Found a 3rd player benefiting feature of update 56, this one I am sharing

[Theolin]

From goofing around tonight , I found out something interesting.. So we know you can pick an archtype and go back and pick Iconic like OP said. I tried making a Bladeforge Sacred Fist first 6 levels, then multi class to cleric dark apostate 5 levels... I thought maybe the bladeforge self heal communion of scribing from racial tree.. but you cant use it on yourself if you have shadow shrouding on. Lay of hands works in shadow form.. The biggest issue I found was, if you start as a Bladeforge, you do NOT get Follower of the Path of Light which makes handwraps favored at level 1 .

What was really weird is when I started taking the cleric levels, the deity of bladeforge popped up there and I had to take it for deity pick. The other issue is, not only are you not favored with handwraps as a bladeforge, you also wont get the proficiency. , but when you hit level 6 pally , you do get the divine dream but the requires follower of path of light is red as requirement.

So really no way to make the bladeforge pally work because you dont get Follower of the path of light... So instead I made a Sun Cleric Dark Apostate, then I took multi class to pally, and my first level gave me follow of the path of light.. which is pretty neat because Apostates curse is allowing me to do evil damage with my handwraps while sacred first is allowing me to do fire damage.

But anyway, just goofing around with it,, also dont know if this is already something you can do, but in divine disciple tree I can take emmisary of the light and the dark together.. is that always been like that? first core and last core.. but they both are level 1 cleric requirement.

here is a screenshot of divine disciple light and dark taken.. never took core at both ends before.
https://imgur.com/a/3bnS3of

I think this happens (did on lama) if you take Cleric or Favored Soul and pick a deity and then multiclass and pick sacred fist you keep your original deity and do not get the sacred fist one.

[cmecu]

I would be curious if this is NOT WAI, and people are already Iconic Archtypes like I did above, then how would they remedy that? Can they manually change your character? Or put a +20 heart of wood in your bag and make you change your classes? I dunno..

[misterski]

I think this happens (did on lama) if you take Cleric or Favored Soul and pick a deity and then multiclass and pick sacred fist you keep your original deity and do not get the sacred fist one.

This is because of his being a Bladeforged. Bladeforged are forced to take Lord of Blades as a deity no matter what divine class they choose. Guess it takes precedence over the Path of Light deity that Sacred Fists are forced to choose at level 1.

Edit: I just tested this out by starting a veteran character as a cleric and then taking Sacred Fist as my remaining levels. I ended up having both deities. So this is definitely only a problem with Bladeforged due to the aforementioned issue.

[SEMPER]

From goofing around tonight , I found out something interesting.. So we know you can pick an archtype and go back and pick Iconic like OP said. I tried making a Bladeforge Sacred Fist first 6 levels, then multi class to cleric dark apostate 5 levels... I thought maybe the bladeforge self heal communion of scribing from racial tree.. but you cant use it on yourself if you have shadow shrouding on. Lay of hands works in shadow form.. The biggest issue I found was, if you start as a Bladeforge, you do NOT get Follower of the Path of Light which makes handwraps favored at level 1 .

What was really weird is when I started taking the cleric levels, the deity of bladeforge popped up there and I had to take it for deity pick. The other issue is, not only are you not favored with handwraps as a bladeforge, you also wont get the proficiency. , but when you hit level 6 pally , you do get the divine dream but the requires follower of path of light is red as requirement.

So really no way to make the bladeforge pally work because you dont get Follower of the path of light... So instead I made a Sun Cleric Dark Apostate, then I took multi class to pally, and my first level gave me follow of the path of light.. which is pretty neat because Apostates curse is allowing me to do evil damage with my handwraps while sacred first is allowing me to do fire damage.

But anyway, just goofing around with it,, also dont know if this is already something you can do, but in divine disciple tree I can take emmisary of the light and the dark together.. is that always been like that? first core and last core.. but they both are level 1 cleric requirement.

here is a screenshot of divine disciple light and dark taken.. never took core at both ends before.
https://imgur.com/a/3bnS3of

If you look at the cleric enhancement cores you can take from both sides to a certain point , but if you want the capstone you go from left to right for Light until the Capstone , then Right to left for Dark for that Capstone. Not sure if its WAI but you have to take light and dark to get the crit chance for fire which messes up the capstone at the end.

[Katalissa]

Well that didn't last very long! ... and this is why we can't have nice things...

[misterski]

Well that didn't last very long! ... and this is why we can't have nice things...

You'll still be able to do it with an LR after the hotfix, just not at character creation.

[dogsoldier]

You'll still be able to do it with an LR after the hotfix, just not at character creation.

2685 DDO Points to run 3x of a new Archetype. What was that they said about "These archetypes are free!"

[misterski]

2685 DDO Points to run 3x of a new Archetype. What was that they said about "These archetypes are free!"

You get a free LR heart at character creation...

[dogsoldier]

You get a free LR heart at character creation...

Do you also get a free one for every time you TR your main character? Spoiler: you don't

[misterski]

Do you also get a free one for every time you TR your main character? Spoiler: you don't

Lesser hearts of wood can also rarely drop unbound. Which means you may find them on the auctioneer for AS or plat.

[dogsoldier]

Also I am sure that everyone that wants to run an Iconic Archetype is totally looking forward to:

- Leveling it up to 15
- Lesser Reincarnating
- Leveling it back up to 15
- Leveling from 15-30 or 32
- Epic Reincarnating back to 20
- Leveling Back to 20
- Leveling Back to 32
- Iconic TR'ing

Never mind the TR cache clearing, which requires a legion of mules because shared bank space is so constrained versus the items that are in the game, compounded by each of your Characters needing to keep a separate set of Minor Articfacts that you may or may not use some day, cannot even mule those.

[Steeme]

Also I am sure that everyone that wants to run an Iconic Archetype is totally looking forward to:

- Leveling it up to 15
- Lesser Reincarnating
- Leveling it back up to 15
- Leveling from 15-30 or 32
- Epic Reincarnating back to 20
- Leveling Back to 20
- Leveling Back to 32
- Iconic TR'ing

Never mind the TR cache clearing, which requires a legion of mules because shared bank space is so constrained versus the items that are in the game, compounded by each of your Characters needing to keep a separate set of Minor Articfacts that you may or may not use some day, cannot even mule those.

If you're going to take an epic life in that path, you can simplify it:

- Leveling it up to 15 as the normal class
- Leveling from 15-30 or 32
- Epic Reincarnating back to 20
- Leveling Back to 20 as the archetype
- Leveling Back to 32
- Iconic TR'ing and earning the Iconic + Archetype past lives


You certainly do have an argument for players that have finished all Epic lives already but are looking for 3 x Archetype. They either have to choose non-Iconic and go 1-20 (or 30 for first-time Rxp) or choose Iconic and use an LR heart.

[Anthorin1]

56.0.2:

"We have removed the ability to create a character that is both an Iconic and an Archetype through an unintended method during initial character generation."

I presume that will prevent this?

[Archfae]

56.0.2:

"We have removed the ability to create a character that is both an Iconic and an Archetype through an unintended method during initial character generation."

I presume that will prevent this?

And this is why players are upset with the devs and say they do not care about their playerbase.

There are still a number of gameplay bugs from U51 that have yet to be patched. There are also countless content based bugs that have been in the game and reported in some cases for literally half a decade.

Beyond that, U56 still has a ton of bugs.

But no, let's spend some time blocking a feature because it is a slight benefit to some small subset of players.

What you choose to prioritize when it comes to hotfixes like this shows whether you want to have an antagonistic relationship with players or one based on mutual respect and love for the game.

[misterski]

And this is why players are upset with the devs and say they do not care about their playerbase.

There are still a number of gameplay bugs from U51 that have yet to be patched. There are also countless content based bugs that have been in the game and reported in some cases for literally half a decade.

Beyond that, U56 still has a ton of bugs.

But no, let's spend some time blocking a feature because it is a slight benefit to some small subset of players.

What you choose to prioritize when it comes to hotfixes like this shows whether you want to have an antagonistic relationship with players or one based on mutual respect and love for the game.

THey did it because it was a quick fix that could be included in this hotfix not because they were prioritizing this particular fix over others. Have you ever been asked for "quick wins" from your boss to meet a deadline?

[ahpook]

THey did it because it was a quick fix that could be included in this hotfix not because they were prioritizing this particular fix over others. Have you ever been asked for "quick wins" from your boss to meet a deadline?

You are likely correct. But to make it a quick win they should have budgeted an extra 2 minutes for a dev to come in on page 1 and say "Please don't do this. It causes problems with the character that we may be unable to resolve and we will be fixing this loophole as soon as feasible". Still would have been a quick win even with the extra 2 minutes. Steelstar's note in the downtime thread covers it well although re-actively instead proactively.

[Ordinary]

And this is why players are upset with the devs and say they do not care about their playerbase.

There are still a number of gameplay bugs from U51 that have yet to be patched. There are also countless content based bugs that have been in the game and reported in some cases for literally half a decade.

Beyond that, U56 still has a ton of bugs.

But no, let's spend some time blocking a feature because it is a slight benefit to some small subset of players.

What you choose to prioritize when it comes to hotfixes like this shows whether you want to have an antagonistic relationship with players or one based on mutual respect and love for the game.

Its not just a "stop the players doing stuff" its stopping people from making broken characters. See the earlier posts about the Bladeforged Sacred Fists missing the level 1 Deity feat.

Personally I think they should have made the Archetype selectable for iconics and made sure it levels correctly. But software is hard. There are so many combination and fringe cases especially in a code base that is many years old and has had so many developers over the years. I can understand their reasoning, I just don't have to agree.

[Vellrad]

Its not just a "stop the players doing stuff" its stopping people from making broken characters. See the earlier posts about the Bladeforged Sacred Fists missing the level 1 Deity feat.

Personally I think they should have made the Archetype selectable for iconics and made sure it levels correctly. But software is hard. There are so many combination and fringe cases especially in a code base that is many years old and has had so many developers over the years. I can understand their reasoning, I just don't have to agree.

I see it as a tradeoff: I give 1 feat, I receive 15 levels.

Seriously though, iconics should choose base class, archetype or refuse XP to start at any class.

[misterski]

Its not just a "stop the players doing stuff" its stopping people from making broken characters. See the earlier posts about the Bladeforged Sacred Fists missing the level 1 Deity feat.

Personally I think they should have made the Archetype selectable for iconics and made sure it levels correctly. But software is hard. There are so many combination and fringe cases especially in a code base that is many years old and has had so many developers over the years. I can understand their reasoning, I just don't have to agree.

Whether you used the broken method at character creation or use the approved LR method (tested this), you still end up missing the level 1 Path of Light deity feat as a Bladeforged Sacred Fist. You can still choose Lord of Blades at level 3 or later, however. You're also still autogranted the level 6 Path of Light Deity feat. This is a result of Bladeforged being forced to choose Lord of Blades as a deity coming into conflict with level 1 Sacred Fists being autogranted the Path of Light deity at level 1. Not sure they can fix this without reworking how Bladeforged work. For other races, you can safely have more than one deity by multiclassing into additional divine classes.

Edit: Morninglords have no problems with multiclassing into Sacred Fist. But they may have the same problem as Bladeforged if they use an +1 LR to switch their base class to Sacred Fist.