SSG's policy towards the community

[FengXian]

Did I miss some kind of apology for these issues, or taking any kind of responsibility openly and explicitly just isn't SSG's policy?

I ask because I find a much more humble approach in some other companies (admittedly, mostly japanese ones), with generous compensations and profuse apologies for WAY, WAY smaller issues than these.

Would be nice to see something of the sort here, but maybe it's just me (or I simply missed them in which case I'm the one to be sorry and nevermind).

I'll say that I appreciate the relatively quick and relatively effective fixes the devs have put into place after U56 and after the HCL hounds' bugs, and I'm not blaming the devs directly for any of these issues (spaghetti code etc., etc., I can imagine it's difficult).

However the devs are one thing are the company is another. Someone IS to blame, and writing a few lines to acknowledge it would be a nice gesture towards one of the most loyal and persistent playerbases ever.

Just M2C.

[ahpook]

Did I miss some kind of apology for these issues, or taking any kind of responsibility openly and explicitly just isn't SSG's policy?

I ask because I find a much more humble approach in some other companies (admittedly, mostly japanese ones), with generous compensations and profuse apologies for WAY, WAY smaller issues than these.

Would be nice to see something of the sort here, but maybe it's just me (or I simply missed them in which case I'm the one to be sorry and nevermind).

I'll say that I appreciate the relatively quick and relatively effective fixes the devs have put into place after U56 and after the HCL hounds' bugs, and I'm not blaming the devs directly for any of these issues (spaghetti code etc., etc., I can imagine it's difficult).

However the devs are one thing are the company is another. Someone IS to blame, and writing a few lines to acknowledge it would be a nice gesture towards one of the most loyal and persistent playerbases ever.

Just M2C.

Based on recent history, I don't think that kind of communication is likely. I don't actually need an apology but I would like to see an improvement in their performance that indicates that they want to do better. Based on the recent track record that also doesn't seem likely as releases seem to be getting more rushed and less stable.

[voxson5]

https://hbr.org/2011/04/strategies-f...g-from-failure

Not a bad read

[Stormraiser]

Based on recent history, I don't think that kind of communication is likely. I don't actually need an apology but I would like to see an improvement in their performance that indicates that they want to do better. Based on the recent track record that also doesn't seem likely as releases seem to be getting more rushed and less stable.

+ Tolero

Tolero, would you be so kind as to opine on what happened?

Specifically, why the change to sonic blast? There was uniform feedback that this was an extremely unwelcome change. This spell has been an iconic spell for bards.

Why couldn't the Aasimar LOH nerf have been postponed until after HCL was over? Same for the cleric/fvs nerfs. Balance changes are very valid, but implementing them in a time sensitive matter is also important.

Where was the breakdown in testing where certain bugs were detailed for for the archetypes, specifically when someone pointed out that leveling one class gives you a level of another class? This was spelled out as a bug on Lam.

What happened with the TR process? What about the loading screen?

[HailBlazR]

They've never apologized for stuff like this in the past. So I wouldn't expect them to start doing so now. At best, we get hotfixes on the day after, fixing issues which were known on Lamma, but ignored completely by SSG. (Granted, things weren't perfect during the Turbine years, but they seemed better at least, I dunno.)

It's funny because SSG actually have people who work for them as "Community Managers" or something to that effect, and yet time and time again, SSG have repeatedly failed to interface with us and cultivate a feeling of good will. A little communication would go a long way, yet SSG routinely fails to give us... well, anything really. They don't respond to feedback. They don't listen to feedback. What more is there to be said?

I used to spend money on this game, many years ago, and would actually go back to spending some money on DDO occasionally if I saw any changes. But time and time again, SSG have displayed 1) a complete disregard towards their customers, 2) an unwillingness to communicate with their customers, and 3) an inability to apologize for any wrongdoing, even if myriad evidence is presented to prove they were in the wrong. It's a proven track record and unfortunately, it's not going to change. Ever.

It's sad, but I can at least play for free and still enjoy the game occasionally. But at this point, if SSG were to (deservedly) go belly-up, I'm not sure I would care too much.

Specifically, why the change to sonic blast? There was uniform feedback that this was an extremely unwelcome change.

Feedback doesn't matter to them. And I wish I had your same idealism, in hoping that Tolero or a developer would ever respond to a thread like this. But without fail, every single time they're presented with criticism, SSG clams up and either ignores or dismisses us. They're never going to address the massive elephant in the room which was the Sonic Blast nerf, even though the entire playerbase universally agrees it was an awful change.

[Cordovan]

We apologize for any issues caused this week, and we have been working diligently on fixes. Some went out today, while others are still in-process and will be released as soon as possible.

[ahpook]

We apologize for any issues caused this week, and we have been working diligently on fixes. Some went out today, while others are still in-process and will be released as soon as possible.

No insult intended to you Cordovan but this is not actually an apology. It is is dismiss-able boiler plate text. You are apologizing for the results and not SSG's actions. This is more in line with saying "I am sorry your feelings were hurt" vs "I am sorry I called you a moron. It was entirely inappropriate". The latter indicates that one cares about what they actually did while the former is not taking any ownership over the source of the problem and sharing the problem with the person being apologized to (it is your feelings that are part of the problem).

Thanks for trying though. (that is not sarcasm). Somehow, despite your job description, I don't think it is your apology to give as I doubt it was your actions that caused the results you apologize for.

[FengXian]

We apologize for any issues caused this week, and we have been working diligently on fixes. Some went out today, while others are still in-process and will be released as soon as possible.

I appreciate this a lot, and yes I can imagine you're working very hard.

I'm pretty sure devs and players can really get along in this game, we just need to communicate better. For example even if you can't follow up on llama feedback just let the testers know you have a release schedule or something and you're not just ignoring them.

Ofc players could figure this out by themselves but seeing the actual statement goes a long way, same as in this case. Nobody's asking the devs to take the blame, we know. Just show us some love :P

[Assassination]

We apologize for any issues caused this week, and we have been working diligently on fixes. Some went out today, while others are still in-process and will be released as soon as possible.

So heart felt I just discontinued my VIP subscription. Really disappointed in this company. They've been on a 2 year slide, will be interesting to see how much farther down they can go. Good Luck SSG.

[Justicesar]

Toxic as all get out forums, even the slightest most brief "We are sorry gets jumped on".....anything deeper and more meaningful than that is just more fuel for the fire. " Your sorry blablah blah....I don't don't think your really sorry...in your face Devs" is the norm and so high school. Stuff happens, it will be fixed, move along.

[Iyllelia]

We apologize for any issues caused this week, and we have been working diligently on fixes. Some went out today, while others are still in-process and will be released as soon as possible.

Cordovan, I know you're the messenger, but, please, no more apologies (words). Instead, we want to be treated like we're respected and valued (actions).

I'm under no illusions; this is a product and a business. I know that factors into decisions. But we're still the customers here. And we're giving you our money. As with any business, you can't take people's money and then change what they paid for on a whim, mid-whatever-they-paid-for.

With the recent changes? To make then in the middle of an event like Hardcore is just a total d*ck move. (This isn't Mabar or party favor season.) And especially with no compensation. It's some combination of sadism and business ineptitude.

We don't want archetypes that don't work, we want loading screens that don't take 5 minutes (or any of the other long list of bugs we customers have to deal with every time we play).

Also, people play hardcore in different ways that fit their lifestyle and schedule. Some have dedicated groups, others prefer (or resort to) PUGs, and others like to solo. Based on the hundreds of quests at various levels I've played this season, the hounds make soloing near impossible for many people. Certainly for the inexperienced player. So, groups aren't just a preference but a near necessity. Are you aware that it can be very difficult to get a group together at times? Especially as you progress in level? And even more so if you would like to run reaper?

But you want to make changes that make the event you created to be more difficult than it already is? Couldn't you at least wait until the season is done? Or at least do fewer changes? Like just one? Do you have to do like 5 or 6 at once?

For classes people enjoy playing, you decided to nerf offensive capacity. And support capacity. With Aasimar, which is one of my favorites in general, is also a good choice on HC if you like helping people live. Like, you know, how groups work together to survive. Well, now I've just lost half my hands and you can be sure that I'm not going to be able to help as many people now.

Who is at the helm of these decisions? It should be someone who actually plays the game and wants to retain customers. Because I can't believe that is the person in charge right now.

[DRoark]

I'm sure sometime, they'll get around to vaguely saying something mediocre.

They pretty much set the gold standard in minimal testing. There's still issues with things from a DECADE ago that haven't been fixed,
but cranking out untested content and then spaghetti-patching everything is the new normal. It's gotten progressively worse.

---------------------------------------------

[Mofus]

We apologize for any issues caused this week, and we have been working diligently on fixes. Some went out today, while others are still in-process and will be released as soon as possible.

Thank you, will be waiting for resolutions before logging in again.

[Question2005]

Did I miss some kind of apology for these issues, or taking any kind of responsibility openly and explicitly just isn't SSG's policy?

I ask because I find a much more humble approach in some other companies (admittedly, mostly japanese ones), with generous compensations and profuse apologies for WAY, WAY smaller issues than these.

Would be nice to see something of the sort here, but maybe it's just me (or I simply missed them in which case I'm the one to be sorry and nevermind).

I'll say that I appreciate the relatively quick and relatively effective fixes the devs have put into place after U56 and after the HCL hounds' bugs, and I'm not blaming the devs directly for any of these issues (spaghetti code etc., etc., I can imagine it's difficult).

However the devs are one thing are the company is another. Someone IS to blame, and writing a few lines to acknowledge it would be a nice gesture towards one of the most loyal and persistent playerbases ever.

Just M2C.

I think theres a huge culture difference between west and east. Western companies generally hate apologizing or giving compensation for anything. Eastern companies are generally quick to apologize and give compensation.

For example, look at all those big Asian mobile games, they apologize and give a small compensation for scheduled maintenance. If there is a big screw up, they do things like give full refunds. No western company that i have heard of does anything remotely close.

Heck, everyone has heard horror stories of people losing stuff during TRs and then being ignored/stone walled by customer support.

This patch broke a lot of people's builds due to massive nerfs to favored souls and sonic blast, especially problematic for people on hardcore who are now stuck with builds that cant reach their goals. The least SSG could do would be to give free hearts to let people respec...

But they havent even acknowledged breaking people's builds, let alone compensating anyone...

[lion_mouse]

Cordovan, I know you're the messenger, but, please, no more apologies (words). Instead, we want to be treated like we're respected and valued (actions).

I'm under no illusions; this is a product and a business. I know that factors into decisions. But we're still the customers here. And we're giving you our money. As with any business, you can't take people's money and then change what they paid for on a whim, mid-whatever-they-paid-for.

With the recent changes? To make then in the middle of an event like Hardcore is just a total d*ck move. (This isn't Mabar or party favor season.) And especially with no compensation. It's some combination of sadism and business ineptitude.

Officially on the table,
Clerics/Wizard/Sorcs/FS/Warlocks/Druids/Rangers/Paladins etc will have to buy with feats the ability to cast spells
Dragonborn will loose their breathweapon
Rangers melee feats - will no longer be free
Rogues will have to purchase with feats the ability to trap/untrap
Halflings will get 2 inches in height thus loosing their saving/ac bonus against Giants
Lolth has become disallusioned with Drow so they they loose any connection to her - unless they pay for it.

etc etc

[Seph1roth5]

Apologies are pointless unless you also change what caused you to apologize. Sorry to all my neighbors for blaring my music at 2am! Am I going to stop? Nah, but I'll apologize every morning!

[adamkatt]

So heart felt I just discontinued my VIP subscription. Really disappointed in this company. They've been on a 2 year slide, will be interesting to see how much farther down they can go. Good Luck SSG.

Tc and Gl, ty for the grp! :P

[Bjond]

Did I miss some kind of apology

We apologize for any issues

I once had an interviewer ask me "what could I do to thank you for a favor?" I laughed, then thought and answered along these lines: "Hmmm. If the favor was for you (a person), thanks or (if big) lunch is plenty. If it's a favor for the company, bonus or raise. If money is not involved, the company is not speaking."

The same applies here. If SSG wants to say something, it has to "use it's words" (aka money) .. offer TR+20 Hearts for borked chars, 1k astral shards per lost quest item, 1250 runes per lost raid item, etc., etc. .. for anyone impacted.

BTW, my builds weren't impacted by any of the changes, but the banks are so screwed up that I can't tell if I lost items or not.

[blarhblarhblarh]

Since update 50 and 51 I don´t believe they want to have a community. Because of the silver longbow. An item that didn´t needed a nerf, that was on the game since year 1 and they did it anyway out of ????

Can´t find a reason. Same as the ravenloft belt - they could have nerfed spell damage in another ways instead they decided to destroy items that the players PAID for in an expansion.

Maybe DDO jumped the shark on update 51 and I keep on wishing they will solve sharn, feywild and saltmarsh quests and other big but list before launching anything new to the game. Quality of life changes is what DDO need to survive the years to come, not a shifter or a tabaxi, new EDs who didn´t added any fun to the game and limited the builds, 2 extra levels that want to build the game vertically but in many ways just annoys and destroy what we have as an endgame now. And the list goes on and on.

See the players with reincarnation bug? I spend over an YEAR begging for them to make a policy to solve it faster using social networks and cellphones. They didn´t. So far they lost a ton of players due to it and yet they rather do nich archetypes instead of fixing the core of the game like lag or chat issues in thelanis.

But bank changes are nice and something we needed. We just need patience to see it working properly.

[thegreatcthulhu]

I once had an interviewer ask me "what could I do to thank you for a favor?" I laughed, then thought and answered along these lines: "Hmmm. If the favor was for you (a person), thanks or (if big) lunch is plenty. If it's a favor for the company, bonus or raise. If money is not involved, the company is not speaking."

The same applies here. If SSG wants to say something, it has to "use it's words" (aka money) .. offer TR+20 Hearts for borked chars, 1k astral shards per lost quest item, 1250 runes per lost raid item, etc., etc. .. for anyone impacted.

BTW, my builds weren't impacted by any of the changes, but the banks are so screwed up that I can't tell if I lost items or not.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head here. Actions speak louder than words. Even if they were to take the route of issuing a thorough explanation of the "Who, What, Where, When, Why, How" and "Plans to Get Better", and actually adhere to any said plans, I imagine it would slow things down on there end. And slowing down development to improve quality, is of course, going to cost them something.

I think Cordovan is being sincere though, and I am glad he took the moment to write up what he gave us.

Since update 50 and 51 I don´t believe they want to have a community. Because of the silver longbow. An item that didn´t needed a nerf, that was on the game since year 1 and they did it anyway out of ????

Can´t find a reason. Same as the ravenloft belt - they could have nerfed spell damage in another ways instead they decided to destroy items that the players PAID for in an expansion.

Maybe DDO jumped the shark on update 51 and I keep on wishing they will solve sharn, feywild and saltmarsh quests and other big but list before launching anything new to the game. Quality of life changes is what DDO need to survive the years to come, not a shifter or a tabaxi, new EDs who didn´t added any fun to the game and limited the builds, 2 extra levels that want to build the game vertically but in many ways just annoys and destroy what we have as an endgame now. And the list goes on and on.

See the players with reincarnation bug? I spend over an YEAR begging for them to make a policy to solve it faster using social networks and cellphones. They didn´t. So far they lost a ton of players due to it and yet they rather do nich archetypes instead of fixing the core of the game like lag or chat issues in thelanis.

But bank changes are nice and something we needed. We just need patience to see it working properly.

From my own observation, the "community" for this game is fractured and spread across different platforms (I.E. Discord, Reddit, here, Twitch, etc). You get overlap here and there, but I think there are a lot of things that get missed unless someone takes the time to check all of the different websites / places devoted to this game. Maybe someone else has a better observation than me though; I'm one of those recluses who only plays solo.