Found a 3rd player benefiting feature of update 56, this one I am sharing

[dogsoldier]

If you create a new character, select say regular bard + stormsinger, then swap over to Tiefling Scoundrel, your Iconic will remember that you selected stormsinger in the regular bard setup, and will be of the Stormsinger variety, so you can test it out at 15. If you just select Iconic, Tiefling Scoundrel, it does not give you an option for selecting stormsinger. The same thing works for Bladeforged Sacred Fist. I did not test Sun Elf Dark Apostate because I ran out of character slots.

So this could save some people the hassle of a lesser heart of wood, and could open up options for people that already have 3x Paladin, Cleric, and Bard lives, but not their respective Iconics.

I am not certain that the Bladeforged Sacred Fist would be that good if you go Wraps/TWF, since it starts -2 DEX, but you could probably make it work with tomes, or try using a Greatsword instead or something.

[misterski]

If you create a new character, select say regular bard + stormsinger, then swap over to Tiefling Scoundrel, your Iconic will remember that you selected stormsinger in the regular bard setup, and will be of the Stormsinger variety, so you can test it out at 15. If you just select Iconic, Tiefling Scoundrel, it does not give you an option for selecting stormsinger. The same thing works for Bladeforged Sacred Fist. I did not test Sun Elf Dark Apostate because I ran out of character slots.

So this could save some people the hassle of a lesser heart of wood, and could open up options for people that already have 3x Paladin, Cleric, and Bard lives, but not their respective Iconics.

I am not certain that the Bladeforged Sacred Fist would be that good if you go Wraps/TWF, since it starts -2 DEX, but you could probably make it work with tomes, or try using a Greatsword instead or something.

Neat little trick, wonder if it's WAI, though.

Using a greatsword as a Sacred Fist would be pointless. The Sacred Flame damage toggle only works while centered which means only monk weapons can be used. Quarterstaff would work though since they are monk weapons and you also can make it a favored weapon if you splash one level of cleric or fvs.

[dogsoldier]

Neat little trick, wonder if it's WAI, though.

Using a greatsword as a Sacred Fist would be pointless. The Sacred Flame damage toggle only works while centered which means only monk weapons can be used. Quarterstaff would work though since they are monk weapons and you also can make it a favored weapon if you splash one level of cleric or fvs.

Yeah, I am not sure whether it is WAI, but to take away the feature they would have to actively discourage people from playing with the new Archetypes, which they are not likely to do.

I hadn't really looked that seriously at Sacred Fist, but somehow I thought you could be centered with any favored weapon, and Bladeforged favored weapon is Greatsword.

Could be I was thinking of a Fighter splash opening up centered with the selected specialty weapons. And then there is T3 Vistani to allow centered with Daggers. Paladin is skill starved, but could potentially qualify for the SWF stuff instead with balance, and rely on CHA for saves, dumping DEX. SWF would open up offhand if you wanted to get into some kind of hybrid setup, not sure whether the spells from Sacred Fist would really do much, but certainly there are some options in epic destinies that could be fun.

[misterski]

Yeah, I am not sure whether it is WAI, but to take away the feature they would have to actively discourage people from playing with the new Archetypes, which they are not likely to do.

I hadn't really looked that seriously at Sacred Fist, but somehow I thought you could be centered with any favored weapon, and Bladeforged favored weapon is Greatsword.

Could be I was thinking of a Fighter splash opening up centered with the selected specialty weapons. And then there is T3 Vistani to allow centered with Daggers. Paladin is skill starved, but could potentially qualify for the SWF stuff instead with balance, and rely on CHA for saves, dumping DEX. SWF would open up offhand if you wanted to get into some kind of hybrid setup, not sure whether the spells from Sacred Fist would really do much, but certainly there are some options in epic destinies that could be fun.

Yeah 5 levels of fighter gets you access to that T5 kensei enhancement. Sacred Fist can also go for short swords via drow fvs/cleric splash and splash monk for ninja core 1. Or longsword via cleric/fvs splash and the WSS feat. Longsword would probably need a fighter splash since WSS requires weapon focus slashing and paladins already don't have a lot of feat slots to work with.

[jskinner937]

Neat little trick, wonder if it's WAI, though.

Using a greatsword as a Sacred Fist would be pointless. The Sacred Flame damage toggle only works while centered which means only monk weapons can be used. Quarterstaff would work though since they are monk weapons and you also can make it a favored weapon if you splash one level of cleric or fvs.

You realize that Kensai can make any weapons li weapons right? And also things like flame blades (which suck) and shadow blades are also ki weapons.

[misterski]

You realize that Kensai can make any weapons li weapons right? And also things like flame blades (which suck) and shadow blades are also ki weapons.

Which I acknowledge in my 2nd post.

[Mindos]

things like flame blades (which suck) and shadow blades are also ki weapons.

Why do you say this? Do you think just flame blades or both flame blades and shadow blades "suck"? What would make it better?

[misterski]

Fire resistant/immune mobs are more common at the higher levels. Or worse, heal from fire damage. Shadowblades have the advantage here.

[dogsoldier]

Or Daggers! And then can use the nice ones from Sharn, I grabbed Moonslice on the Bladeforged Sacred Fist.

It sets up much better for first life without tomes as SWF, less Multiple Attribute Dependent. Mainly need CHA and CON, a little INT for skills, a little WIS for spell points and casting stuff. I went with SWF, Magical Training, Improved SWF, Imp Critical Piercing, Greater SWF, Offhand Verstility. For Skills, I maxed Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal, and Balance (cross class, so can just take half ranks). Precision would be better probably, but I had envisioned hybrid stuff in epics and didn't have the DEX to qualify for it. I might take Maximize at level 18, so I can maximize epic SLA/Strikes, if I keep playing around with it.

Two problems with it that I found so far: The offhand thing doesn't really work with Orbs (cannot be centered), so nothing offhand is the only option, but the versatility boosts stat to DMG, was just hoping to be able to swap from mainly melee, to more hybrid with an Orb. Also, it is extremely spell slot constrained. Sacred Fist gets more offensive spells than regular bard does, but doesn't really have the spell slots to make the most use of them.

[misterski]

Or Daggers! And then can use the nice ones from Sharn, I grabbed Moonslice on the Bladeforged Sacred Fist.

It sets up much better for first life without tomes as SWF, less Multiple Attribute Dependent. Mainly need CHA and CON, a little INT for skills, a little WIS for spell points and casting stuff. I went with SWF, Magical Training, Improved SWF, Imp Critical Piercing, Greater SWF, Offhand Verstility. For Skills, I maxed Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal, and Balance (cross class, so can just take half ranks). Precision would be better probably, but I had envisioned hybrid stuff in epics and didn't have the DEX to qualify for it. I might take Maximize at level 18, so I can maximize epic SLA/Strikes, if I keep playing around with it.

Two problems with it that I found so far: The offhand thing doesn't really work with Orbs (cannot be centered), so nothing offhand is the only option, but the versatility boosts stat to DMG, was just hoping to be able to swap from mainly melee, to more hybrid with an Orb. Also, it is extremely spell slot constrained. Sacred Fist gets more offensive spells than regular bard does, but doesn't really have the spell slots to make the most use of them.

The Sacred Flame SLA/Stirkes scale off of melee power not spell power.

[dogsoldier]

The Sacred Flame SLA/Stirkes scale off of melee power not spell power.

Well, yeah, I figured so much, but I was thinking more for things like, using the Resplendent Fury or Stygian Wrath Orbs for proc'ing temp spell points. Paladin does not get that many SP, so something like that would be able to take more advantage of Epic Destiny Strikes/SLAs.

[Memnir]

I'm not sure this is a WAI thing.
When I tried this on a Tiefling, it wouldn't let me level up in the jail. Kept telling me "Subclass error, report this bug". However, I logged out and went to the Eberron Hall of Heroes and the game let me level up just fine in the Marketplace. So, I'm glad that this works for now - but I wonder how long it will last. I don't see why it shouldn't last, imho - I think they should be added to the Iconics, and if they can't be due to some issue under the hood of the game engine, I would hope SSG just turns a blind eye to it and just let the workaround stay.

[dogsoldier]

I'm not sure this is a WAI thing.
When I tried this on a Tiefling, it wouldn't let me level up in the jail. Kept telling me "Subclass error, report this bug". However, I logged out and went to the Eberron Hall of Heroes and the game let me level up just fine in the Marketplace. So, I'm glad that this works for now - but I wonder how long it will last. I don't see why it shouldn't last, imho - I think they should be added to the Iconics, and if they can't be due to some issue under the hood of the game engine, I would hope SSG just turns a blind eye to it and just let the workaround stay.

Well, you could always just refuse the training from the start. Its not like the original default path was any good to begin with, is way out of date by now, and certainly not setup with choices that would be sensible for the new Archetypes anyway.

[LightBear]

Do sacred fist have/get monk stances?

[dogsoldier]

Do sacred fist have/get monk stances?

Not without taking a level of Monk, if you wanted that, may as well take a Cleric or Favored Soul level too, so you can pickup a CHA trance.

[PNP]

If you create a new character, select say regular bard + stormsinger, then swap over to Tiefling Scoundrel, your Iconic will remember that you selected stormsinger in the regular bard setup, and will be of the Stormsinger variety, so you can test it out at 15. If you just select Iconic, Tiefling Scoundrel, it does not give you an option for selecting stormsinger. The same thing works for Bladeforged Sacred Fist. I did not test Sun Elf Dark Apostate because I ran out of character slots.

So this could save some people the hassle of a lesser heart of wood, and could open up options for people that already have 3x Paladin, Cleric, and Bard lives, but not their respective Iconics.

I am not certain that the Bladeforged Sacred Fist would be that good if you go Wraps/TWF, since it starts -2 DEX, but you could probably make it work with tomes, or try using a Greatsword instead or something.

did not work for me... tried twice and nothing.... sad panda

I guess I will do iconic regular bard to 30, ETR into stormsinger, that should work and WAI since LR work....

Was so excited....

[dogsoldier]

did not work for me... tried twice and nothing.... sad panda

I guess I will do iconic regular bard to 30, ETR into stormsinger, that should work and WAI since LR work....

Was so excited....

Well, one tip on whether or not it is going to work for stormsinger, is whether or not you get the spell selection of Shocking Grasp, if not, you are not going to be a stormsinger.

[dogsoldier]

I deleted my stormsinger, and tried again to make sure, it worked fine for me. I selected regular bard, then selected stormsinger to the right of it, then clicked on Iconics, then Tiefling Scoundrel, and it let me setup, I took Shocking Grasp as the first spell.

Edit: And of course, as with all Iconics, always refuse the training and go to a regular trainer for levels 2+

[Xharath]

Neat little trick, wonder if it's WAI, though.

Using a greatsword as a Sacred Fist would be pointless. The Sacred Flame damage toggle only works while centered which means only monk weapons can be used. Quarterstaff would work though since they are monk weapons and you also can make it a favored weapon if you splash one level of cleric or fvs.

You could enter a couple of levels of fighter in it for the kensaii bonus feat and be centered with a greatsword,(its great fun to play btw) although i dont know what the benifits of the architype would be. you could just build it becouse you can.

[PNP]

I deleted my stormsinger, and tried again to make sure, it worked fine for me. I selected regular bard, then selected stormsinger to the right of it, then clicked on Iconics, then Tiefling Scoundrel, and it let me setup, I took Shocking Grasp as the first spell.

Edit: And of course, as with all Iconics, always refuse the training and go to a regular trainer for levels 2+

It worked, i hadn't had my coffee when I tried and that is going to my excuse... Was too simple, i had to make it more complex. Going to test on my main.

edit: tried on an alt first and no problem. for now....