U56 Preview 1: Archetype Overview

[Nokkin]

How about the fact that we're locked to a max of 3 EDs, and today at lvl 32 with multiple EPLs we have so many points that we end up having to put them into multiple mantles. I don't know of a single person who WANTS multiple mantles and to juggle swapping them out. EDs will definitely need a revamp as they add more legendary levels and we truly run out of places to meaningfully put the points. Maybe allow multiple mantels to be active after a certain level? Or have 'When mantle active' bonuses in ED X apply new and different bonuses when mantle from ED Y is active?

Run fewer epic past lives, if you already have too many, delete your character and roll a new one. problem solved.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

I love it but where is Wizard Archmage? Been waiting years for that to be updated.

[Zuldar]

I love it but where is Wizard Archmage? Been waiting years for that to be updated.

Since archetypes seem to be able to switch spells around I'd like to see a Mystic Theurge archetype for wizards paired with an archmage rework. Add the cure spells (maybe not heal and mass heal though) and a few other key divine spells, give it an enhancement tree that lets you focus on either arcane or divine casting (with maybe a similar style to how the dark apostate cores works), and switch out Eldritch Knight for a more caster oriented tree (maybe beacon of hope?).

[hit_fido]

My math might be off, but at a quick glance:

Previosly you had:
Light: 5 (core 1) + 5 (core 6) + 15 (T1) + 15(T3) + 15 (T5) = 55.
Universal: 9 (T2) + 9 (t4) = 18.

Now you have:
Light: 30 (core 1-6) + 10 (core 6) + 30 (T2, if you keep stacks up) + 5 (T3) = 75.
Universal: 0.

You've got an enhancement that in theory is +30 spell power; in practice you're not going to keep maximum stacks: they'll dissolve between encounters so you wont start many fights with more than 0 from that enhancement and even during a group of mobs, are you going to cast 10 Light, Alignment or Negative spells in six seconds to ramp up to your full potential? Note here again the new SLA soundburst wont qualify as for this enhancement, it's the most bizarre out of place choice for an SLA, maybe that I've seen in any tree. It's total nonsense.

Spell power from cores, well, I was concerned with what's available in the tree, I guess to me that means whats possible for anyone who takes at least 12 levels. So if your build was anywhere between 12 to 17 levels of cleric, you're losing. Even with a build using 18 levels of cleric you probably wont see the fifth core til level 20.

Fair enough on the +2% crit chance and +5% crit damage, maybe that will make up like 25% of the damage loss from changing Holy Smite dice.

It's just a total loss across the board as far as offensive spell output. I'm pretty sure that is the unstated goal, and you know, whatever, nerfs and buffs come and go and everyone gets a chance to suffer and rejoice over a long period of time. But SSG should just call a nerf a nerf and don't try to sell it as shoring up part of the class. Offensive clerics finally became a thing, SSG "shored up the class" when they delivered the last round of changes to Divine Disciple and added domains. This is tearing it back down and diluting the theme at the same time.


If it were me and I wanted to tone down the light side of Divine Disciple I'd have moved Holy Smite from tier 4 to 5 and dropped flame strike, then cut out the other fire spell power and crit chance from the tree. Then you'd have a modestly nerfed tree that actually becomes more thematically tight and on point.

[nobodynobody1426]

You've got an enhancement that in theory is +30 spell power; in practice you're not going to keep maximum stacks: they'll dissolve between encounters so you wont start many fights with more than 0 from that enhancement and even during a group of mobs, are you going to cast 10 Light, Alignment or Negative spells in six seconds to ramp up to your full potential? Note here again the new SLA soundburst wont qualify as for this enhancement, it's the most bizarre out of place choice for an SLA, maybe that I've seen in any tree. It's total nonsense.

Spell power from cores, well, I was concerned with what's available in the tree, I guess to me that means whats possible for anyone who takes at least 12 levels. So if your build was anywhere between 12 to 17 levels of cleric, you're losing. Even with a build using 18 levels of cleric you probably wont see the fifth core til level 20.

Fair enough on the +2% crit chance and +5% crit damage, maybe that will make up like 25% of the damage loss from changing Holy Smite dice.

It's just a total loss across the board as far as offensive spell output. I'm pretty sure that is the unstated goal, and you know, whatever, nerfs and buffs come and go and everyone gets a chance to suffer and rejoice over a long period of time. But SSG should just call a nerf a nerf and don't try to sell it as shoring up part of the class. Offensive clerics finally became a thing, SSG "shored up the class" when they delivered the last round of changes to Divine Disciple and added domains. This is tearing it back down and diluting the theme at the same time.


If it were me and I wanted to tone down the light side of Divine Disciple I'd have moved Holy Smite from tier 4 to 5 and dropped flame strike, then cut out the other fire spell power and crit chance from the tree. Then you'd have a modestly nerfed tree that actually becomes more thematically tight and on point.

It's not 25%, it's 56% reduction on all the alignment spells. The loss of fire spell support hurts the most though, since there is exactly one high level light spell and it's only mediocre damage for it's slot.

[QuantumFX]

If you see a bug that's not on this list, let me know! Happy testing

So, I have all of the racial past lives on this character, but we'll focus on the half orc stuff to make my point.

Proof of Half-Orc II feat possession:


Proof of Racial Completionist possession:


So, where's the feat bonus to Strength? (Either Half-Orc II or Racial Completionist)

[gravisrs]

Oh no, Divine Disciple got revamped but Turn Undead mechanics did not...

Was that the last train for this? Or will we have Radiant Servant revamped somewhere in the future along with it?

[dgtgtd]

As someone who has not gotten a cleric or FvS past life yet, just based on this thread it sounds to me like as soon as I am finished on HC I need to hurry up and grab a past life of each before they get their heroic spells nerfed to oblivion. Thanks for the warning, other posters.

[ilhares]

Well, I am intrigued, but also greatly disappointed. I know adding races and classes is a bit challenging, but I had really hoped to see DDO finally incorporate some of the psionic races and classes before I died, seeing as how there are already psionic bonuses on a couple items here and there. That said, the potential option for there to be an Arcane Trickster rogue archetype, or an actual Eldritch Knight (fighter) are not bad options, should the devs go that route. Still a let down, but probably easier in the big picture. I'll never get to play an Elan Soulknife, or a proper Duergar Psion.

Although looking at the Advanced Psionics book, I suppose there's room to argue that these archetypes could be utilized to bring some of that action to fruition. Psions are basically wizards, with a psi crystal (optional) in place of a familiar, and we've already seen familiars added in enhancement trees. A psychic warrior could also be squeezed into the Fighter archetypes. Not entirely sure how the Soulknife would work, though, considering the various blade enhancements and blade reshaping they can do. All of them (in the book) except the Psion have 3/4 BAB progression, though, which is also nice.


If I could just persuade Lynnabel to take on one specific item I'm still hoping and praying to see in the game...

[Zuldar]

Not entirely sure how the Soulknife would work, though, considering the various blade enhancements and blade reshaping they can do. All of them (in the book) except the Psion have 3/4 BAB progression, though, which is also nice.

Maybe reuse the same basic tech they have for the scaling shadowblades in feydark illusionist? Make it a monk archetype that can conjure a weapon and than give it various enhancements that modify it. The first core could be a big multiselector that lets you pick the type and than the remaining cores could let you pick a variety of enchants that go on it (which would scale with level) with the level 18 core being the equivalent of a lgs affect and something unique for the capstone.

[DeltaBravo]

Howdy all, happy Wednesday, its time for a quick Bugfix Roundup!

Note that nothing here is meant to be an adjustment design - that part comes later - this is all just bugs getting squished.

Bugs fixed so far (and therefore do not need to be reported):

• dojo telepad no longer takes you to the dread dojo
• artificer past life now correctly works for completionist flagging (this means that next lam completionist auto-grant will work correctly)
• leveling up as a different class after taking 1 level in an archetype no longer completely breaks everything (aka you'll lose your spellbook or gain extra spellbooks)

If you see a bug that's not on this list, let me know! Happy testing

Well if you just want bugs, Assainate bonuses (from items atleast) does not add on to the DC bonus on Coordinated strike from falconry tree, even though it says it do. It works fine on the other bird attacks. but its not working on coordinated strike.

Perfected Jidz-Tet`ka gives Armor bonus 14. Wich it should not since all armors in game add armor bonus- It should proberly be an natural or protection bonus.-


Cheers DB

[Meat-Head]

Howdy all! You know how in the Producer's Letter this year we announced an exciting new type of character build option? Well, those exciting new character build options are Archetypes, and lets get into what exactly that means:

<snip>

Not sure where else to put this feedback:

The Druid Nerf. (Howl of terror). It's probably too strong on live. But, the proposed change makes it mostly useless. Druid builds sacrifice a LOT of APs into NW tree to get this buff.

Alternative Ideas in order of awesomeness:

1. Maintain the live version 25% crit CHANCE aspect, but drop the extra crit DAMAGE to something less than 50. Maybe the 15 you propose makes sense.
2. Double the Current Cooldown from 1 min to 2 mins.
3. As proposed, it's going from +25 chance and +50 damage to +5 chance and +15 damage. Consider something less drastic on the crit CHANCE aspect. Even dropping the extra crit damage completely is better than only adding 5% chance.


The nuker builds that use this aspect sacrifice DCs AND utility from things like the Feydark tree and Falconry tree to make use of it. The proposed nerf means this aspect won't get used at all. All the shifter druids will use other races. So, find a better balance where the current build choice at least still has something worthwhile to sacrifice for. Probably without adding at least like 15%/15%, it won't be worth it. 25%/10% would be my preference. Even 25%/5%.


Those are my 0.02

[carsonfball]

Howdy all! You know how in the Producer's Letter this year we announced an exciting new type of character build option? Well, those exciting new character build options are Archetypes, and lets get into what exactly that means:

I apologize if this has already been answered, but I didn't see it addressed anywhere.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to - at least with the current archetypes - but is it (or will it be) possible to take archetype levels as well as levels in the base class?

[rabidfox]

I apologize if this has already been answered, but I didn't see it addressed anywhere.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to - at least with the current archetypes - but is it (or will it be) possible to take archetype levels as well as levels in the base class?

The answer was in the 1st post.

You can multiclass into an Archetype or a regular class just like you can with regular heroic classes, but you cannot multiclass an Archetype with its base class or another Archetype of the same class. So cleric Archetype + fighter = okay, cleric Archetype + fighter Archetype = okay, but cleric Archetype + different cleric Archetype = not okay, and cleric Archetype + cleric = not okay.

[ilhares]

Maybe reuse the same basic tech they have for the scaling shadowblades in feydark illusionist? Make it a monk archetype that can conjure a weapon and than give it various enhancements that modify it. The first core could be a big multiselector that lets you pick the type and than the remaining cores could let you pick a variety of enchants that go on it (which would scale with level) with the level 18 core being the equivalent of a lgs affect and something unique for the capstone.

That might work out, as long as it doesn't restrict options (beyond a mod point shortage) from being chosen. An LGS-style option, though? Oh, baby, yes. Set me up with some legendary salt.

I'm just glad that it is (potentially) feasible to work something like these into the game without necessarily derailing what they've got going on. They could also apply it to races (choose race, select subrace) to remove some of the cruft there as well. I think the last time I looked at it they treated the Shadar-kai as human, though, despite the majority of them being elves in the lore. Probably because they've got an f-ton of elves already, but now it could be condensed easily enough (though I suspect they'd still keep iconics entirely separated). Could have dwarf/duegar, actual half-elf lineage (regular, wild, drow) and so forth.

Ah well. So much potential.

[Xararion]

I can speak to the balance of the archetypes but I do like the general concept of it. Others have already said lot of interesting options for what could be future archetypes like arcane trickster rogue, eldritch knight fighter (or magus if you're pathfinder player perhaps). For my own wishlist I'd have to put druid on top of the list, ideally a casting focused one that would trade out probably NW (Keep bear tree for durability and to be able to use Hruits) for tree focused on healing and other spells to complement Seasons Herald. If I was to make it, I'd trade away some of the wildshape focus when doing such archetype, since currently the only race with native wisdom modifier (outside of tree) is aasimar, who have bad synergy with druid due to greater form from race and class being incompatible, locking you out of aasimars racials for the most part entirely as a druid. In terms of older editions this would be avenger druid of AD&D, or perhaps Star or spirit druid of 5e could work as conceptual base.

While I don't think I'll be picking any of the currently incoming archetypes, I will at least consider stormsinger bard as I enjoy caster characters the most and out of the ones shown it seems like it could be something for me to do my bard lives with in some future time. Overall I leave the detailed balance considerations to people with more background on the games various stages (I'm still learning through running my lives). Still, at least what we have is promising for future ideas to be open.

[carsonfball]

The answer was in the 1st post.

Thanks. Somehow I missed that.

[Xezom]

I'm pretty excited about these. I've always loved revamps and feel like there are several classes/trees/set-ups (like full caster druid as mentioned in the OP) that have limited access to diverse build options. I can see this being a great way to diversify builds without the heavy need for new mechanics. I would say that when doing these Archtypes it would be nice to see some the less loved spells and effects put to greater effect and get some love. I have very high hopes for these and look forward to playing them on the next go around of the Lam preview as I was not able to this time (thank you jury duty for that).

Some Archtypes I would love to see introduced that come to mind:

- Tinkerer rogue: Rogue that specializes in making traps and grenades and amplifies their effects to a useful enough level to be able to use them as a build.
- Archmage Force Caster: The core force spells (not from Feydark Illusionist) are showing their age... badly. With adjustment and rebalance a force mage that focuses on raw magic power via force has always been a build i've loved.
- ArcanoCannon Artificer: Ever since artifiers came out, i've tried multiple times to make a rune arm focused caster that was viable. To varying degrees there are builds that work moderately, but a full arm cannon build would be awesome.
- Storm/Weather Mage/Druid: I love the storm/Weather spells like Acid rain, Sleet Storm, Ice storm, Storm of Vengeance, etc, but making a build focused on them is quite underwhelming and challenging.
- A True DoT archtype: There are a lot of DoT Spells in DDO, unfortunately there isn't really many trees that greatly support the use of DoT's as your primary abilities. (There is better support now than there has ever been with the ED rework having the Druid DoT spell as an option).


These are just some that I've thought of before. I don't play a lot of melee builds so i'm not ultimately familiar enough to really come up with Archtypes I think would be cool for them, but the idea sounds really cool and perhaps with some nifty archtypes I'd be interested in trying Melee.