The new archetypes and an omission that needs to be addressed

[krimsonrane]

I agree with you.
The others seem to be on a "both sides of slavery/genocide" argument.

[Xgya]

With D&D alignments, It would only be fair if you
1) Use them all as given IN ALL VERSIONS OF THE RULES FROM THE
VERY FIRST Ed. TO CURRENT.

DM said no explicitly Evil characters, but loosened the restriction on a small selection of traditionally evil classes and spells.

That's what it boils down to.

DM decides what books and classes are allowed, what races you can start as, what's your starting equipment.

In our case, DM = SSG.

DM said no Psionic characters even though we're facing Quori. A few players object and push towards allowing players to play Psions, but the final decision is STILL the DM's.
DM said no explicitly Evil characters, and also added that no argument would make them change that houserule. So it's here to stay.

[Aradnilly]

That said, my lawful good artificers love ghostshot, evilshot, poison weapons. Anything that does damage, cursing, enfeebling, maldroit, freezing solid, turning into a cloud of bats when hit.

Those things always make me smile, although my irl alignment has slipped a bit with age.

There are 2 (at least) approaches to neutral characters; those that do nothing too good or too evil,(meaning they work in the grey), or those that swing heavily to pure good then to pure evil. (swing---swing)

AAAAAnnnd vampires throwing light spells along with other undead seems wrong

There are some amazingly evil weapons in the game, things with the taint of evil and things tainted with madness..

I sometimes wonder if all of our alignments are slipping..

[fatherpirate]

You know what bugs me more than not being able to
say a Wizard Palemaster is evil?

It is that a Paladin can splash 3 levels of wizard
and become a lich ... and still be a Paladin.

also, what is the point of having evil aligned
weapons on the loot table? If there are no evil characters?
More vendor trash?

If they (SSG) are refusing to follow standard D&D rules,
at least restrict LG Characters from accessing evil 'dark'
skill trees.

[Oxarhamar]

You know what bugs me more than not being able to
say a Wizard Palemaster is evil?

It is that a Paladin can splash 3 levels of wizard
and become a lich ... and still be a Paladin.

also, what is the point of having evil aligned
weapons on the loot table? If there are no evil characters?
More vendor trash?

If they (SSG) are refusing to follow standard D&D rules,
at least restrict LG Characters from accessing evil 'dark'
skill trees.

Read the quote by Eladrin they are following the rules just not the ones you want them to

[Tepi]

Maybe a good necromancer doesnt make the most sense, but an evil necromacer going around saving the innocent and protecting the weak makes even less sense. The player character is firmly rooted on the side of good in the story, adding an evil alignment would add nothing to the game in terms of lore or design. Maybe if the game had moral and legal choices and your alignment was affected dynamically it would make sense but no matter what build/race/class your character, you are on the side of good.

[cdbd3rd]

Even if we do start dipping into more traditionally dark paths with some of these Archetypes, we still won't have Evil alignment in the game, and we have no plans to bring it into the game.

Good.

Because....

No to Evil Alignment for Player Characters

Evil Alignment lets people say "I griefed your raid/quest/whatever because my player character is evil" rather than having to accept "I griefed your raid/quest/whatever because I, the player, am a git"

replace git with any appropriate word

It would happen every single day. It goes exactly that way in PnP, and would absolutely happen more in an MMO.

"git" fits perfectly.

-----

edit: Yes, I recognize the awkward dichotomies that already exist with certain character build combos. It's just when the word "evil" comes into play, it seems to flip a switch in some people where they become real pains to be around.

[PaddyMaxson]

In this case, can we get Blackguard as an archetype, instead of that lame Fisting Pally?

I'm pretty certain they hinted at that being an archetype they'd like to have "and even different alignment restrictions (for example, a Paladin that would very much like you to NOT be lawful good)"

So hopefully that's coming sooner rather than later.

[Seikojin]

I have to admit I find the argument against Evil carries significantly less water with me sinince Dark Ap was announced. This makes the house rule against it make a lot less sense, and is one I'd have to argue at the table were this pen and paper.

In the end, it makes no difference to me one way or the other if Evil alignments were added to the game. I'd not play the alignment because I don't enjoy playing the bad guy, or even the anti-hero. But, I think this decision of DA puts a lot of stress on SSG's position not to.

I think down the road, an expansion could be a thing that adds evil alignments and events where players do the bad guy types of things and fight against the very hirelings we use as good guys.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'm pretty certain they hinted at that being an archetype they'd like to have "and even different alignment restrictions (for example, a Paladin that would very much like you to NOT be lawful good)"

So hopefully that's coming sooner rather than later.

4th & 5th edition, paladin alignment restrictions were dropped, the idea being that while the classic LG ones certainly exist as classic crusader types, paladin shifted more to be a specific soldier of a god/pantheon & following that pantheon's beliefs, so a paladin of Elistraee would be CG, concerned with freedom, while a paladin of kelemvor would be LN, certainly compassionate enough but order would be taking priority.

[Jango-EX]

DDO uses the real-world approach, as in "the other guy is evil, not me", so I can be a lich that sucks the life out of every living being while using forbidden arcane artifacts and still be a good boy that does it all for the family

[Zuldar]

But one thing we do know for sure in DDO is that actually being Evil (committing evil deeds, etc.) is for adversaries and NPCs, not for PCs.

Evil finds a way.

[Xgya]

DDO uses the real-world approach, as in "the other guy is evil, not me", so I can be a lich that sucks the life out of every living being while using forbidden arcane artifacts and still be a good boy that does it all for the family

Eberron is DDO's main setting.
That's how alignment works in Eberron.

You can have Lawful Good Paladins fighting other Lawful Good Paladins in the name of Justice and Goodness.

[Oxarhamar]

Eberron is DDO's main setting.
That's how alignment works in Eberron.

/thread

[cdbd3rd]

I actually thought about this thread yesterday as my CG Arty was massacring Halflings in Purge'. (repeatedly) Those tasty XPs rolling in as I garnered up my Halfling Hunter and Halfling Exterminator accomplishments.

Who needs Evil alignments?

[SisAmethyst]

Barbarians, bards, monks and paladins are hit with alignment difficulties, but having a lawful good necromancer is just fine?

I think I saw a filigree that had smites and negative healing on it, so a lawful good necro/pali is okay but a lawful good bard is not?

Maybe remove alignment from the game.

Lawful for a Necromancer is actually no problem at all, as it just require you to adhere to a certain code, which may even include killing people if the law asks for it. Good alignment might sound a bit more tricky. However, you are mixing a class - which is more like a profession - with an ethos or feeling. In this case Necromancy could be considered like his profession. The PC could work for the graveyard to protect a holy site or for the police, investigating a crime by speaking to the dead, which would perfectly fit a Lawful Good character.
Also why should a necromany spell like harm or necrotic ray be any different than a fireball cast if you use it to attempt to kill someone? It's more of a question how, against whom in which context you use a spell, not about the school you use to achieve your goals. Also look at the spell 'Undeath to Death', which is also necromancy school but is used to lay undead to rest, so it is also a matter which spell you select from a school.

[Bjond]

Even if we do start dipping into more traditionally dark paths with some of these Archetypes, we still won't have Evil alignment in the game, and we have no plans to bring it into the game.

Heh. DDO doesn't support alignment as much more than a flavor tag on a character's bio or a meaningless class-choice gate. Permitting "Evil" in your bio wouldn't change the game a whit other than making a few players happier.

Besides, D&D and DDO are both so rife with basic evil that the game couldn't be played without it. As an example, entire races are just plain assumed to be evil and to be killed on sight.

Paladin RP'er: "Why did you kill that poor orc? It was just strolling down the path!"
Paladin Gamer: "Huh?"

[Smelt32]

If Memory serves, I growing old now so it may not, I believe the players asked why no evil alignment right at the beginning of DDO. The answer was if evil alignment was introduced into the game they would lose their "Teen" or "pegi 13" certification and the game would be certified "adult" or "pegi 18" in the states at least. This was back when there were European servers as well as USA servers. I'm guessing the reason for that harks back to the whole "D&D is encouraging satanism and suicide" nonsense from the eigthies.

I'm guessing that this is still the case, and while it is there will be no Evil alignment choices for PC's.

[Oxarhamar]

If Memory serves, I growing old now so it may not, I believe the players asked why no evil alignment right at the beginning of DDO. The answer was if evil alignment was introduced into the game they would lose their "Teen" or "pegi 13" certification and the game would be certified "adult" or "pegi 18" in the states at least. This was back when there were European servers as well as USA servers. I'm guessing the reason for that harks back to the whole "D&D is encouraging satanism and suicide" nonsense from the eigthies.

I'm guessing that this is still the case, and while it is there will be no Evil alignment choices for PC's.

True indeed thank you

[Conjured]

Eberron was designed with Neo Noir intentions involved with its story play, that's why the few times throughout our PCs designed to be good characters did evil actions with the intentions of a good outcome. And I don't disagree with you that evil alignment could be added to the game at this point, Evil characters doing good acts for an evil outcome (wanting to gain more power for themselves). Granted however, that Neo Noir is hard to execute properly as it comes down to the very core of the individual vs what the public sees as their alignment.