Update 56 Preview 1: Dark Apostate Archetype

[Propane]

Hello!

I was wondering if you were looking at making any tweaks to Warpriest in this pass?

A few items to consider...

Core 1 - Smite Foe --> 1W per core, shorter cool down
Core 2 - could use a little scaling - + 1% armor class per core or ...
Core 3 - Sanctuary needs to be longer duration to be more useful
Core 5 - +4 stat, Allow Divine Vessel to stack more and be used anytime it is being built up (50 stacks - 20 + 2 per cleric / epic level)

T2
Smite Weakness - this decay is too fast 0 you can never build any stacks!

T3 Radiant Flourish - 2/3/4 W with 400% scaling.. cool down is good

T4 Silence Wicked - 2/3/4 W with shorter cool downs
T4 Ameliorating Strike - too many game "hickups" that this misses often - would be better with shorter cool downs or if it when off regardless of if you hit or not

Food for thought - thanks!

[Impaqt]

DD is Cores are broken for DA Archtype as well.

For Dark Path Core 2 allows you to take Dark Cleric L3 OR Dark Cleric Level 18 effectively locking out Core 6.

I'm not following moving away from Aura healing with the Dark Apstate... makes no sense..

Clerics have had aura based healing for a very long time.

Aura healing is a staple for Pale Masters.

You simply cannot combine the 2 and take away aura healing.... Death Aura needs to be in the Dark Apostate tree. Please.

[Impaqt]

Sorry for so many separate replies. Trying t o take this all in in bite sized pieces.

This tree has very strange core abilities. It will not make sense unless you look at it in-game.

Core A: Multiselector:

• Emissary of Light: Req Cleric 1, antireq Emissary of Darkness: You have chosen Light as your path. For each Core Ability you take in this tree, you gain +5 Light and Alignment Spellpower.
• Emissary of Darkness: Req Cleric 1, antireq Emissary of Light: You have chosen Darkness as your path. For each Core Ability you take in this tree, you gain +5 Negative spellpower.

Core B: Multiselector:

• Aspect of the Sun: Req Cleric 3: You gain +2 to all Saving Throws and +3 PRR.
• Empowered by the Darkness: Req Cleric 3: You gain +2 to all Saving Throws and +3 MRR.

Core C: Multiselector:

• Light Spellbook I: Req Cleric 6: Your Cleric spellbook gains Sunbolt as a Level 3 spell.
• Dark Spellbook I: Req Cleric 6: Your Cleric spellbook gains Enervation as a Level 3 spell.

Core D: Multiselector:

• Light Spellbook II: Req Cleric 12: Your Cleric spellbook gains Sunbeam as a Level 6 spell.
• Dark Spellbook II: Req Cleric 12: Your Cleric spellbook gains Necrotic Ray as a Level 6 spell.

Core E: Multiselector:

• Light Spellbook III: Req Cleric 18: Your Cleric spellbook gains Sunburst as a Level 8 spell. You gain +1 caster level and max caster level with Light/Alignment spells.
• Dark Spellbook III: Req Cleric 18: Your Cleric spellbook gains Power Word: Stun as a Level 8 spell. You gain +1 caster level and max caster level with Negative Energy spells.

Core F: Multiselector:

• Priest of Endless Light: Req Cleric 20 and Emissary of Light: Your mastery over Light has granted you impossible power. +4 Wisdom, +2 to all Saving Throws, and +10 Light/Alignment spellpower and positive healing amp. You gain +1 caster level and max caster level with Light/Alignment spells and +1 evocation DCs.
• Deacon of Endless Darkness: Req Cleric 20 and Emissary of Darkness: Your mastery over Darkness has granted you impossible power. +4 Wisdom, +2 to all Saving Throws, and +10 Negative spellpower and negative healing amp. You gain +1 caster level and max caster level with Negative Energy spells and +1 necromancy DCs.

the Progression on lamania is not what we are seeing here. the whole concept of taking both light and dark cores is interesting in spirit, but I dont see how it is ever going to play well or make sense from an enhancement standpoint. and currently its just plain broken and you cnnot take cores 5/6 if you want to stay on a pure path.

Tier 1:

• Nimbus of Light vs Inflict Light Wounds SLA
• Defense of the Heart: +2/4/6 PRR
• Divine Smiting I: +2% Light, Negative, and Alignment Spell Critical Chance
• Defense of the Soul: +2/4/6 MRR
• Spell Points: +30/60/100 Maximum Spell Points

this is a pretty basic tier 1. PRR and MRR will be used for filler later in the tree as we try to progress.

Tier 2:

• Spell Penetration: +1/2/3 Spell Penetration
• Improved Metamagic: Empower/Enlarge/Maximize/Quicken
• Divine Smiting II: +2% Light, Negative, and Alignment Spell Critical Chance
• Shield of Dusk and Dawn: When struck, attackers are dealt 1/2/3d6 Light and Negative damage, scaling with your spellpower. Rank 3: When enemies critically hit you, they are Blinded for 2 seconds with no save.
• Light and Dark: Whenever you cast a Light, Alignment or Negative spell, you gain +3 to your Negative, Light, and Alignment Spell Power for 6 seconds. This stacks up to 3/6/10 times.

this is a nuker tree yes? Spell Penn is not a enhancement most nukers will use.

Tier 3:

• Soundburst vs Inflict Light Wounds, Mass
• Improved Metamagic: Empower/Enlarge/Maximize/Quicken
• Divine Smiting III: +2% Light, Negative, and Alignment Spell Critical Chance
• Multiselector:
  
  • Disciple of Dusk: You gain +5/10/15 Negative Healing Amplification. Rank 3: +5 Negative Spellpower
  • Disciple of Dawn: You gain +5/10/15 Positive Healing Amplification. Rank 3: +5 Light and Alignment Spellpower
• +1 Wisdom

Soundburst? Thematically confusing SLA here. Just does not make sense. Why does light get a L2 Spell and Dark gets a Level 5? What does SOundburst have to do with being a light caster?

Tier 4:

• Sun Bolt vs Inflict Serious Wounds SLA
• Improved Metamagic: Heighten
• Divine Smiting IV: +2% Light, Negative, and Alignment Spell Critical Chance
• Multiselector: (select what you did not select in Tier 3)
  
  • Disciple of Dusk: You gain +5/10/15 Negative Healing Amplification. Rank 3: +5 Negative Spellpower
  • Disciple of Dawn: You gain +5/10/15 Positive Healing Amplification. Rank 3: +5 Light and Alignment Spellpower
• +1 Wisdom

OK, Light side goes back to a Light SLA. good... but now Dark gets a lower level Dark spell than the Tier 3?

And why would we want to take the second option of the Disciple Enhancements? i guess were back to Light and Dark balancing? Come of folks. thats Not going to be a thing. ever. please abandon that line of thinking.

Tier 5:

• Multiselector:
  
  • Divine Wrath SLA
  • Harm SLA
• Multiselector:
  
  • Transcend Light: Req having only Emissary of Light cores. You now gain the Spellbook spells of the Path of Darkness.
  • Transcend Darkness: Req having only Emissary of Darkness cores: You now gain the Spellbook spells of the Path of Light.
  • Bring Balance: req having both Light and Dark cores: The Word of Balance spell is added to your Spellbook at level 7. (yes, both light and dark cores... this tree is funky fresh)
• Divine Smiting V: +2% Light, Negative, and Alignment Spell Critical Chance
• Condemnation: +5% Light, Negative, and Alignment Spell Critical Damage
• Divine Empowerment: +1 DCs with Evocation and Necromancy spells

Divine Wrath is a great spell and Tier 5 Worth (If anyone saw my pre edit, I thougt it said "Orders Wrath" at first)

Harm is disappointing for dark side. it just cannot do enough damage to be a tier 5 SLA. Ya know what might make Harm an interesting spell? First, allow Meta's.. Second Add a DOT to it....

Its also Time for "Empower Healing" to work with Negative and even Repair spells. Whether you heal with Positive, Negate or repair... Its still "Healing"

Multiselector.... Very confused I dont see people taking this. we focus on our spells. getting a bunch of spell we are weak casting isnt tier 5 worth. And word of Balance isnt that good tobe a tier 5 enhancement.

Diving Empowerment should be +2. Or 2 or even three steps

[adamr09]

The new archetype looks cool, but I really don't like the changes to DD. With one hand you add more build diversity with the archetype, but then with the other hand you remove build diversity in DD by shoehorning dps caster clerics to play either Death domain or Sun domain with the changes to SLA choices and the removal of spell power choices. My main is a fire cleric and these changes feel like an unnecessary nerf (no more fire/universal spell power, no more Holy Smite SLA, no more Flame Strike SLA, etc). Please do not "revamp" DD like this.

SLAs
"T3: Soundburst vs Inflict Wounds Light Mass" - A choice between two meh spells, and Soundburst doesn't even fit thematically. The current T3 choices are great (Searing Light vs Necrotic Ray). Sure, there's a double dip for Sun clerics in the Searing Light SLA, but just put them on separate cooldowns or provide a different bonus or SLA in the Sun Domain. Nobody will really be using Soundburst or Inflict Wounds Light Mass past level 10 or so, whereas the previous 2 choices were still viable in the late game.

"T4: Sun Bolt vs Inflict Serious Wounds SLA" - Again, neither are very exciting. We already get Sun Bolt as a spell in the spellbook from this tree, and the previous SLA choices were much more interesting. You're already nerfing Holy Smite damage, so why the double slap by removing the SLA as well? As for the negative side, Negative Energy Burst was a nice addition previously. You add Negative healing amp into this tree now, but remove one of the great SLAs here that allowed for negative healing. We still have Inflict Wounds Mass spells I guess, but again those are pretty meh and require an enemy target to cast from what I remember (although maybe that has since changed).

"T5: Divine Wrath SLA vs Harm SLA" - Not sure how I feel about this one. Probably worse for negative clerics than the previous choice since it's single target and TOUCH range and can't even kill. For light clerics, maybe barely an improvement as well? Lower damage dice but no max caster level, and it heals but it is harder to target as it has a seemingly longer delay before impact. Hopefully the cooldown isn't longer than the Flame Strike SLA cooldown. Maybe this is better for most clerics, but Flame Strike seems very iconic for the cleric class.


Spell Power
Removing the spell power selectors (light/negative/universal, fire/force/universal) reduces build diversity as this was a great place for other element domains to get spell power for that element. Can we try to reincorporate them somehow? Maybe something like:

"Core A: Multiselector:
- Emissary of Light: Req Cleric 1, antireq Emissary of Darkness: You have chosen Light as your path. For each Core Ability you take in this tree, you gain +5 Light, Alignment , and Fire Spellpower.
- Emissary of Darkness: Req Cleric 1, antireq Emissary of Light: You have chosen Darkness as your path. For each Core Ability you take in this tree, you gain +5 Negative , Cold, and Force spellpower."

(and do the same with the other places that add spell power)

Adding Fire/Cold/Force spell power (and crit chance if you're feeling fancy) will allow for at least some synergy with other domains, and it also helps with synergy in Epic Destinies like Exalted Angel (fire/light) and Magus of the Eclipse (negative/cold/force).



I think that these changes to DD will hurt build diversity overall, and the SLA choices just aren't as good or as interesting. Cleric is a class that can allow for a lot of interesting builds and synergies through its domains, but these changes make it even harder to choose any domain other than Sun/Death for caster dps (which Sun domain is already the main choice for most).

[Gregen]

Removing the spell power selectors (light/negative/universal, fire/force/universal) reduces build diversity as this was a great place for other element domains to get spell power for that element. Can we try to reincorporate them somehow?

I agree. Divine Disciple was a good tree to get a little extra fire, force, and positive spellpower and crit. That was the main reason I had put points in the tree. This change will gut the tree from me. Any chance we could get a selector to get universal power and crit back? At a reduced value compared to specific elements like it already is?

Also do we really have to get rid of Divine Vitality? I was hoping to see it improved, not removed entirely.

[Llanlarfven]

Greetings, for those that don't know me yet, my name is Silas "intentionally left blank" Greenback and I levelled up to the rank of Vexatious Complainer just now having never posted on this or any other forum before.

A few years ago, after the 'fortitude saves' issue at end-game for necro-clerics, I switched to a Fire Domain cleric. My Guild supported me through this difficult period, enduring long hours of tedious venting. It comes then, as an enormous disappointment that, having made the switch, fire is to be removed from the Divine Disciple enhancement tree. The addition of the "Dark Apostate" (I think you actually mean Light Apostate or Dark Apostle -- the noun here is appositional of dark) enhancement tree is of no consolation either. The best necromancy spells (now removed from Divine Disciple) haven't been placed into the new tree. The new tree's spells, the inflict wound series, scale disproportionally poorly because of the + 1 to damage per caster level. Far from "exploring tons of unused design space for our existing classes", this does two things, making:

1) an existing class, Fire Domain Cleric, virtually redundant -- forcing fire-based healing builds into the FvS class, and
2) an existing class, Death Domain Cleric, hilariously impotent.

Thank you for reading. I don't propose to post here ever again.

[lain5246]

Typed bonuses stack with untyped bonuses and the DA stuff is untyped - so yes, this stuff stacks with equipment.

i am sure on live there are similar bonuses with wraith and they do not stack.

[Impaqt]

Greetings, for those that don't know me yet, my name is Silas "intentionally left blank" Greenback and I levelled up to the rank of Vexatious Complainer just now having never posted on this or any other forum before.

A few years ago, after the 'fortitude saves' issue at end-game for necro-clerics, I switched to a Fire Domain cleric. My Guild supported me through this difficult period, enduring long hours of tedious venting. It comes then, as an enormous disappointment that, having made the switch, fire is to be removed from the Divine Disciple enhancement tree. The addition of the "Dark Apostate" (I think you actually mean Light Apostate or Dark Apostle -- the noun here is appositional of dark) enhancement tree is of no consolation either. The best necromancy spells (now removed from Divine Disciple) haven't been placed into the new tree. The new tree's spells, the inflict wound series, scale disproportionally poorly because of the + 1 to damage per caster level. Far from "exploring tons of unused design space for our existing classes", this does two things, making:

1) an existing class, Fire Domain Cleric, virtually redundant -- forcing fire-based healing builds into the FvS class, and
2) an existing class, Death Domain Cleric, hilariously impotent.

Thank you for reading. I don't propose to post here ever again.

I certainly agree that this is a big blow to Fire domain Clerics, but dont follow you on the death domain. Where is the loss?

Now is the time to provide feedback to the devs, its not too late to steer things back in the right direction.

[Theolin]

possible bug, I chose this option for a HTR for one of my toons, and then did a second HTR back to FVS and I cannot select spells on any leveling or after through the Character screen while being FVS.

[dlsidhe]

After looking at this a bit more, I have some concerns:

1. Are inflict wounds spells going to be changed to be self-targeting by default?
2. Dark Apostate needs either a turn undead based negative energy burst or death aura added to the spell book, especially if point (1) isn't addressed.
3. Divine Disciple needs a serious pass, as it looks a bit of a mess, to put it lightly.
4. The cores of DA are a little underwhelming. Spell penetration or DCs would be a nice touch.

[nobodynobody1426]

The new archetype looks cool, but I really don't like the changes to DD. With one hand you add more build diversity with the archetype, but then with the other hand you remove build diversity in DD by shoehorning dps caster clerics to play either Death domain or Sun domain with the changes to SLA choices and the removal of spell power choices. My main is a fire cleric and these changes feel like an unnecessary nerf (no more fire/universal spell power, no more Holy Smite SLA, no more Flame Strike SLA, etc). Please do not "revamp" DD like this.

SLAs
"T3: Soundburst vs Inflict Wounds Light Mass" - A choice between two meh spells, and Soundburst doesn't even fit thematically. The current T3 choices are great (Searing Light vs Necrotic Ray). Sure, there's a double dip for Sun clerics in the Searing Light SLA, but just put them on separate cooldowns or provide a different bonus or SLA in the Sun Domain. Nobody will really be using Soundburst or Inflict Wounds Light Mass past level 10 or so, whereas the previous 2 choices were still viable in the late game.

"T4: Sun Bolt vs Inflict Serious Wounds SLA" - Again, neither are very exciting. We already get Sun Bolt as a spell in the spellbook from this tree, and the previous SLA choices were much more interesting. You're already nerfing Holy Smite damage, so why the double slap by removing the SLA as well? As for the negative side, Negative Energy Burst was a nice addition previously. You add Negative healing amp into this tree now, but remove one of the great SLAs here that allowed for negative healing. We still have Inflict Wounds Mass spells I guess, but again those are pretty meh and require an enemy target to cast from what I remember (although maybe that has since changed).

"T5: Divine Wrath SLA vs Harm SLA" - Not sure how I feel about this one. Probably worse for negative clerics than the previous choice since it's single target and TOUCH range and can't even kill. For light clerics, maybe barely an improvement as well? Lower damage dice but no max caster level, and it heals but it is harder to target as it has a seemingly longer delay before impact. Hopefully the cooldown isn't longer than the Flame Strike SLA cooldown. Maybe this is better for most clerics, but Flame Strike seems very iconic for the cleric class.


Spell Power
Removing the spell power selectors (light/negative/universal, fire/force/universal) reduces build diversity as this was a great place for other element domains to get spell power for that element. Can we try to reincorporate them somehow? Maybe something like:

"Core A: Multiselector:
- Emissary of Light: Req Cleric 1, antireq Emissary of Darkness: You have chosen Light as your path. For each Core Ability you take in this tree, you gain +5 Light, Alignment , and Fire Spellpower.
- Emissary of Darkness: Req Cleric 1, antireq Emissary of Light: You have chosen Darkness as your path. For each Core Ability you take in this tree, you gain +5 Negative , Cold, and Force spellpower."

(and do the same with the other places that add spell power)

Adding Fire/Cold/Force spell power (and crit chance if you're feeling fancy) will allow for at least some synergy with other domains, and it also helps with synergy in Epic Destinies like Exalted Angel (fire/light) and Magus of the Eclipse (negative/cold/force).



I think that these changes to DD will hurt build diversity overall, and the SLA choices just aren't as good or as interesting. Cleric is a class that can allow for a lot of interesting builds and synergies through its domains, but these changes make it even harder to choose any domain other than Sun/Death for caster dps (which Sun domain is already the main choice for most).

I agree, I was thinking that there is a tree that does a whole "dual path" thing well, Druid with it's seasons. DD could borrow this idea and have an "Emissary of Light" / "Emissary of Darkness" toggle that all the other enhancements work off of. In light mode it's +Light/Alignment/Fire Spell Power / Spell Crit / Caster Level and in dark mode it's +Negative/Cold/Force instead. The SLA selection was a deliberate nerf to light DD as previously it was Searing Light / Holy Smite / Flamestrike. Divine Wrath is a poor selection as an SLA because the regular spell already has a 20s cooldown, the SLA will have something ridiculous while Flamestrike SLA was 12s. I think Lich is trying to force DD it only work with Sun Domain or Death Domain and ignoring it's compatibility with everything else.

Also if we're going to force DD clerics to only do Death/Sun, can we finally un-nerf Sunburst and Sunbeam to use level appropriate damage dice?

From update 48.4 update notes

The spell Sunbeam has had its damage dice increased to 1d6+7 per caster level (no max caster level, so it is lower than other spells of this type/level).

Same treatment was given to Sunburst at 1D6+4 per caster level. That is no longer an issue since the Epic Destiny update created Epic Knowledge at +1CL/MCL every 2 epic/legendary levels. This makes anything with an MCL above 20 redundant.

[Lynnabel]

Howdy friends, happy Thursday! I'm here to post some of our preliminary design changes! Note that all of this is subject to change, as are all things on the preview server.

Dark Apostate:

• Step 1: Fix bugs!
• Step 2: Fix more bugs!

Divine Disciple:

• Step 1: Re-add Fire Spellcasting support by boosting Warpriest. Warpriest already has Fire Spellcasting stuff in its cores, and shifting Fire fully to that tree provides an interesting incentive to diversify your primary tree as a caster. This means that Warpriest gains the following:
  
  • Warpriest now gets +1 Caster Level/Max Caster Level with Fire/Force spells in cores 12 and 18. (Since previously in DD these 2 caster levels were in the t5 and core 20, these are slightly earlier in the leveling process)
  • Warpriest's +5 Light Spellpower per core becomes +5 Universal Spellpower per core
• Step 2: Figure out a more equitable SLA situation:
  
  • This mostly means going back to the original DD SLA split with some small changes:
  • tier 1: Nimbus of Light, Inflict light wounds
  • tier 3: Searing Light, Necrotic Bolt
  • tier 4: Holy Smite, Unholy Blight (now they are mirrors of each other!)
  • tier 5: Heal, Harm
• Step 3: Get weird with it. DD has a unique core ability situation and we should lean into that more. With that in mind...
  
  • Benediction is now: Multiselector:
    
    • Unholy Benediction (antireq Light core 1): Unholy Blight now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment.
    • Unholy Benediction (antireq Dark Core 1): Holy Smite now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment
    • Balanced Benediction (req Light Core 1 and Dark Core 1): Chaos Hammer and Order's Wrath now deal either upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment

Thank you for the amazing feedback so far! If you have any further comments, questions, or suggestions, please feel free to post them here

[Aelonwy]

Howdy friends, happy Thursday! I'm here to post some of our preliminary design changes! Note that all of this is subject to change, as are all things on the preview server.

Dark Apostate:

• Step 1: Fix bugs!
• Step 2: Fix more bugs!

Divine Disciple:

• Step 1: Re-add Fire Spellcasting support by boosting Warpriest. Warpriest already has Fire Spellcasting stuff in its cores, and shifting Fire fully to that tree provides an interesting incentive to diversify your primary tree as a caster. This means that Warpriest gains the following:
  
  • Warpriest now gets +1 Caster Level/Max Caster Level with Fire/Force spells in cores 12 and 18. (Since previously in DD these 2 caster levels were in the t5 and core 20, these are slightly earlier in the leveling process)
  • Warpriest's +5 Light Spellpower per core becomes +5 Universal Spellpower per core
• Step 2: Figure out a more equitable SLA situation:
  
  • This mostly means going back to the original DD SLA split with some small changes:
  • tier 1: Nimbus of Light, Inflict light wounds
  • tier 3: Searing Light, Necrotic Bolt
  • tier 4: Holy Smite, Unholy Blight (now they are mirrors of each other!)
  • tier 5: Heal, Harm
• Step 3: Get weird with it. DD has a unique core ability situation and we should lean into that more. With that in mind...
  
  • Benediction is now: Multiselector:
    
    • Unholy Benediction (antireq Light core 1): Unholy Blight now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment.
    • Unholy Benediction (antireq Dark Core 1): Holy Smite now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment
    • Balanced Benediction (req Light Core 1 and Dark Core 1): Chaos Hammer and Order's Wrath now deal either upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment

Thank you for the amazing feedback so far! If you have any further comments, questions, or suggestions, please feel free to post them here

I'm actually okay with the direction you are going here... but I also agree with Nobody that heal/harm feel misplaced now because heal is a Radiant Servant thing and it belongs in Radiant Servant, ergo Harm belongs in Dark Apostate tree as the tree replacing Radiant Servant. I liked Divine Wrath, its too bad you don't have the time or option to make a Dark Wrath version that deals Evil Dmg + Negative Healing. Could look really awesome too with just a graphic color change.

[droid327]

Dark Apostate:

• Step 1: Fix bugs!
• Step 2: Fix more bugs!

Let me just reiterate my feedback on DD because I think this is the best of the three Archetypes, but also has the potential to fall the flattest, for the most preventable reasons...

As I see it, there are 3 build-defining traits of the Apostate archetype:

1) Melee damage via the Evil imbue

2) Undead immunities with Incorp/Conceal bonuses (Neg healing is minor; Clerics self-heal just fine already, unlike non-PM Wizards)

3) AOE damage via Pray for Mercy and the SLAs


The first one is fine, an imbue is always handy and its a well-worn design element, though it really leans the tree a lot closer towards "melee tree" status

The second is nice, but not something you build around, particularly given Incorp/Conceal penalties in higher skulls

The third is really what's going to make or break the build. And right now, 1d6/clvl is in "break" territory. I really think there needs to be more scaling on this, and not just "doubled with Curse". It needs increased die somewhere. You cant meta the damage (unlike other nuker SLAs). Alignment spellpower is harder to gear for. Its going to do F-all damage in late Heroic and into Epic and Legendary, which means the most crucial build-defining trait of this Archetype is, basically, a noob trap.

I think simply giving its damage +2 in T4, +2 in T5, +2 in Core 5, +2 in Core 6 would be all the difference - 1d6+8 per clvl at L20 for a pure 20 Apostate seems like right where you'd want it balance-wise.

[Impaqt]

I'll have more feedback later, but wanted to say this quick.

When enhancements were revamped, as well as epic destinies, we were told the devs understood that taking enhancements as fillers was extremely frustrating to the player base.

Shifting fire spell power into a melee tree is going to force people to do just this again.

There are far too many examples is this creeping back into various enhancement trees and epic destinies(looking at you shadow dancer).

There seems to be a very wide disconnect between players and devs right now..... I really hope we can reel this in before it goes live.

[Zuldar]

Howdy friends, happy Thursday! I'm here to post some of our preliminary design changes! Note that all of this is subject to change, as are all things on the preview server.

Dark Apostate:

• Step 1: Fix bugs!
• Step 2: Fix more bugs!

Divine Disciple:

• Step 1: Re-add Fire Spellcasting support by boosting Warpriest. Warpriest already has Fire Spellcasting stuff in its cores, and shifting Fire fully to that tree provides an interesting incentive to diversify your primary tree as a caster. This means that Warpriest gains the following:
  
  • Warpriest now gets +1 Caster Level/Max Caster Level with Fire/Force spells in cores 12 and 18. (Since previously in DD these 2 caster levels were in the t5 and core 20, these are slightly earlier in the leveling process)
  • Warpriest's +5 Light Spellpower per core becomes +5 Universal Spellpower per core
• Step 2: Figure out a more equitable SLA situation:
  
  • This mostly means going back to the original DD SLA split with some small changes:
  • tier 1: Nimbus of Light, Inflict light wounds
  • tier 3: Searing Light, Necrotic Bolt
  • tier 4: Holy Smite, Unholy Blight (now they are mirrors of each other!)
  • tier 5: Heal, Harm
• Step 3: Get weird with it. DD has a unique core ability situation and we should lean into that more. With that in mind...
  
  • Benediction is now: Multiselector:
    
    • Unholy Benediction (antireq Light core 1): Unholy Blight now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment.
    • Unholy Benediction (antireq Dark Core 1): Holy Smite now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment
    • Balanced Benediction (req Light Core 1 and Dark Core 1): Chaos Hammer and Order's Wrath now deal either upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment

Thank you for the amazing feedback so far! If you have any further comments, questions, or suggestions, please feel free to post them here

As long as you're tweaking warpriest can you do something about divine vessel? The damage is incredibly low for something that is so hard to charge, needing 25 charges that decay very rapidly between fights.

[Lynnabel]

I'm actually okay with the direction you are going here... but I also agree with Nobody that heal/harm feel misplaced now because heal is a Radiant Servant thing and it belongs in Radiant Servant, ergo Harm belongs in Dark Apostate tree as the tree replacing Radiant Servant. I liked Divine Wrath, its too bad you don't have the time or option to make a Dark Wrath version that deals Evil Dmg + Negative Healing. Could look really awesome too with just a graphic color change.

Ya, to me making Warpriest all about Fire makes sense since, for one, the tree is very much aesthetically fire-based (red, flames in its icons, etc) but also gave more Fire Spellpower than DD ever did. Leaning harder into that gives it a cool identity as the place to go for Cleric's Fiery might. I think the only thing it's missing is me adding 2% Fire Spellcrit up the central weapon line and it should all work out. That means that Fire clerics actually end up with more Spellcrit than before, and comperable Fire Spellpower.

You're definitely not wrong about the t5 SLA selection. I'm actually now leaning towards offering Order's Wrath versus Chaos Hammer to go along with the split Benediction choice. It would mean you'd need to plan your alignment out carefully but would mean that a Chaotic Good Cleric would actually want different DD choices than a Lawful Neutral one, which I find neato. Or, even cooler, maybe offer all 4 of those spells in both t4 and t5, so you'd end up with 2 picks from the pool of 4.

[Lotoc]

[*][*]Benediction is now: Multiselector:

• Unholy Benediction (antireq Light core 1): Unholy Blight now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment.
• Unholy Benediction (antireq Dark Core 1): Holy Smite now deals its upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment
• Balanced Benediction (req Light Core 1 and Dark Core 1): Chaos Hammer and Order's Wrath now deal either upgraded damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment

Question regarding these spells doing upgraded damage to all enemies
These alignment aoes all have 3 tiers of damage, Neutral, Opposed and Opposed Outsider
Is it going to do the opposed outsider or just opposed alignment damage? Also will the secondary effects, Daze, blind etc. apply regardless of alignment or just the damage?

[nobodynobody1426]

Ya, to me making Warpriest all about Fire makes sense since, for one, the tree is very much aesthetically fire-based (red, flames in its icons, etc) but also gave more Fire Spellpower than DD ever did. Leaning harder into that gives it a cool identity as the place to go for Cleric's Fiery might. I think the only thing it's missing is me adding 2% Fire Spellcrit up the central weapon line and it should all work out. That means that Fire clerics actually end up with more Spellcrit than before, and comperable Fire Spellpower.

You're definitely not wrong about the t5 SLA selection. I'm actually now leaning towards offering Order's Wrath versus Chaos Hammer to go along with the split Benediction choice. It would mean you'd need to plan your alignment out carefully but would mean that a Chaotic Good Cleric would actually want different DD choices than a Lawful Neutral one, which I find neato. Or, even cooler, maybe offer all 4 of those spells in both t4 and t5, so you'd end up with 2 picks from the pool of 4.

Good god no ...

Warpriest has absolutely nothing to do with fire, it's a melee tree with has extra support options for healing on it.

Go take a look at DD and look at the multi-selectors, the ones that let you put +universal spellpower / universal spell crit. Those would give bonus's to Light/Alignment/Fire/Force/Positive, it wasn't as good as Favored Soul or Druid, but it worked. You can get 42 fire spellpower, 4% fire spell crit and +2 CL/MCL along with the bonus's for the light spells and access to SLAs. DPS caster cleric use's fire as it's primary damage type because that's the only strong higher level AoE spells / abilities, light is secondary for when fire doesn't work, force is last when nothing else works.


You do this and you kill fire domain and DPS caster cleric period. Tell us what spells and epic abilities we are supposed to use that deal light damage? You guys just nerfed the only heroic spells that dealt decent damage using light spellpower / crit / caster levels. Sunburst / Sunbeam are still both at reduced power level from U48.4, those would be the only way to introduce acceptable light damage into Cleric.

[droid327]

I'm actually now leaning towards offering Order's Wrath versus Chaos Hammer to go along with the split Benediction choice.

Are all 4 of the Alignment spells becoming AOE like Holy Smite? That was the biggest reason it was so popular - obviously, an AOE nuke is far more desirable than a single-target one, especially when the damage die are the same.

Or at least Unholy Blight - it's a very interesting idea if you get a choice of one AOE spell with no alignment penalties (Smite or Blight) that corresponds to the SLA choices in DD, and then an additional single-target spell (Hammer or Wrath) for boss/champ/reaper burst damage, even if its not an SLA option

Will just say, also consider the opportunity cost of slotting those spells. They're all L4, which is also competing with Divine Power, FOM, and DW