Downtime Notice: Wednesday, August 31st 9:00 AM - 1:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT)

[noinfo]

The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently. We'll have a landing page on DDO.com up tomorrow as well.

As no one is surprised to hear...

No changes based on feedback made.

Bank-Great start
Free completionist? ok
Reaper shards 75? ok they could be 50 and almost reasonable.

TOEE broken up? Could have been good but missed opportunities. Including a zuggtmoy raid even if a one room. Exp and time? where these even looked at?

TOEE loot? Missed opportunity to bring weapons up to raid level with schism crafting.

The saddest thing is the TOEE missed opportunity. To me the PnP was fantastic and formed large parts of campaigns with an epic conclusion. The first implementation I actually enjoyed but lost much of its feel due to not being able to save progression for hit and runs. The mechanics of the end fight when it first came out (epic version not the heroic which I can't comment on) was fantastic. The room could have been larger but mechanically interesting.


Archtypes- best thing I can say is they are NOT required for completionist. More handwraps melee? The forums were being swamped with requests for that. The cleric even my death domain is not really seeing it. The bard might be ok. The concept is sound but these current ones don't interest me however maybe others enjoy them and opens frameworks later.

I won't mention divine nerfs.

Overall- if this update did not happen I would not miss it.

[PedXing20]

...The bard might be ok. The concept is sound ...

I see what you did there!!!

[fatherpirate]

I really appreciate SSG for trolling its own Hardcore players with this update. You guys are really crushing it--the player base. You're crushing the player base.

Where did this update hurt you?

really?

Temp of Elem evil - is now 3 parts - WHO CARES
3 new class option paths? - WHO CARES
Player bank upgrade - You really dislike that? I think you kinda alone on that.

How does any of this ADVERSLY effect HCL?

Did I miss something?

[Xezom]

I don't personally mind most of the nerfs. Do I think they're a good idea in their current magnitude, no, but I'm guessing there's something coming down the road to justify them (hopefully).

I do, however, think that the timing is horrid. I myself am not a Hardcore league player, but to me Hardcore is designed for (or should be about) players to show off their understanding of the game meta, their skill at playing and understanding the game, knowledge of the game to safely navigate adventures that make progress, and balancing risk and reward. Implementing nerfs like this can have a pretty nasty impact on players in Hardcore, which I also personally use as a type of testing ground for what could be considered safe/strong builds. If a build comes up frequently in Hardcore, there might be a reason for that, be it high sustain, safe reliable damage/cc, or just overall high power. While this might be a sign that the build needs looked at from a balance standpoint if it becomes the go to for any given Hardcore league, it is a terrible idea to make changes that effect character balance/power DURING a HC league because it disrupts both the purpose of HC and can skew data on builds should it be used for balance checking.

I'm looking forward to the Dark Apostate, and hoping that the damage meta magic working on Bane/Curse/Prayer/Bless works well enough to sure up the holes in the DA tree. I'm more looking forward to what the Archtypes mean for development down the road and what interesting builds could come from them. These first three are okay, but as we know the first of anything is usually a little rough around the edges.

Where did this update hurt you?

...


How does any of this ADVERSLY effect HCL?

Did I miss something?

Check the Lamannia preview 3 notes. There are pretty good nerfs to Aasmir lay on hands, reduced MCL/CL for AoV for FS, Holy Smite and all other alignment spells are now down to 1d6+4 of their damage, BAB is now capped at 25, and the one that triggered a lot of people, Sonic Blast is now single target not AoE anymore.

[noinfo]

Where did this update hurt you?

really?

Temp of Elem evil - is now 3 parts - WHO CARES
3 new class option paths? - WHO CARES
Player bank upgrade - You really dislike that? I think you kinda alone on that.

How does any of this ADVERSLY effect HCL?

Did I miss something?

Not surprisingly yes...

Nerf to current builds (leveling) particularly divines.
The change to favour on the TOEE Quests allowing people to effectively get the current version favour AND the new favour, provided they don't TR.

Changing the variables half way through an event is very much trolling your player base. Giving others an advantage in favour over others that cannot be obtained after a certain point is also trolling your player base.

[Epicsoul]

Did I miss something?

Yes, you did. First, I maintain that balance changes during HC is the worst timing. However, this does not impact me directly.

However, some players have already completed the existing TOEE quests on HC, and while those quests are being removed, the favor will stay. My group is about to TR on HC (we went straight for reaper xp). So essentially, some have a 30 favor advantage because we can no longer access the 'old' TOEE favor.

There are equitable ways of doing this. They chose not to. As someone who enjoys the competition and spent money for chest re rolls, etc., this is a crappy thing to do. They actively chose to ignore how they're screwing some players on HC; they don't care.

At this point, I think they should automatically give everyone on HC the existing ToEE favor.

[fatherpirate]

Not surprisingly yes...

Nerf to current builds (leveling) particularly divines.
The change to favour on the TOEE Quests allowing people to effectively get the current version favour AND the new favour, provided they don't TR.

Changing the variables half way through an event is very much trolling your player base. Giving others an advantage in favour over others that cannot be obtained after a certain point is also trolling your player base.

ohhhh
so some players can get extra favor to get the cosmetics .... that almost all
(reasonably) dedicated HCL players will get anyways?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHO CARES <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

oh oh oh Mr. Carter !!!
They might get an advantage on the leader board !!!!
and the prize for being on the leader board? NOTHING


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHO CARES <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

WHO CARES !

I don't !

BECAUSE -------------------------------> Anything you get in this event
will in no way effect what I get in this event.

everyone is arguing over bragging rights on a leader board they often forget to even update
after the event is over. A leader board that nobody except the people on it bother to
even read.

[Epicsoul]

/snip

Your posts are a waste of space on a dying game's forums and you're arguing that issues only matter if enough people care? The irony is rich, and my time earnestly responding to your inquiry wasted. Time for you to find another source of troll feed.

[HailBlazR]

Did I miss something?

Many, actually.

1. SSG is making ToEE even longer, for no good reason. From what people are saying on the Lamma forums, we now need to complete EVERY elemental node to flag for Zuggy. Plus, the experience is very bad from what people are saying.

2. SSG are removing ToEE level 7 weapons from the drop tables, for no good reason. Rather than overhaul it into something sensible like the Greensteel or Alchemical crafting (i.e. where each item type has only one base), SSG decided, brilliantly, to just get rid of the weapons entirely. Now, veteran players who farmed out these weapons, such as myself, are at a distinct advantage over the Johnny-come-latelies. Yay for reverse power creep?

3. You continue to either misrepresent or ignore the valid complaints that others are raising, with regards to HC. I don't care personally because my stance is "screw hardcore, it divides the playerbase even further and fundamentally doesn't even work given DDO's lag and RNG problems." But the points that people have are valid.

4. Aasimar being nuked from orbit for no stated reason

5. Divines being nuked from orbit for no stated reason

6. Sonic blast being nuked from orbit; a 16-year-old spell being massively changed, just to accommodate the latest new shiny thing (Stormsinger). The sensible approach would be, as many others have pointed out, to nerf the NEW THING instead of the thing which has been in the game since its inception.

7. And, as can be expected from SSG, given their track record over the past 5 years or so: an utter lack of receptiveness or responsiveness to player feedback.

Yes, there is some good in the update, and I'm grateful for free completionist. But there's a reason - many, in fact - people are cancelling their subscriptions en masse and complaining on the forums about U56. This is overall a very bad update and if you're not convinced, then you're either unable or unwilling to see why.

[noinfo]

ohhhh
so some players can get extra favor to get the cosmetics .... that almost all
(reasonably) dedicated HCL players will get anyways?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHO CARES <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

oh oh oh Mr. Carter !!!
They might get an advantage on the leader board !!!!
and the prize for being on the leader board? NOTHING


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHO CARES <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

WHO CARES !

I don't !

BECAUSE -------------------------------> Anything you get in this event
will in no way effect what I get in this event.

everyone is arguing over bragging rights on a leader board they often forget to even update
after the event is over. A leader board that nobody except the people on it bother to
even read.

And there we see it, as usual its about---> You

For some it may be a challenge to simply reach a basic goal and I hope that you are more successful this time around after the last HC season where you publicly rage quit on the forums- still nice to see you back by the way. For others its about being the best and this does NOT allow a consistent way to measure this. I don't actually care and have no stake in it but others do. Hey what do you know, its not about ME.

Changing the meta half way through the season is very poor form as the underlying goal was that people were able to translate the game and meta of the regular servers to succeed on HCL. They changed this. They changed fundamentally how some classes played mid way. Once again while this may impact one or 2 of my live characters I will adjust, doing this mid season is just poor form. Some have achieved their goals on builds that are going to be nerfed, is this fair to those who are looking toward those things? No.

I find it very interesting that someone who likes to believe they are the voice of the HCL can pick and choose for others in the HCL what is important to them.

[Aelonwy]

I can't help myself.

The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.

This^ in so many words is how you say time and feedback on Lammania are wasted.

[Hobgoblin51]

I can't help myself.



This^ in so many words is how you say time and feedback on Lammania are wasted.

This right here


i have so many things to say but they would all get me banned.


So i leave with this 2 items:


Dont bother putting lam up anymore. you dont want the feed back and wont change anything

and it is asinine to do this in the middle of hardcore


i leave you with this:

[droid327]

This^ in so many words is how you say time and feedback on Lammania are wasted.

Yup pretty much. After Preview 1, they're really just looking for enough people to confirm the dev's unilateral decisions that they feel validated that they're right and the grand majority of people who really oppose changes and present cogent and well-argued reasoning are just wrong and will come around when they "actually play it"

Breaking up TOEE is a good step, even if its not enough by itself to get people to actually play it because the XP/min is bad and it forces you to run all 4 wings in Part 2....

Archetypes are a nice idea in practice, though the first 3 are nothing exciting and I doubt many people will play anything but Stormsinger, and that only because they have to now...

The nerfs to casters, particularly Spellsingers, are just indefensible. Nothing else to be said, they're just 100% wrong and show a clear disdain for the playerbase and a questionable understanding of how people actually play the game. They continue to create new AOE content while they continually nerf all our viable AOE.

[noinfo]

I can't help myself.



This^ in so many words is how you say time and feedback on Lammania are wasted.

I wish I could give rep for this.

[Nickodeamous]

so, since whirlwind is reducing the feats, we all get lesser hearts or what? I'm sure the answer is probably no way, but I have to ask. lol

[Flopperjack]

Please consider reevaluating this update before releasing. I personally like many aspects of this update but also feel many were lackluster. As many others have voiced, there will be some grief that this will cause the players of hardcore as well with the favor adjustment and the fvs viability.
My personal view is that the class changes at the least need to be postponed as I have seen too much negative feedback with regards to the changes and their negative impacts, a big one is the sonic blast change, its one of the only aoe spells a low level caster can effectively use as burning hands/acid spray are a bit too close for a caster to do safely, and with how mobs are being assembled in the dungeons nowadays, without aoe a caster is helpless as there's like 7-10 enemies in a group and if they get close enough to use the two other spells then they are as good as dead.

I did really like the new sacred fist archetype but I couldn't help but wonder what the reasoning was to put the radiant servant tree in there as it does not seem like a healing specced build.

For the dark apostate it just seemed kinda weird, I had a hard time figuring out what the archetypes focus was as it did not excel at much and what it did excel at, it felt was undersupported (ie it has apostate dice for weapon user to imbue their weapons with, good, but no aura for self heals or chance to heal on hit, feels bad since this is directly competing with ek at this point for flavor and abilities when played this way)

Stormsinger I liked so no real complaints, just the sonic blast change as that was a key spell for any spellsinger/stormsinger/arcane caster.

Bank changes I am very enthusiastic about but weary because of the general problems associated with tinkering with the bank system.

Toee changes I am very sad to lose the craftable weapons, while you guys did add an augment to give us the aoe blast (I love that by the way, full support), with the general increased support for Eldritch Knight and Arcane Archer lately, it feels bad to remove one of the few sources in game of vulnerability stacks for elemental damage. The other loot changes to ToEE seemed ok, some items were good but many seemed meh since they are coming in at a level range where theres so many other sets from the revamped gear from the epic crafting pass and Isle of Dread, it just feels a little saturated at that level. I did not get a chance to explore the actual ToEE quests that got changed so will eagerly look forward to running those when they go live.

Overall this update does have some good stuff in it, but it feels like there's not enough good in it at the moment to outweigh all the negatives that going live with it will cause, particularly going live with hardcore active. I would personally consider adding the archetypes and bank/DD changes and leave the rest for after it has had more time to be hammered out and would be more appropriately timed. My biggest concern here is that you guys will push something that drives away players which will slowly whittle down the player base until there's not enough to support the game, I love this game so hope you guys will reconsider this update.

[Xezom]

Overall this update does have some good stuff in it, but it feels like there's not enough good in it at the moment to outweigh all the negatives that going live with it will cause, particularly going live with hardcore active. I would personally consider adding the archetypes and bank/DD changes and leave the rest for after it has had more time to be hammered out and would be more appropriately timed. My biggest concern here is that you guys will push something that drives away players which will slowly whittle down the player base until there's not enough to support the game, I love this game so hope you guys will reconsider this update.

This right here. I would second that motion. Put in the New Archtypes and dd changes if you must, but wait til end of the HCL for the rest and it would at least save some face or hard feelings. I personally don't play HCL, but I understand how frustrating it is to play a competitive mode and have your progress uprooted through no fault of your own. Public/Community opinion on SSG/DDO has been hurting lately and as Flopperjack said, my biggest concern is not the nerfs or shifts in the game, it's that players will get chased off by feeling their feedback is falling on deaf ears. I'm very fond of this game, and would love to continue to play it for years to come. It's just a little concerning to see the mounting disappointment/frustration from longstanding players that's been building of late.

The free packs and expanded free classes and other goodies that have been given out in the recent months/year have been really nice. I'll speak for myself when I say this as to not speak for everyone: To me, feeling like my concerns and feedback is at the very least being heard and taken into consideration is far more important than any free hand out. It's understandable that Dev's simply cannot spend all day responding to every piece of feedback that they get, else they'd never have to time to, ya know develop the game. But when something comes up like this patch that has had some VERY strong, reasonable, and constructive feedback (obviously mixed in together with plenty of simply angry and nonhelpful vent posts) it is vital that the communities concerns be addressed directly and with transparency.

[kmoustakas]

I was just about to ask about the maintenance window. I have nothing nice to say about the speed at which this update was shoveled at us so I will say nothing else.

We are meant to shut up and swallow it. Take our medicine like good little boys and girls and everything between.

[thegreatcthulhu]

We are meant to shut up and swallow it. Take our medicine like good little boys and girls and everything between.

It's hard to not feel that way anymore about any game that uses the tried and true dev practice of "throw it to the users and stick your head in the sand" methodology. I know I'm repeating an echo, but if SSG/Turb just came out and said "we don't care about your feels", it would at least be honest.

[fatherpirate]

You know, there is absolutely .... I would say nothing but the bank update might help me ....
'nothing (almost)' in this update for me.

I am ok with it.
Maybe because I am a casual player and can care less about multiple lives.
Even though it really has very little for me.

But it would seem that the Long time, multi-life,
raid for life crowd wants to (stealing your term)
nuke it from space.

I get told (over and over again) that I do not like
anything in the game ... I post, hey this update is ok
and out of the very woodwork come the vets screaming (basically) it must be Armageddon !

So I guess I am not even allowed to passively
be ok with some new content without a literal army
of detractors ready and poised to strike.

Don't you have anything better to do?
Why does my opinion cause a Tempest ?
Your never going to 'win' me over, but you
will certainly reinforce what I already think
concerning the Vet player base.

Which is ironic since I have been here longer than several of you.
2008 to be exact ---- 14 yrs ago
Sure, blast this from orbit, knock yourselves out.