Can we please get a full time Hard Core Server?

[Annex]

People who play hardcore for extended periods seem to universally enjoy the adrenaline rush and consequences. To promote long term play on a permanent hardcore server, perhaps something like the following would work:

1) Add special token drops to each level cap raid. An elite or higher completion drops one token for each surviving character.
2) Disable raid timer bypasses on the permanent hardcore server.
3) Add a vendor who will exchange 25 tokens from a specific raid for a cosmetic item. One such cosmetic item exists per raid.
4) Turn off 'reincarnation'.
5) Cap Reaper Points at 40.

This environment would create an end game raid community on the permanent hardcore server. Raid capable characters would suffer regular attrition, requiring constant replenishment. Completing a raid on elite without dying should challenge and thrill players who seek an adrenaline rush.

Obviously, many possible solutions exist to the 'reason to keep playing' problem. I offer this one only as an example.

The hardcore rebels should discuss these matters and find solutions for themselves.

[fatherpirate]

I see no agreement possible currently between the two schools of opinion
on this subject and the subject has been fully debated.

It is likely time to move on to other issues.

[Oxarhamar]

I see no agreement possible currently between the two schools of opinion
on this subject and the subject has been fully debated.

It is likely time to move on to other issues.

Players don’t have to agree & are free to continue with discussions as they see fit.

[Shaamis]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

[Annex]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.

[Eantarus]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

How is that ANY different from self-imposed permadeath? That's exactly how those people play.

[Oxarhamar]

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.

while I agree in theory there are perminate HC advocates in this thread that are soloists so that doesn't align for them

I will never understand why a soloist cant play by their own rules on anyserver

I've done an entire life only in explorer from 1-30 save a couple quests like into the mist which unlocked slayer area just to see how that was & I enjoy slayers.

I didn't need any special restrictions or a slayer server and I even ran in groups just listing slayer lfms some areas more popular than others

[Eantarus]

I've done an entire life only in explorer from 1-30 save a couple quests like into the mist which unlocked slayer area just to see how that was & I enjoy slayers.

Could you elaborate on this some? I also enjoy slayers and being ale to do 1-30 entirely on slayer zones sounds pretty nice.

[Oxarhamar]

Could you elaborate on this some? I also enjoy slayers and being ale to do 1-30 entirely on slayer zones sounds pretty nice.

Not much more to it but heroic slaying is slower because it’s not popular like epic

[Eantarus]

Not much more to it but heroic slaying is slower because it’s not popular like epic

Yeah I remember trying that sometimes in my early days. I know there are a few low/mid slayer areas that ward a total of 1 million XP, pretty nice chunk of a life right there.

[Annex]

while I agree in theory there are perminate HC advocates in this thread that are soloists so that doesn't align for them

I will never understand why a soloist cant play by their own rules on anyserver

Oh! I thought this entire thread was about group play! Yeah. If someone wants to hardcore solo, just do it! Sheesh.

[Eantarus]

Oh! I thought this entire thread was about group play! Yeah. If someone wants to hardcore solo, just do it! Sheesh.

Or hardcore with a static group. A tiny minority of the tiny minority of permadeath players have been whining since the start for dedicated servers. It doesn't seem like that will ever stop. Imagine: ten years from now, DDO has 2 servers and a single full-time dev taking care of bug fixes. The player population is maybe 3,000 and the game is in maintenance mode. The 3 remaining permadeath players will STILL beg for a dedicated permadeath server.

[spifflove]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

Thread winner! This is brilliant! Character would get a death head next to name and this would enforce guild rules and put the guild police out of business. It would also free players to seek greater risks away from risk mitigation guilds as they can group with normal reaper pugs.

HCL is unaffected.

If a toon dies, they can become a normal character for 50 ddo points per level.

[fatherpirate]

That same suggestion has been put out before.
The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.

Can I simplify?

Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.

[noinfo]

That same suggestion has been put out before.
The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.

Can I simplify?

Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.

You keep saying elite Vet players but I do not think that means what you think it means-

Those groups of players you are talking about are not impacted by HC-
They may go to HC and be done quickly with rewards ready to go on the real servers again.
They may continue on live servers as if HC is not there due to running with guild and short manning whatever if needed, though even with HC there did not seem to be any issues with the content I run.
Raid this can take a little longer to fill but you short man even without LFM you may need to LH instead of reaper but that's not really an issue.

Those who are really impacted by HC are those who are NOT vets and are not capable of the above. Those who are not interested in HC but want to simply play the regular game. The ones who need to pug to progress/level or raid.

[Oxarhamar]

That same suggestion has been put out before.
The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.

Can I simplify?

Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.

You can already play by those rules without changing the game especially if you solo

You’ve already stated that it’s not worth debating twice but still you are anyway

YW

[Shaamis]

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.

I can totally see that angle, and didnt see it that way, but it is viable as well. I guess my angle was as a player who is casual nowadays, when I used to play much more and at the highest levels of content on a daily basis.

Some players are looking for a way to earn "cooler" content without having to sacrifice career/family/house to play enough in the short HCL timeframe, and are looking for options.

Face it, the content is not hard, just has to be done quickly in a short timespan in order to get it.

But, thats what I love about this fanbase, broad age range, experience range, broad source of media that got us here, and we are keeping this game fresh.

/Cheers

[Shaamis]

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.

Thread winner! This is brilliant! Character would get a death head next to name and this would enforce guild rules and put the guild police out of business. It would also free players to seek greater risks away from risk mitigation guilds as they can group with normal reaper pugs.

HCL is unaffected.

If a toon dies, they can become a normal character for 50 ddo points per level.

These threads are looked at and they do glean information from them. I remember stuff we used to HARP about, that never saw the light of day until 5-10 years later.....but they do watch, read, and consider.

My suggestion is simply a way that people who choose to try hardcore, and play casually, can possibly get more time to do so. Our broad fanbase has some old grognards like myself who play not as much as I used to, but do spend $$ on my subscription, and extra $$ for cool, hats, etc.

I also believe that rewards easy to get to, will kill this game. So reward should fit the time/effort spent.

(Also I would think it would be pretty cool if HC characters with little skulls off their shoulders (like the ribbons back in the day) would be cool running around on the regular servers).

[cdbd3rd]

....
But, thats what I love about this fanbase, broad age range, experience range, broad source of media that got us here, and we are keeping this game fresh.

/Cheers

Oy! I be knowin' yer face. Ya knowin' how many years been since had a right proper drinkin' mate, eh?

Good ta see yer name floatin around again!

[Hanul]

I would play in a permanent hardcore server in a regular way if two conditions were met:

- The level restriction stayed at +2 or even less.
* Maybe if there are hounds or other critters like hounds then do not make it less than +2 (because it may be just too difficult, maybe)

- If when we die we have the option to reincarnate instead of delete the character or to transfer it. When reincarnating we can mantain our tomes and reincarnations... that means that if I reach level 20 and I reincarnate I can maintain that life I played in the next charactater I do if I die.... instead of losing it forever. Playing for a long time and losing it all for a very small mistake is fun... for a few weeks. Eventually the fun goes away. That's why allowing you to reincarnate after death is a much better option.
* Alternatively I would not mind if they allowed us to mantain a few items like for example if they allowed us to protect a few items from death. Although because we can make multiple characters and can maintain back up items the problem is not so big except in some cases like "bottle of smoke".

Having said so, if this conditions met I would have a lot of fun. I would see myself playing for a while in a permanent hardcore server if they did not allow us to reincarnate and mantain reincarnations through death... but in the end there would not be much difference with the temporal harcore server, that's why allowing reincarnations not to be lost would be a way to make a difference in this hardcore server and to give an incentive for the players to go on playing.


Additionally I gonna say that currently in the normal servers I am not playing and don't see me playing in them because... everytime i enter I see so few groups... while in harcore I can do any quest I want... while in normal servers I don't think is possible unless I solo which means I will be doing that quest with no challenge at all (example level 20 doing level 5 quests... after all if I can not group to do quests in level range only way possible is to do it while been higher level)