Update 56 Preview 1: Dark Apostate Archetype

[Khurse]

That's by design. You can take a mix of light and dark cores or go a single path. The more you take of a 2nd path in the cores, the more it locks you out of higher level cores.

Ahh.. I misunderstood then. Thanks!

Still seems weird to be jumping back and forth, and I can't find the ability that gives Power Word Stun , so I can't take the final core...

[soulner]

i realy like this tree but i think a death aura or great death aura should be added to the tree compreing to the RS Positive Energy Aura
you can add to the last core like the wizred greater death aura or some were in tier five maybe with shadows of death or insted but i think it should be obtnibule spell for this path/
thank you.

[tarrith_dourden]

[QUOTE=Lynnabel;6532225]Howdy all! Please be sure to check out both the Producer's Letter and the Archetype Overview page before diving in here

Dark Apostate is a Cleric Archetype.

Well I suppose you better revisit Pale Masters tree now, because PM's don't even get an Negative Energy Burst and Necrotic Ray SLA. Can I also suggest being able to raise temporary undead from dead monsters as a Necromancer tree?

Cool change though.

TD

PS: Maybe Dark Apostate is not the best name for it, I've already heard it called Dark Prostate, which really doesn't sound good :P

[tarrith_dourden]

i realy like this tree but i think a death aura or great death aura should be added to the tree compreing to the RS Positive Energy Aura
you can add to the last core like the wizred greater death aura or some were in tier five maybe with shadows of death or insted but i think it should be obtnibule spell for this path/
thank you.

To tell you the truth LDA and DA are near useless, especially in Reaper, due to not being able to put meta's on them. If they made them a cleric SLA no one would ever run a Wizard PM.

Currently I run a Wiz PM with 5 Dark Cleric just for the Neg Energy Burst that I can meta.

TD.

[Targal]

To write more Harm SLA vs Divine wrath SLA

Divine wrath
-AoE
-light dmg
-heals bonus
-no MCL

Harm
-single
-neg type damage
-can heal self... well.
-15 MCL
-touch ranged
-no damage metamagic allowed


Divine wrath is more effective and I believe taking Divine wrath is more even better than taking Harm even if you're dark cleric.
So, I think it should be something like 2x damage against living creature or no max caster level, bla bla.

[Targal]

Is Divine Vitalitt gone? It was somewhat useful to take when you have no place for expanding turn attmepts. I think multiselect for Divine Vitality from Spell Points thing would work.

[Aaabbbcccddd]

To tell you the truth LDA and DA are near useless, especially in Reaper, due to not being able to put meta's on them. If they made them a cleric SLA no one would ever run a Wizard PM.

Currently I run a Wiz PM with 5 Dark Cleric just for the Neg Energy Burst that I can meta.

TD.

That is not true at least for up to r6. My friend played a palemaster eldritch knight one or two lives ago and he could pretty much solo r6 with his sustain. Also they don't have to make it an sla they could add it to the Dark Apostate spell list.

But as I said I don't need death auras I just dont want negativ energy burst to go.

[Sorccadin]

The inclusion of WIS to hit and damage is super cool. Could be very intersting for clerics, esp. if the Warpriest Trance would become a multiselector for Divine Might/ Divine Will - i´d run a melee undead cleric

[Garix]

DD Cores are defiantly wonky. Can't take the final Priest of Endless Night core as the prerequisite Light Spellbook III: Sunburst is missing completely. Also as noted earlier all the SLA's (light ones at least) are still showing as per live.

Lvl 26 Aasimar Cleric

EDIT: Not sure I see the point of being able to take Positive and negative Healing Amp

[Targal]

Hmm... I checked other cleric stuff after I wrote my review, I am still not sure about soundburst, but I think you can replace Good domain's 5 lvl spell as Holy Smite like other standards, and replace soundburst SLA into Deific Vengence or Searing Light instead.

[Caarb]

Attack and Damage mods are becoming too limiting to build choices. I think a better solution is to allow anyone to choose their attack and damage mods as either a selectable feat or reasonable low level enhancements in a universal tree (harper agent would be my choice change int to multi-selectors). If you did that I would remove the Wis to hit and damage from the tree.

I also dont like the hybrid nature of the tree - it should be analogous to Radiant Servant with Death Aura instead of healing Aura at T5. Make a Dark version of Warpriest for Melee.

[ZER0DIVISION]

Harm SLA in T5 DD doesn't make much sense. Harm has been left in the dust ever since all the inflict wound spells got their damage beefed up last year. It's touch range, single target, and inferior to inflict spells for both damaging and healing undead. Why would you ever use it?

Either way, I'm not sure why the Divine Disciple had to be 'revamped'. As it currently sits on Live, it would support Dark Apostate quite well, and I feel like it currently has better options for both light and dark casters. This version on Lamannia seems like a downgrade for both.

[NemesisAlien]

Why there is no immune to light damage like PM? PM gets the option for being immune to light.

[Khurse]

That's by design. You can take a mix of light and dark cores or go a single path. The more you take of a 2nd path in the cores, the more it locks you out of higher level cores.

Actually looking at it again, I don't think it is.

Dark Cores 2 and 5 are both in the same spot, so you actually can't take Dark Core 5 .

As for Healing, it doesn't self Heal like a PM, I'd argue it's not supposed to, but self Heals as well as a non RS Cleric.

Admittedly I haven't seen anyone play a non RS Cleric in ages, as Clerics are generally just worse FvS.

But with so much of it's damage focused on the Negative, it really does need (at a minimum) PM's Unholy Avatar, or better yet a Negative Energy Immunity bypass.

[SpardaX]

Taking levels in this class makes the game think that Alchemist levels are also this class during level up. It doesn't seem to have an effect outside of level up, but if for example, you take lv 1 Cleric DA and the game gives you all the lv 1 Cleric spells as it should, if you then take lv 1 in Alchemist, the game offers you no spells. Because it thinks you have them all and so can't select any additional spells. Because the game thinks you're leveling up as Cleric DA again.

Edit: It also seems to think I'm leveling up as Cleric DA when I take an epic level, and when I take a legendary level. I think it just thinks that for a lot of classes for some reason.

[SpardaX]

Harm SLA in T5 DD doesn't make much sense. Harm has been left in the dust ever since all the inflict wound spells got their damage beefed up last year. It's touch range, single target, and inferior to inflict spells for both damaging and healing undead. Why would you ever use it?

Either way, I'm not sure why the Divine Disciple had to be 'revamped'. As it currently sits on Live, it would support Dark Apostate quite well, and I feel like it currently has better options for both light and dark casters. This version on Lamannia seems like a downgrade for both.

Inflict spells got upgraded for attack spells, but for the purposes of healing undead allies, the healing damage they do was supposed to not be boosted. For the purposes of healing allies, both cure and inflict spells should be identical. And so Harm is Heal. Which, if you tie that with the Undead form in Apostle, means Harm is probably there as a self heal SLA.

If Inflict spells are healing undead allies for the same amount that they damage enemies, that would be a bug.

Also, I could be wrong, but I think the same time that Inflict got damage against enemies buffed, I believe Harm stopped being a touch spell to be more in line with the rest of the cure / inflict / heal spells.

[scut207]

DD was a horrible tree, but way to find a way to actually nerf the few good things it had lol. Mostly people just took it on a blaster cleric because what ELSE would you take?

It's ridiculous/hilarious to nerf holy smite and then also remove it from DD. Like other people have pointed out, the loss of fire support is crazy too. I don't think people understand what's good/useful and what's not. 25% incorporeal is a neat idea, but like people have pointed out, pointless in reaper. 25% concealment is something you should get at lv 6 or 12 core, not 20.

Most of the SLAs in DD are bad choices. Harm as a t5? Put that in the core line instead of concealment. It's garbage as an offensive spell so it's just a self-heal. It's not something you spam a lot so it doesn't need to be an sla. Divine wrath is a strong spell but probably has a long CD.


The archetype seems interesting, but I also think it's weird to mix in caster and weapon stuff. It just means that it's only going to get half the bonus a real tree would've given. If I go front row negative dice and cursing, I'm not going to be built for dcs/spellpower so the spell pen/crit chance aren't going to mean much. If I'm a caster I'm not going to have improved crit and all the style feats to be dps. It's like an ED, going to have a ton of points spent in useless **** just to unlock higher tiers.

Strong Agree, you've captured most of it. The removal of NEB in tier 4 and Inflict Moderate / FlameStrike SLA in tier 5 is a huge nerf to crowd clearing.

> 95% of time in dungeons spent clearing trash. We already have high damage single target SLAs in death domain (for heroics at least).

Keep the NEB Keep the IMWM(or move these to the apostate in lieu of single target nonsense ) and this becomes something worthy of playing.

Having to spend a turn undead to AoE effectively is pretty limiting unless they add a enhancement to return turn undead counters higher T5 or something...

Still no way to deal with construct effectively but thats a fine trade off.

[tarrith_dourden]

FOUND A BUG.

I made a toon that was a Dark Apostle, when I used a +20 heart of wood it converted me to a Radiant Servant.
Also Neg Energy Burst gets blocked when a target is selected and something gets between you like a tree. I can facing the mob at a distance and the NEB does go off, but if a tree is between you and that target...nope, no NEB. This also affects the 5th teir Dark Apostate harm spell.

TD

Confirmed: The Life-Shaper doesn't know what a Dark Apostle is.

[Targal]

This one only increases 1 save instead of 2 saves

[ZER0DIVISION]

Inflict spells got upgraded for attack spells, but for the purposes of healing undead allies, the healing damage they do was supposed to not be boosted. For the purposes of healing, both cure and inflict spells should be identical. And so Harm is Heal. Which, if you tie that with the Undead form in Apostle, means Harm is probably there as a self heal SLA.

Ah yes, that's right. Only the damage portions were buffed up, so you would take it as a heal. I still don't feel like it matches Divine Wrath SLA, which heals and damages in AoE, but Dark Apostate is going to have plenty of damage to begin with, so maybe that's by design.