U56 Preview 3 Character Bank

[HumbleFriar]

Thank you all for your feedback. I can say that the personal bank not being emptied into the TR cache upon a TR is a bug. The system is meant to continue as it always had.

In response to the desire for more bank space, we hear you and have heard you. More space will be coming once we verify that everything is working as intended and we have not added any additional bugs with this new system.

[Mindos]

I can say that the personal bank not being emptied into the TR cache upon a TR is a bug. The system is meant to continue as it always had.

1. This is a major bug.
2. This is the third Lammania.
3. ???

Confidence is low. Maybe we should have 4 or 5 Lammania previews to make sure this is working right.

[Lamassut]

I don't care much for this idea. It seems too much like their awful ledger system and I don't trust them to get it right. Additionally mythic and reaper bonuses make this far harder to manage. I just want them to store my items and show me an organized list of what is there. They are getting close, they just need some tweaks, bug fixes and a reasonably costed capacity increase. It is 2022 this is not actually that hard any more.

You activate the recipe without mythic bonus. When you get an item with a mythic bonus, you sacrifice it to get the recipe with that mythic bonus. The items you produce with that recipe will be with mythic bonus. What does it matter if the alts benefit for once? They are penalized enough today. Almost everyone considers alts to be a burden.

As for reaper bonuses, it could be similar. Devs should be aware that the current reaper crafting system is too expensive to use with more than one character.

[ahpook]

You activate the recipe without mythic bonus. When you get an item with a mythic bonus, you sacrifice it to get the recipe with that mythic bonus. The items you produce with that recipe will be with mythic bonus. What does it matter if the alts benefit for once? They are penalized enough today. Almost everyone considers alts to be a burden.

As for reaper bonuses, it could be similar. Devs should be aware that the current reaper crafting system is too expensive to use with more than one character.

It sounds like this model would allow the recipe to create multiple items. This would also have repercussions on sentient XP, no?

Again, it is not a bad idea. I just don't want to go through the months to years of issues until SSG gets this working correctly. Getting a bank system working seems far easier and here we are...

[Lamassut]

It sounds like this model would allow the recipe to create multiple items. This would also have repercussions on sentient XP, no?

Again, it is not a bad idea. I just don't want to go through the months to years of issues until SSG gets this working correctly. Getting a bank system working seems far easier and here we are...

Sentient xp should not be able to be replicated like this. The sticker (or recipe) book is not so that we do not have to store absolutely any object in the bank. It is to reduce the number of mules we currently have. We would not have to store objects that we are not going to use in a while, or that we save just in case we do a build in the future. We would still store as physical objects, with augments and such, the items we use the most. But not having to have mules and mules with objects that we could potentially use, but don't use now, or a TR cache full of items not suitable for the builds I'm playing now but will want to use in the future... that would be a big, big change.

Because let's be honest, do you think that with the current storage paradigm we are going to have substantial improvements in space, are we going to have "a bank that works"? With the current paradigm it is not possible to give up the mules, it simply will not be possible. It will not be possible to give up the TR cache. We are not even going to be able to store all the items that the following updates will bring. It's crazy how much new space we would have to buy (and they implement) for storage to stop being hell...

[Deathlylife]

Character Bank Bug when closing tabs with items in them.

Loc Lordsmarch Bank: Capacity 20 Slots
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST 1: Lvl 4 Bard with starter gear
4 Tabs: Main (1 Item), Tab 1 (19 Items), Tab 2 (0 Items), Tab 3 (0 Items)
Closed Tab 2 and Tab 3 with no issue.
When closing Tab 1, there was no warning that items were in the tab and only 10 of the items successfully transferred into Main tab.
The only items to transfer were the lvl 4 bard starter BTC items.

Items Lost: 9 total
Bard material comps (3 and 4)
Cleric, Lvl 04 Contract: Maloren
Tome of Destiny +1 (Historic)
MotU claim ticket
Lesser Heart of Wood
Cloak of Destiny
15th Anniversary Cloak
Deathwalker's Sash
------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST 2: Lvl 4 Fighter with starter gear
2 Tabs: Main (2 items), Tab 1 (2 items)
Closed Tab 1 with no issue, all items successfully transferred to Main tab, this included Lesser Heart of Wood and Cloak of Destiny
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST 3: Lvl 4 Fighter with starter gear
2 Tabs: Main (1 Item), Tab 1 (19 Items)
Closed Tab 1 and only 10 items successfully transferred to Main tab.
The only items to transfer were the first 10 placed into Tab 1 (the 9 missing from Test 1 all successfully transferred this time)

Items Lost: 9 total
Lvl 4 Fighter Starter gear (7 pieces)
Arrow x100
Sun Flasks x8
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attempts to find missing gear for Test 1 and 3:
Create Tab 1 again (nothing in Tab)
Search Bar (no result for Item name)
x on Search bar (no change)
Close/Reopen Bank Windows (no Change)
Leave Lordsmarch Bank to Market and Reenter (no Change)
Relog Character (no change)
Swap Character (no change)

When attempting to place another item into the bank get error message "That bank is full" when the capacity says 11 of 20. When I scroll I only see 11 items (can not see missing 9). Removing all 11 items says capacity 0 of 20 for main tab with no other tabs. Putting back 1 item into Main tab says capacity 10 of 20 but can only see the 1 (still missing 9).

It appears that the last 9 items placed into Tab 1 for both tests (different items each test) went missing but are still considered to be in the bank but can not be seen or accessed after closing tab 1 and the items failed to transfer to main tab.

[ChrisTOTG]

I agree with the other posts, not big enough upgrades.

595 for 20 slots is too expensive. A new char costs 625 for 80 base slots and you don't want to encourage even more bank alts. The constant log on/off must cause unnecessary server strain.

Agreed. I have 18 character slots, iirc. Two characters to play, and sixteen to hold all my gear. Buying a single character slot for about $5 (or a couple of lives' worth of points) gives me 80 inventory slots immediately, and I can get 80 more in two hours by running favor. So why would I be interested in only having 20 slots for $5 worth of points? Every additional tab has less marginal utility, cuz taking you from 200 to 220 inventory slots on a single character is less benefit than going from 0 to 160 with a new mule.

20 slots is not a solution to endlessly-multiplying character-bound junk either. Why do we have 57 character-bound minor artifacts but only one that's account-bound? And why are so many low-level items still character-bound, such as runearms and quivers and shortswords and armor and so many other random items? This would be a massive change - It would free up a massive amount of junk that sits in my TR cache every life.

Relevant copypastes from the wiki:

2500 items that bind to character on equip or on pickup:

Pages in category "Binds to character"
The following 200 pages are in this category, out of 2,484 total.

3600 items that bind to account on equip or pickup:

Pages in category "Binds to account"
The following 200 pages are in this category, out of 3,619 total.

And while I'm being a grump, allowing character-bound items to stay in the TR cache during reincarnation would make life SO MUCH BETTER.


Really, the problem of "not enough bank slots per character" seems very similar to "too many character-bound items". Other than "I want more slots", the user-facing problems are proliferation of bound items and the annoying UI. Improving the UI is gonna be awesome for sure, but maybe we can deal with the item issue too?

[Khalibano]

Just wanted to share my omments/thoughts/suggestions once again, as I did not see major changes since I last share feedback on this:
- Thank you for dedicating engineering and other resources into making improvements to the storage system. This very much needed and has been a popular request for years
- I really like the ability to create tabs to help organise items better. Could I please suggest for more than 8 extra tabs to be available?
- I also like being able to rename them: this, however, could use some extra work on to be a little more user friendly?
- I would like to see the same upgrades given to the crafting storage (i.e. tabs, filters, etc.)

- I would personally like to be able to store items in the order that I like, a bit like the current bank system is now. One of the things I dislike the most about the way the shared bank is currently now on live is that things cannot be re-arranged once inside the bank, unless you take them out and drop them back in the order you want them to be. It was disappointing to see the regular bank become like that
- At a minimum, perhaps functionality to move items up/down within the bank could be added (much like the current augment bags allow you to do)?
- Please also consider adding the ability to move items from the character bank straight into the shared and/or crafting storage, rather than needing to move them into inventory first

- My biggest disappointment was not seeing more space being given by default. Considering the game has been around for such a long time, that it offers a very large amount of desirable loot, and that the loot can be re-used via reincarnation, it would feel respectful to at least double/triple the amount of basic space that is given. Too many of us have to have at least 3+ extra characters to function solely as banks. I play 23 alts, and have 6 bank characters, for which I purchased all extra inventory and bank space too. I know I might be an odd one in this regard, but I am certain that storage is currently in need of massive expansion, even to those who have already spent a considerable amount of money to max storage
- Logging in and out of mules to look for the items you want and transfer them via shared bank to the character you need them on is very time consuming and clunky. I woild very much like to see this system of storage gone completely.
- Apart from the above, I am very hopeful that more space will be made available to purchase in the future

[MasterKernel]

Couple of things.

First, there is a level filter that allows you filter to select out your TR gear.
Second, I believe there is also a sort order that displays things in the order they were added (or the reverse of that order).

It doesn't help. Like at all. May not even exist.

Fourth, you can still put the items in different tabs in the new system. Only now you get more tabs and you won't have unused blank space in a tab you don't need it in.

So... would I be able to create 100+ tabs, because I would need separate tab for each individual items set ? Guess, we've know the answer already...

[MasterKernel]

You can create tabs and recreate your experience of organizing by tab if you desire.

Nope. There are only 8 tabs and I would need a lot more, i.e. one individual tab for each individual items set.

It has the benefit of showing the item name instead of just an image

It's NOT a benefit ! The new system force me to learn all of the items' names, something I didn't bother to do for 12 years of playing DDO !

This new system is not perfect but it is far far better than the system that we have now. Have you actually tried it?

Yes, I've tried it. It's the worst imaginable banking system ever.

[ahpook]

Nope. There are only 8 tabs and I would need a lot more, i.e. one individual tab for each individual items set.



It's NOT a benefit ! The new system force me to learn all of the items' names, something I didn't bother to do for 12 years of playing DDO !


Yes, I've tried it. It's the worst imaginable banking system ever.

I guess you don't like it. But it is odd to see one complain about only 8 tabs when there are only 5 tabs now. And to complain about forcing to learn a name when the icon image is also there so you can simply go by the image liek you do now. The only thing that you can't do is go "the item i need is in row 4 col 3 of tab 3". But I really doubt that most players memorized the grid location of 100 items on each character.

[Sqrlmonger]

Thank you all for your feedback. I can say that the personal bank not being emptied into the TR cache upon a TR is a bug. The system is meant to continue as it always had.

In response to the desire for more bank space, we hear you and have heard you. More space will be coming once we verify that everything is working as intended and we have not added any additional bugs with this new system.

Respectfully, the question isn't if you intend to offer more, we can see you intend to offer more. The question is if you are prepared to substantially change the paradigm of how much bank capacity is offered?

Right now, based on your testing, it appears you plan to offer 20 spaces for 595 at a time. If the intention is to maintain that rate, as many have posted their concerns over, this is not sufficient and utterly fails to meet player needs.

Our concerns are specific and direct and your answer(s) have not matched that specificity and directness. I understand and respect that you may not always be able to share every detail of future plans with us, but this is a really critical aspect of the bank system that players have waited for literally more than decade to be resolved and we are VERY apprehensive that it may not ever be handled properly if we are not vocal here and now.

So again, once the testing and validation of the new system are complete, do you intend to substantially improve the rate of acquisition and total capacity of bank space that is available to far beyond what is currently offered if the performance allows for it?

[mbartol]

If I had purchased extra backpack/bank tabs on a mule, would it be possible to transfer the additional slots to the shared bank?
If not, then I will need to keep my herd.

How about being able to access mule storage from your main character?
It would be kinda like having a pack mule with additional equipment available without logging out.

[misterski]

If I had purchased extra backpack/bank tabs on a mule, would it be possible to transfer the additional slots to the shared bank?
If not, then I will need to keep my herd.

Why would they allow this? Shared bank slots cost more than character bank slots and also shared bank slots are an account upgrade while character bank slots/backpack are a character upgrade. Wouldn't make sense to allow it for either reason.

[LittleLexi]

Respectfully, the question isn't if you intend to offer more, we can see you intend to offer more. The question is if you are prepared to substantially change the paradigm of how much bank capacity is offered?

Right now, based on your testing, it appears you plan to offer 20 spaces for 595 at a time. If the intention is to maintain that rate, as many have posted their concerns over, this is not sufficient and utterly fails to meet player needs.

Our concerns are specific and direct and your answer(s) have not matched that specificity and directness. I understand and respect that you may not always be able to share every detail of future plans with us, but this is a really critical aspect of the bank system that players have waited for literally more than decade to be resolved and we are VERY apprehensive that it may not ever be handled properly if we are not vocal here and now.

So again, once the testing and validation of the new system are complete, do you intend to substantially improve the rate of acquisition and total capacity of bank space that is available to far beyond what is currently offered if the performance allows for it?

Well said. Very much this ^

[grrowler]

This feature is already implemented thankfully. Though it is not intuitive at the moment.

There is a little arrow you need to click which will allow you to edit the tab name. I would edit a screenshot to point it out but I'm not in a good place to do so now and I think you could probably work it out anyway looking more closely with this added info.

thanks for the clarification - yeah I was wondering what the arrow meant, but yeah I was able to figure out how to rename the tabs. I guess I should have read the threads from the previous previews.

I did have a question - from my understanding on what I read from what others posted, the reincarnation cache is being organized so that it is also paginated with tabs and searchable.
Does this new storage system somehow get rid of the possibility of those reincarnation bugs where you lose your entire reincarnation cache (along with your inherent stat tome bonuses/etc)?

I still feel like DDO should work towards getting rid of the reincarnation cache completely. If this new storage system makes the reincarnation cache less of a performance issue though, then maybe it is ok to have everyone storing past life gear in a reincarnation cache, but I feel like the ultimate solution would be to have a personal storage system that is not tied in to reincarnation at all, so that there is no chance of losing it all.

[Sqrlmonger]

thanks for the clarification - yeah I was wondering what the arrow meant, but yeah I was able to figure out how to rename the tabs. I guess I should have read the threads from the previous previews.

I did have a question - from my understanding on what I read from what others posted, the reincarnation cache is being organized so that it is also paginated with tabs and searchable.
Does this new storage system somehow get rid of the possibility of those reincarnation bugs where you lose your entire reincarnation cache (along with your inherent stat tome bonuses/etc)?

I still feel like DDO should work towards getting rid of the reincarnation cache completely. If this new storage system makes the reincarnation cache less of a performance issue though, then maybe it is ok to have everyone storing past life gear in a reincarnation cache, but I feel like the ultimate solution would be to have a personal storage system that is not tied in to reincarnation at all, so that there is no chance of losing it all.

I can't speak to whether it gets rid of that bug or not...BUT I have to imagine if it is not copying items from one inventory to another and they are just remaining where they are it would be more difficult for them to get lost. But again, without knowing the implementation that is pure speculation on my part.

[Khalibano]

Please, add ability to filter by item type (e.g. bracers).
ideally, it would be so amazing if each tab had the functionality of the current bank tabs (i.e. square grids, where items can be placed in the order we wish)

[Splunge]

Overall, I like the changes. Allowing us to create tabs is good. It fixes the problems from the last attempt to change the bank UI.

I was going to complain that there was no way to rename the tabs, but someone pointed out that you can. So instead, I guess I'll complain that it's too hard to figure out how to do it. :-)

One minor bug: Create 5 tabs. Delete the first two. Create a new tab. Since there are only three existing tabs, it starts renaming them at "tab 4" again, giving you multiple tabs with the same name.

[Splunge]

A few suggestions:

1) There's an option to filter by slot, but there are a lot of items that can go into the bank that don't get equipped (scrolls, potions, etc.). Would it be possible to have a none/other filter for these?

2) It's great that you added the UI for the TR cache! Could you add it for crafting storage, too? Sometimes, I use it to transfer items between toons, and I would love to have a "most recently added" sort option. Right now, I have to search for each item individually. It takes far too long to page through the list to get to the end.

3) Removing items from the TR cache is much faster than it was a year or so ago, but an "empty TR cache" button would still be a really great addition.