nuked nuking.

  17. #17
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    I just tr'd to a Spellsinger and started Korthos quests with my character and sonic blast is the only spell you have as a spellsinger at level 1. I was running out of sp way too fast with only a single target spell to use that I had to revert to melee to kill stuff. I mean, come on, a caster should be able to blow through Korthos like a knife through butter, my melees do. "balancing" or "nerfing" a decade old spell to accomadate an archtype is just plain crazy. I dont play a fvs but from what I've read that class is pretty much dead in the water now too (just because of hardcore). When somethings fun to play, they nerf it. We wouldn't want anyone to have fun in this game would we?

  18. #18
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    Just because something is "fun" for you doesn't mean it is good for the game.

    And it lessens the enjoyment from other players in a party when a single player just blasts everything into oblivion.

    One persons fun is another persons frustration.

  19. #19
    Community Member Karthunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Just because something is "fun" for you doesn't mean it is good for the game.

    And it lessens the enjoyment from other players in a party when a single player just blasts everything into oblivion.

    One persons fun is another persons frustration.
    Sorry, but if the plan is nerf casters until everything is "balanced" then they should just shut down the servers now. Not enough people are going to hang around for that nonsense.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Just because something is "fun" for you doesn't mean it is good for the game.

    And it lessens the enjoyment from other players in a party when a single player just blasts everything into oblivion.

    One persons fun is another persons frustration.
    Ok fine fair nuff .............1 question though who cares who gets the kills in low heroics ....go back to your solo game jeez

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