Notes from the Sacred Fist

[dogsoldier]

Has anyone tried to see if Arcane Warrior procs on the SF SLA's or Whirlwinds? That could be a pretty cool option to get some melee power from an otherwise pretty worthless epic feat.

That is a good question. I did not have that feat on my high level character, but there is some interesting info on the wiki. And they are not sure about Incinerating Wave, there, so someone would have to test it.

Non-spell effects which proc Arcane Warrior: Physical

Monk
Breath of the Fire Dragon (Fire-Fire-Fire finisher)
Ki Bolt
Cauldron of Flame (every tic, unlike most DoTs)
Possibly Incinerating Wave

https://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_Warrior

[Marshal_Lannes]

After hitting L18 I decided to put my Sacred Fist to the stress test. I ran a series of R4 quests, Murder by Night, The Riddle, Lord of Stone, End of the Road, and Rainbow in the Dark. Murder by Night and The Riddle have some of the densest HP mobs you'll see in heroics, the werewolves in Murder have more HPs than Velah, for example. And we get CR 25 Reapers. Fun. Simply put, I feel weak in Murder by Night and The Riddle. Now, part of this is melee in general problem and I took into account my performance with two other melees in the party and we were pretty much doing the same thing (10 kill range) being carried by an Alchemist. No way to really hurt a Reaper before it would crush me. Can't safely fight these mobs for any extended time without CC in place as even with defenses they do more sustained damage to me than I can do to them. Not a great play experience unless HP sadomasochism is your thing. Is Sacred Fist unplayable in R4 The Riddle? Not quite but almost.

End of the Road and Lord of Stone was a bit better. Defenses held up more here. Can be an effective secondary or support melee. You still feel underpowered from a DPS perspective but you can at least function as a party member. In Rainbow, I excelled, smashing the devils and finishing 2nd in kill count to an FVS with both of us far ahead of the rest of the party. I was using Dwarven Brawling wraps (Banishing) so that certainly helped. This points out a problem not specific to Sacred Fist but applies to all wraps users - there simply aren't many quality wraps that meet the DPS requirements of modern quests when you compare them to THF. Rainbow felt fun aside from DPS extremely high saves and defense made navigating here a breeze. If this were a decade ago there would be a lot of Sacred Fists crushing Vale and heading to Shroud. Why can't the class feel like this all the time?

Just to bring things down a bit and feel how the class plays on a level where more players will be using the Sacred Fist I ran the Lords of Dust chain on R1. No issues. Could easily go toe to toe with Hezrou in Spinner of Shadows, for instance. R1 is dominated by casters though so you're running around to mobs and even with your speed most are AOE dead by the time you get there. OK, not a problem if you are soloing but in a group it has the same problems all melee face, and our AOE attacks seem to be regressing doing less collective damage in relation to mobs HPs than they did 3 or 4 levels ago. We need more melee power in the Sacred Fist tree or the Ki attacks need to scale more of a %.

I'm 20 now and my first ED picks were Grandmaster of Flowers (figure that's the best to test out and where many players will gravitate toward on the Sacred Fist), Shadow Dancer (wanting improved evasion, sneak die for a secondary melee role and DD) and then the third tree I'm considering going Primal and messing around with the spells. For instance, could I use Ki AOEs and Carrion Swarm? Hmm...

[jskinner937]

I tried quicken with incinerating wave, and honestly its slower with active than without. Know I am using daggers and not handwraps so maybe there is a difference there. But if you release and click attack again after triggering, there is virtually no delay. Try that and save yourself a feat, maybe pick up empower healing (I took offhand versatility although bc SWF). Another thign I noted, that the aura isnt exactly a circle around you. It is slightly ahead of you like a cone with only a small part that hits directly behind you. I position myself appropriately and see so much enemies hit than just letting surround you, so the release and click attack is pretty easy tactic to adopt.

I did daggers because handwrap damage on pallies is worse than monk overall. Would suggest 18P/1FVS/1M for a better DPS version and dump handwraps. Go either THF with Kensai or Dagger with Vistani. Just make you pick the right race for your deity. Or alternatively at cap, you could go eilodon and skip kensai altogther as a WF. Too bad BF is broken. I also like the idea of a Mail and going Silvanus, but back to Kensai. I might actually try this one next life.

Also, maybe quick draw has more affect on the pause in animation with the other abilities? Thats what it is for. I know Henshin tree has it. I know you were referring mainly to Ki Explosion, but that ability is sub par and hard to keep up like incinerating wave.

[shawnvw]

I tricked my static group into starting a team of first-life iconics. I'm thinking of taking a Shadar-Kai with Rogue 1/SacredFist 14.

1) How would you change your basic build for this?
2) My favorite part of the Shadar-Kai is the chain attacks, but that requires a light weapon. Can we confirm that the Sacred Fist's handwraps can be used?

[C-Dog]

I tricked my static group into starting a team of first-life iconics.

Well played.

Can we confirm that the Sacred Fist's handwraps can be used?

If by "we" you mean "you", then yes, easily. Iconics start at 15, so roll one up (maybe on an alt server, where you have room?) and see what works, delete when you have your answer, done.

Let us know how it works out!

[shawnvw]

Well played.


If by "we" you mean "you", then yes, easily. Iconics start at 15, so roll one up (maybe on an alt server, where you have room?) and see what works, delete when you have your answer, done.

Let us know how it works out!

I already tried that. And by "tried" I mean that I already have a Shadar-Kai, and looked for handwraps to test with. But for the life of me I couldn't find any at the weapon vendors, at the pawnshop, or on the AH. (Well there was one, but it was 100,000 plat, and I didn't want to experiment that badly) . I was beginning to think that handwraps were rare, even as lootgen.

Today I thought I'd try looking again, and this time I found a lot more on the AH. I bought the cheapest one, checked it out with my SK, and yes, it works fine.

I came back to the forum to delete my question, but you got here first!

[Caarb]

SF was enjoyable enough levelling through heroics. It has issues in epics especially at endgame though. Some thoughts - beware unfiltered brain dump inc:

SD needs updating with multiselectors so that they work better with SF - too much is geared towards heavy armor/shields - please split stance into 2 versions 1 with threat baked in and one without
Ki attacks are reduced by EDF (these attacks are in melee trees really need to be exempted from the EDF range penalty)
Only 1 tree for endgame dps builds - RS is utility, SD is not viable for anything other than solo play due to threat increase on stance (dragon flipping) which means heavy reliance on Vistani or Falconry. SF needs to be stronger to offset lack of dps in supporting trees eg Kensai/KoTC.
No Trance - I would exchange Cha to hit and damage for Divine might if I could - no trance likely means 18/1/1 splits will be optimal
18/20 Cores are weak so splashes are likely to be common
Weak ED support -GoMF needs to stop being the monk tree and start being the centered tree - needs to autogrant things it enhances eg fist of light/dark (eg shadowdancer grants evasion and improves it if you already have it, same with fvs wings) - no synergy with DC/sunder
GoMF strike needs to be improved for handwraps
T5 is weak
Exalted smite is too expensive
I would like the KI abilities to be autogranted (this is what separates SF from paladins i would lean into this more)
Consider adding swords to plowshares as an Enhancement option - analogous to Knights Training in KoTC

[Mithrielwielder]

Can sacred fist wear armor instead of clothing? What is the penalty assuming you have proficiency?

[C-Dog]

Can sacred fist wear armor instead of clothing? What is the penalty assuming you have proficiency?

Main thing is you become uncentered, which negates many Monk-like abilities. Many SF abilities specifically state "If unarmored...".

But, by and large, you don't need to wear armor. SF's (and Monks) get an AC bonus if unarmored, and (at Level 6) SF's can use Sacred Defender armor bonuses as if they were armored.


Bottom line, you can't wear armor and still be a "monk" of any stripe. If you're considering a SF dip instead of Pali, it will get you Evasion, as well as the usual Saving Throw bonus etc. (and I don't ~think~ you lose anything vs. regular Pali?).