Lamannia Character Bank Update Feedback

[Elfishski]

Creating a specific thread to gather your feedback on the updated Character Bank changes seen now on Lamannia. From the notes:

Character Bank Update

• Character Bank UI has been updated with new functionality and performance improvements! You will begin with the same amount of Character Bank space that you had on your account before the release

I won't have a chance to look on Lamannia for myself, but I've looked at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APkTOj-MAS0 and just wanted to note that it's fantastic to see progress on banking!

• This is an IMPROVEMENT on the status quo.
• This is still a few steps away from being an excellent experience.

Issues (ignoring minor bugs like capacity display that can presumably be resolved and assuming it's all rigorously tested to avoid either lost items or rampant duping bugs):

1. Searching account-wide is still a disaster, and in some ways made worse by this - if you sort items by tag then when you want to find something you have to look through each individual tag on each individual character - agony even with improved filtering and searching
2. This doesn't help with finding things in the black hole that is the crafting storage
3. The expanded UI means the screen is cluttered with big overlapping boxes (bad on a high res monitor, I can imagine unusable playing at minimum res)

Suggested changes that I hope would be feasible:

1. Add an 'All tabs' tab as well as the Main and custom tabs that just displays everything at once
2. Unify all the banks into one box, so the sections across the top go... "All locations", "Shared account bank", "Character bank", "Reincarnation cache", "Crafting storage"
3. "All locations" displays everything from Shared bank + Character bank + Reincarnation cache (with either a color scheme for rows or a little icon to the side to show where they actually are - and ideally allow that location to be changed with a little dropdown on the icon if possible) - now finding items is a breeze wherever they are if you go to "All locations" on the top and "All tabs" on the right!
4. Dropping an item into the "all locations" tab would default to crafting storage if possible, then shared bank, then character bank
5. Dramatically scale up the amount of shared bank space for sale to reduce the need for mules for the masses and masses of BTA items, as well as selling incremental additional character bank space
6. Maintain the tag of an item so it keeps that tab when you move it between bank locations or characters or when you TR (but drop the tag when another player acquires it through trade or selling) [may already be the case?]

Bonus extra changes that may be less technically feasible:

1. Add a filter option for set bonus as well as slot? Set bonuses are such a big part of the game now and often what I'm looking for is the rest of a set.
2. Apply the same tab system for crafting storage, but manually tagging and arranging thousands of these would be a nightmare so I suggest applying default tags to all items based on whichever crafting system they belong to. I don't know how else anyone would sort these?
3. Replace the Guild chests with a Guild bank of equal and/or greater total capacity including cargo vault chests and add that to the tabs above (possibly as a UI option in settings: I have a small guild with a few close friends and this would be nice, others in big guilds might not want to accidentally risk dropping a cool unbound item in their guild bank)

[gravisrs]

PROTIP for the collectables (I hole Lynn is reading this):

Please make collectables ML:1/6/11/16/21/26 for each tier - it won't affect turning them in, or use in CC recipies, but allows to introduce ML filtering in crafting storage to sort them out. Similar thing for crafting mats (set ML as the minimum craftable items level for those, eg heroic Shroud mats ML:11, Thunder forged ML:22 etc)

Also it would be super QOL change for crafters if each collectable had a 3 letters description in its name describing rarity+tier+category (order of those 3 to be brainstormed to cover AH search variations)

Eg "Chipped Bone Talisman C4C" means Common, tier 4, Cultural
Eg "Scarlett Cryptmoss R5N" means Rare, tier 5, Natural

Is there a particular reason why we can't get more character and bank slots than the current maximum?

I'm sure you'll be able to buy those for DDO points in the future.

[Sorccadin]

So checking this out it seems promising.

Having 8 Tabs with 100+ Space seems really good to me. Now, if thats not intended, that would suck. Generally speaking most long term players easily have 10+ Mules with 80+ items each. What i would like to see is a bit more bank space and a "emty to bank" button on the TR cash (didnt have one, didnt have the time to look at it).

While we now can sort stuff inside the bank, the TR system will kill all work the second you TR and place everything inside the cash. I dont think the new bank will help in terms of sorting items for characters that TR often. But it does seem like inventory problem can be lessened and perhaps be removed entirely. A higher maximum of items per tabs would also be very cool - that way the nessassity for mules and constant log out shenanigans gets resolved. I cant name a single player enjoying checking 10 mules for 1 hour just to not find the item their looking for.

Seeing that we have a search bar and hearing the same is true for TR cash gives me hope for this. I still hope a little more work is put in for everyone to feel good about aquiring all the items - i mean, its a bank. It should have quite the high limit of storage and mule banking mostly is just annoying for everyone involved.

[Sqrlmonger]

So checking this out it seems promising.

Having 8 Tabs with 100+ Space seems really good to me. Now, if thats not intended, that would suck. Generally speaking most long term players easily have 10+ Mules with 80+ items each. What i would like to see is a bit more bank space and a "emty to bank" button on the TR cash (didnt have one, didnt have the time to look at it).

While we now can sort stuff inside the bank, the TR system will kill all work the second you TR and place everything inside the cash. I dont think the new bank will help in terms of sorting items for characters that TR often. But it does seem like inventory problem can be lessened and perhaps be removed entirely. A higher maximum of items per tabs would also be very cool - that way the nessassity for mules and constant log out shenanigans gets resolved. I cant name a single player enjoying checking 10 mules for 1 hour just to not find the item their looking for.

Seeing that we have a search bar and hearing the same is true for TR cash gives me hope for this. I still hope a little more work is put in for everyone to feel good about aquiring all the items - i mean, its a bank. It should have quite the high limit of storage and mule banking mostly is just annoying for everyone involved.

I don't think you actually have 8 tabs with 100 each. I tested in my bank by going 1 item short of maxing out my overall slots in just "Main" and 1 item in a different tab. It gave me "bank full" error messages when trying to add more at that point to either tab.

[Cordovan]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

[ahpook]

I installed the Lam client to test out the new bank and mouse look changes.

On the bank changes I was concerned by the reports of tabs. I don't want to manage my stuff by looking around between tabs like we do now. But it seems that breaking out into tabs is optional and one can chose not to use the tabs if they don't want to. I for one do not want to bother with them and I am happy to use the filtering to get a subset of my bank rather than managing the organization manually with tabs. (At least I hope the tabs are optional and that they won’t be required once we get above 100 capacity.)

In fact, I would prefer it if the tabs were changed to instead of being "buckets" were merely predefined filters that would limit what one saw from the entire bank. Let the system worry about organizing rather than making me drop into the correct tab. I don't want to have to swap to the correct tab when depositing and risk having something mis-categorized and hard to find. If you are leaving the manual organization by tab, it would at least be nice if MAIN included everything in all tabs so when something does get misplaced you don't have to go through each tab.

I would like to see the filtering also include non-gear and have options for potions, scrolls, augments, etc. Or at the very least one choice under slots for everything not covered by the current slot selection. There is no easy way to see all one’s potions in the bank. The slots drop down could be bigger to minimize the need to scroll to use it. That makes the filtering more awkward than necessary.

I should add a big thanks for applying the new bank filtering to the Reincarnation Cache. I certainly won't mind the cache now that I can filter it by level and search it.

A button to clear the filters would be helpful so you can reset in 1 click. Clearing the level filters is especially awkward as you must select the editor, clear the current value and type in a new value and hit enter. To clear both lower and upper bounds is tedious.

The bottom of the bank window indicates paging. I hope that we won't be seeing any paging but if there is paging, I would expect the filtering will work across all pages. I would not expect the need for pages until we have banks with more than a few hundred slots.

I would not mind opening each bank window individually rather than getting all 3. With the speed improvements this might not be as big an issue as it is on live. However, it would still be nice to not lose the screen real estate to bank windows that you are not using. If the ability to close each independently remains that would also minimize this concern.

I cannot currently seem to move from the character bank to the shared bank directly. It seems that I need to move it my inventory first. I assume that this is a temporary issue. I would like a method to skip drag and drop all together to get stuff in the bank. We can double click a bank item to move it to our inventory, but it would be nice to also have a button or mechanism to move to the shared bank. Similar buttons to take items from the inventory into the bank would also be required. And if that could work on multiple items, that would be even better.

Overall, this is not the banking change I would have designed but it is close enough and so much better than what was there that I will happily give it thumbs up. Can we now get this interface into the inventory as well? I might use the user defined tabs if they were in the inventory.

[ahpook]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

One thing to note about this fact is that made it a little hard to give feedback as we can't see what happens when we can put 300 items into the bank. Are some of the things we are seeing now limited but the limit is equal to the current overall bank limit?

For example, I can put 100 items in the character bank. Is there a limit of items per tab such that, should I later get to a 300 item character bank, I will need to split my items across 3 tabs? Also, there is paging feedback in the bank UI but a single page can handle 100 items. Can it handle 300 or will I end up with 3 pages should I get that much space? (Note I was going to test this using the shared bank, assuming it behaved similar to character bank, but moving that many items from my bank and inventory to the shared bank was too tedious.)

[Sqrlmonger]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

Is there any plan to address the fact that it is FAR better to buy a new character slot than a new inventory/bank tab?

Character Slot + 45 minutes of work = 160 slots @ 625 Pts (iirc) = ~3.9 Pts per item slot
+20 Inventory or Bank slots = 20 Slots @ 595 Pts = 29.75 Pts per item slot

This makes character slots worth 3122 pts in inventory space alone, but you also get the added benefit of a character slot and the flexibility it provides beyond just being a mule.

Obviously there is additional hassle in managing these slots, but you're heavily incentivizing players to go through that hassle. In other words, you've designed the game to encourage players to be frustrated because any player who is budgeting their DDO pts (which is basically all of us) is going to look for the best pts deal and suffer through mule management. This is exactly what everyone is already doing and you are seeing posts about the inability to search multiple characters because of this.

The better solution, I think, would be to offer bank space for 3.9 pts per slot (or better) so that the incentive is to use whatever storage strategy works best for you without being forced to distribute items across multiple mules.

[Sorccadin]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

So, basicly this just looks fancy for now and doesnt aim at solving inventory issues? Dont get me wrong, i appritate nice things, im just concerend that inventory will remain in a near unplayable state (if you care about collecting raid gear + artifacts etc.).
I feel like thats a bad thing, by far inventory is what anoyes me the most in the entirety of DDO and im sure im not alone. I personally get so infuriated by searching my 200 mules every time i swap builds for the things im missing. Not to mention the half hour you have to spend to prepare to TR (which arguably is the main selling system of DDO).

Hopfully you are right and you guys can actually offer WAY more than what is availible at this time. I dont wanna one day get so annoyed by inconvinient storeage design that i quit a super unique and fun game.

[Boeregard-Sarlona]

Just checked out the changes on Lamannia.

Thank you for all of the work and time you have put in to making this happen. This was by far the update that I was most excited about since February.

Here are my initial thoughts:

1. Character Bank Maximum Storage: Many others have said it, but there needs to be an increase here. It is exciting to hear that it might be a possibility in the future, but was a total kill-joy to find out that it is not happening at launch. Would love a solution to character hopping in order to find that item I need for a new build on my main. Sadly this does not seem to address this...yet. (side note...PLEASE get rid of BTC!!! This would solve many TR cache and character bank woes)

2. Tab System: It's a cool idea, but I cant see myself using it. It would take forever to set up each life. DDO is designed to push people to play only one character many many lives. I never find myself staying on a life long enough to care about organizing my bank. IF the character bank persisted from life to life, I might see myself taking the time to set it up once. I definitely will not use it in the TR cache. It would just take too much time. When I start a new life I literally put eyes on every piece of gear in my tr cache and pull items out for that life and store them in my character bank. If I am not planning to use certain pieces that life, I leave them in there until I TR. That way I only have to interact with the TR Cache 2 times per life.

The other thing I am concerned about (especially if the max size is still 100) is misplacing something in an incorrect tab. I can see the tab system actually being more of a pain in this way that a boon. However the search function might help with this...

3. Search Function: This is really cool. I will definitely use it in both the character bank and the TR Cache. This might be the biggest win out of all of it.

4. Screen Space: Wow! The banks take up a ton of room now. Please figure out a way to make them smaller. I cannot have my inventory, character bank, tr bank and shared bank open on the same screen without them overlapping somewhere. I think the design could be a little more streamlined. Maybe make the tabs above the main container and get rid of that whole right side of the windows.

Edit* Just went to bed and could not stop thinking about a solution to the inventory nightmare. What if there were not a character bank or a tr cache at all. What if the account bank was all we needed? It could have thousands of slots like the ingredient bank and THEN the tab system and search functions would be brilliant! I recognize this is not helpful for BTC stuff, but if you made everything BTA then you could eliminate character bank and tr cache all together. Okay, time to sleep.

[mikarddo]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

Truth be told, I dont want more character bank space. I want less BtC clutter and I want less reason to use mules. So, the focus on character bank is misplaced.

[Dendrix]

Please provide a facility so I can save the contents of my banks to a fixed name text file in the following format to the my documents directory.
save all of them at once, or a button on each bank window allowing me to do it.

Servername - CharacterName - Personal Bank.txt
Servername - CharacterName - Shared Bank.txt
Servername - CharacterName - Reincarnation Bank.txt

[krimsonrane]

They should be equal for now at least.

This is my biggest issue with DDO right now. Nowhere near enough storage space.

Look at all the workarounds we use!
Hordes of mules who exist for no other reason than as a sub for storage.
TRd mules just to get the extra storage.
Putting items on AH then cancelling it to store the items in mail.
Using guild chests as personal storage. Some make one man guilds just for that purpose.

There are a few other ways but the point is that's how bad storage issues are here.
A new bank might look nice and be sleeker/easier to use but what we need right now is moar spaces. Lots moar spaces.

Anyone who simply can't TR because there's nowhere to put the cache items knows how it feels.

[Bluenoser]

Truth be told, I dont want more character bank space. I want less BtC clutter and I want less reason to use mules. So, the focus on character bank is misplaced.

^ This.

BTC reflects a very outdated attitude about the role of raids and raid loot in the game, and is especially odd now that BTC minor artifacts drop in regular quests and even explorer area chests. The system actively punishes players who raid a lot or who want to try different playstyles on their toons via TRing. Just get rid of BTC and the worst inventory capacity issues will disappear (and if people really hate logging mules to search for stuff, install the 3rd party software out there that allows you to search for stuff across your account. Yes, DDO should have done this itself years ago, but whatever.).

I do appreciate that DDO is a business, and they want to retain a way to monetize storage; fair enough, within reason. But the current system doesn't even do that well. My main toons, who raid and TR regularly, simply can't buy any more BTC space. And getting rid of BTC won't eliminate the need for mules and shared bank slots, so there's still $$ for DDO to make on those sales.

[carsonfball]

This is my biggest issue with DDO right now. Nowhere near enough storage space.

Look at all the workarounds we use!
Hordes of mules who exist for no other reason than as a sub for storage.
TRd mules just to get the extra storage.
Putting items on AH then cancelling it to store the items in mail.
Using guild chests as personal storage. Some make one man guilds just for that purpose.

Mules: yep
AH: I haven't done that one yet
Guild chests: Yep, nearly every life

Also: Gave things to my wife's character to hold onto while I reincarnate
Also 2: Gave things to one of the characters on my alt account to hold onto while I reincarnate

[carsonfball]

I do appreciate that DDO is a business, and they want to retain a way to monetize storage; fair enough, within reason. But the current system doesn't even do that well. My main toons, who raid and TR regularly, simply can't buy any more BTC space. And getting rid of BTC won't eliminate the need for mules and shared bank slots, so there's still $$ for DDO to make on those sales.

I agree. My two main characters (the one I mostly solo and the one I play with my wife) have bought all of the inventory slots, all of the character bank slots, and my account has all of the shared bank slots. Some of my mules also have most of the inventory and character banks slots and one is using the reincarnation cache to store cosmetics.

Getting rid of BTC would help a lot as my two mains would need a total of one of each minor artifact, not one per character. At this point, that would save at least a dozen slots. That's not even including random raid loot, wands, hand wraps, docents, and rune arms. Seriously, why are any of the rune arms or wands BTC? Most are extremely easy to farm (some are guaranteed rewards). It's not like they are rare items that need to be "earned" through lots of game play. I get a corruption of nature nearly every run. And, yes, I know I could get rid of it and just run the quest the next life for a nearly guaranteed one, but I shouldn't have to run the quest to get an item I already found before I can use it.

Edit: Now that lag is much less severe, bank space and the over use of BTC is my biggest complaint with the game.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

Honestly I kinda feel like you're missing the mark by not offering extra storage *right off the bat*. "Here's this new bank UI! And the best part about it is that it's going to allow us to be able to offer more storage in the future... ALSO THE FUTURE IS NOW, as a third character bank upgrade is available for purchase immediately!"

[mikarddo]

Honestly I kinda feel like you're missing the mark by not offering extra storage *right off the bat*. "Here's this new bank UI! And the best part about it is that it's going to allow us to be able to offer more storage in the future... ALSO THE FUTURE IS NOW, as a third character bank upgrade is available for purchase immediately!"

Honest, you may want to think about what you are asking for.

If SSG offers more char space for money right now and see that it works well for them - they will have even less reason to reduce the BtC clutter or improve on shared banks because that would lower the "need" for the players to purchase more character bank space.

What you are asking for is detrimental to a sound future for the entire inventory system.

[Vannessya]

With all those changes to banking, would it not be the perfect time to invest into the cosmetic tab wardrobe?


Thank you

[Tanky]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

Providing 0 more inventory slots is lame.