Frost lance, magical training suggestion, and strikethrough with druid animal forms

[Mindos]

Questions: 1. Can frost lance be evaded, dodged, or even physically avoided at all? Reaper shoots it, it looks like a series of projectiles, but bam bam bam it seems to always hit you?

2. If you take the feat, as a feat, not from anywhere else, if you take the feat magical training, can we change this to also grant you the ability to take metamagic feats such as quicken, without having to be a spellcasting class?

4. Strikethrough. How does it work or does it even work in animal form with a druid? I'm thinking of monk with a quarterstaff, multi with druid for wolf form. I don't know what I'm doing.

5. ???

[misterski]

Questions: 1. Can frost lance be evaded, dodged, or even physically avoided at all? Reaper shoots it, it looks like a series of projectiles, but bam bam bam it seems to always hit you?

2. If you take the feat, as a feat, not from anywhere else, if you take the feat magical training, can we change this to also grant you the ability to take metamagic feats such as quicken, without having to be a spellcasting class?

4. Strikethrough. How does it work or does it even work in animal form with a druid? I'm thinking of monk with a quarterstaff, multi with druid for wolf form. I don't know what I'm doing.

5. ???

3. Not sure what happened to question 3, lol.

4. Strikethrough works in bear/dire bear form only, not wolf form.

[KoobTheProud]

Frost Lance is a projectile attack so yes it can be avoided. However if it is quickened it's probably tough to do unless you were already moving laterally when it was cast.

My experience with this is that you have to completely avoid the path of the attack or it will register on you and if one projectile hits all projectiles in the attack share the hit status. This also means that if the first projectile misses the others will also, even if you somehow wind up back in the line of fire during the event.

Similar mechanics to avoiding a ray spell. Be moving out of line of fire as the spell is being cast or get hit.

[Mindos]

4. Strikethrough works in bear/dire bear form only, not wolf form.

Do you happen to know if this is documented anywhere in the game? Is it in the tooltips for forms for example? I'm not doubting the veracity of your statement. I wonder if it should be more advertised or if I've just missed it.

Frost Lance is a projectile attack so yes it can be avoided. However if it is quickened it's probably tough to do unless you were already moving laterally when it was cast.

I was messing around with a Reaper, staying just outside closing range but too close for teleport to kick in. And just watching it cast Frost Lance over and over. So I had some time to experiment. It hones in on you. Tracks left or right as you strafe. AND... even playing with obstacles made no difference. At a corner junction I would 1. wait for the cast and then 2. stafe left right away behind the corner. You can see the frost lances hit the wall. And you get the damage hits as well.

Somethings wrong here I think. The graphic doesn't match the actual spell projectile position. It's almost like it's drawn behind it, or even the graphic has NO relation whatsoever. But the tracking nature of the lances is what really first got my attention.

[misterski]

Do you happen to know if this is documented anywhere in the game? Is it in the tooltips for forms for example? I'm not doubting the veracity of your statement. I wonder if it should be more advertised or if I've just missed it.

The tooltip for Wild Shape Bear/Wild Shape Dire Bear say that they get Strikethrough and the WIld Shape: Wolf/Wild Shape: Winter Wolf tool tips do not. The Natural Fighting feat gives Stirkethrough bonuses to Bear/Dire Bear but not Wolf/Winter Wolf. Also, the other weapon style feats don't work in animal form as documented in the wiki (look in the druid class under Level 2). Can look under Wild Shape, also.

Weapon styles used to work with animal forms but that was changed years ago and Natural Fighting was added to take their place for animal forms.

[Eantarus]

Questions: 1. Can frost lance be evaded, dodged, or even physically avoided at all? Reaper shoots it, it looks like a series of projectiles, but bam bam bam it seems to always hit you?

2. If you take the feat, as a feat, not from anywhere else, if you take the feat magical training, can we change this to also grant you the ability to take metamagic feats such as quicken, without having to be a spellcasting class?

4. Strikethrough. How does it work or does it even work in animal form with a druid? I'm thinking of monk with a quarterstaff, multi with druid for wolf form. I don't know what I'm doing.

5. ???

Why so many unrelated requests in the same thread?

[droid327]

I don't think MT alone should qualify you for metamagic. Spellcasting classes should just be better at casting spells...just like casters shouldn't be able to, eg, ignore the bab requirement for melee feats if they take weapon focus

You can maybe argue that metas have an alternate pre req of character level 20, so you could take them as epic feats if you wanted, like casters can eventually get 11 bab in epic. But not in heroic. Feydark doesn't need to turn every class into a pocket force sorc.

[LightBear]

Interestingly, as a paladin you don't get magical training but do have access to meta feats.

I don't know why you want access to meta casting feats if you don't have a spellbook.
Maybe the fey color spray should not be allowed to be cast without a spellbook either as it is not a feat, maybe it should because it is an ability (spell like).
For which Spell, Feat or SLA does the OP want which Meta-Magics?

[Mindos]

I don't think MT alone should qualify you for metamagic. Spellcasting classes should just be better at casting spells...just like casters shouldn't be able to, eg, ignore the bab requirement for melee feats if they take weapon focus

You can maybe argue that metas have an alternate pre req of character level 20, so you could take them as epic feats if you wanted, like casters can eventually get 11 bab in epic. But not in heroic. Feydark doesn't need to turn every class into a pocket force sorc.

Interestingly, as a paladin you don't get magical training but do have access to meta feats.

I don't know why you want access to meta casting feats if you don't have a spellbook.
Maybe the fey color spray should not be allowed to be cast without a spellbook either as it is not a feat, maybe it should because it is an ability (spell like).
For which Spell, Feat or SLA does the OP want which Meta-Magics?

Looking at two things: Feydark Illusionist's Greater Color Spray, which can be quickened, heightened, etc. And Tiefling's Obscuring Darkness, which can only be quickened (I believe). My thinking was, if you're already paying a hefty opportunity cost (a feat) from taking Magical Training, then what would happen if Quicken, and probably only quicken, was then allowed to be taken?

A pure 20 non caster(ing) class with a quickened Greater Color Spray or a full 20 non caster(ing) class Tiefling with a quickened Obscuring Darkness? Is this overpowered? Does that break anything? We hand out Magical Training like it's candy in several places, so is it "wrong" to allow Quicken choices with a FEAT used for Magical Training?

[LightBear]

Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue and Monk are the only classes without a spellbook in DDO, right?
A (dark) gnome casting a racial color spray or unlocked via Fey.
Imho either through a racial ability like gnomes or through training via Fey should unlock all meta magics.
Not sure if wise to spend points there but that is up to the player and could potentially lead to interesting builds.

I do seriously think that the speed at which most of the game is played does require quicken for spells like obscuring darkness for it to be of any effect.

[droid327]

L We hand out Magical Training like it's candy in several places, so is it "wrong" to allow Quicken choices with a FEAT used for Magical Training?

Yeah I think so. Its not like Quicken is absolutely necessary to use GCS, where its just pointless to even take GCS if you cant Quicken it.

Characters with zero spellcaster levels at all will just have to invest a little in Concentration to not be interrupted, and will have to time it a beat earlier (its not Dancing Ball or anything where there's a 3 second wind-up). Again, class matters, and especially when you're talking about Universal trees, you dont want the tree to completely define your build and playstyle to the point where your class doesnt matter at all.