U56 Preview 1 - Archetypes

[rabidfox]

Angel of Vengeance core abilities no longer provide bonuses to caster level and max caster level

As I suspect this is set in stone and nothing's gonna offset the huge loss of 6CL/12MCL, can we at least get a slight modification costs to AoV's t4 Intense Faith that gives +1 CL per tier. It currently costs 2 AP per tier (6 AP total), can it be reduced to 1 AP per tier (3 AP total)?

[droid327]

Being able to at least crunch reaper items for fragments before reaching 50 reaper points is good. Not being able to crunch level 1-2 items is understandable. But there are players that are under 50 that have been saving level 1-2 items. I think there should be a window where under 50 point players can turn in level 1-2 items. Maybe add the under 50 point feature with the update, then add the level 1-2 turn in restriction with the subsequent patch to allow a turn in window for items players have been saving up.

No, I get where it was always an exploitative mechanic since Keep always gives a named item at the end. There shouldnt be a grace period for exploiters to abuse an obviously unintended mechanic.

That being said, maybe just make L1-2 items have a 34% chance to give a Reaper frag when crunched...that'd compensate for the 100% drop rate, considering named items have a 34% drop chance in R1

[J1NG]

What exactly are the thoughts of the Healing Hands nerf (taking away the recharges)? At this point, it may make more sense to make everything work via Lay on Hands instead.

I won't lie. I've always felt it was overpowered that they recharged (at Level 16) given that in PnP they're not rechargeable other than through resting. Yet given it's been like this for the last... 5-6 years now? Since Ravenlofts release with Aasimar/Scourge. I've kinda accepted that it might just be the perk for Aasimar/Scourge. So this change? *shrugs* not really a major issue.

Although I will say that the amount of charges may not really be enough per shrine rest when you think about it or indeed spread out at the right points. It's +1 for 2 charges total at 1 AP. Then another +2 at 7AP later, but at +15 levels later on as well before you get more. At that point, it becomes a why bother kind of thing really since it comes too late to be of any real help. Other options are available to Wis based characters (Monks, Clerics, Druids, FvS), so my suggestion (if no other changes are coming), make it either:

1. 5 charges total. +1 at Core 1, +1 at Core 3, +2 at Core 5. This makes it a viable option to invest in for emergencies (limited, 2 less than max now and doesn't recharge) but it's a one shot deal.
2. 3-1 (with optional recharge) charges total. +1 at Core 1, +1 at Core 3, -1 (maybe 2?) Charges at Core 5 but it recharges at 180s. This means it's a viable "long run" use in emergencies but not 7 charges (like on Live) where you can top someone up just like that. But if you don't need to shrine, then you can just keep going. 1 charge may be too little. 2 may be the better point. But as I'm not in charge of this, this is just my thoughts on it.
3. As someone else mentioned, make it so extra LOH charges (like from guild buffs and items) can increase the amount. Don't let it recharge. But let there be an increase to the amount. (Again 4 charges at Level 16 but only 2 charges between Level 1 to 16 seems off, making the Aasimar/Scourge tree very pointless in some cases especially since not everyone has the Wisdom to make it worthwhile either).

Just my musings on that though. Need to head back in and test the FvS AoV changes now.

J1NG

[Kayze]

• Angel of Vengeance core abilities no longer provide bonuses to caster level and max caster level
• Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, Chaos Hammer, and Unholy Blight now deal 1d6+4 damage per caster level.

Why is AoV getting nerfed so hard when the only server that plays the class is hardcore? FvS is overperforming in hardcore mainly because of the +10hp/lvl, which you also get from animal domain cleric, but I don't see animal cleric being nerfed as well.

[J1NG]

It might be just me, not sure, but I think the mouse camera change is bugged or buggy. Whilst it currently prevents the 180 spin issue, on my system it's currently also making mouse assisted camera control very choppy, almost as though it is resisting moving the camera if done too fast or constantly. Anyone else experience this?

J1NG

:: edit ::

Attempting to strafe to the side and then using the mouse camera to lock onto a point so you can circle around causes this issue. Basically the camera resists maintaining a smooth lock by holding right mouse down and then moving the mouse in opposite direction to direction you're strafing towards and keeps trying to push the camera back, making it very choppy here.

:: further edit ::

Same issue plagues if holding middle button(scroll button) down on the mouse to rotate camera (whilst standing still). It sometims becomes choppy and refuses to move (rotate the camera) as what would be expected on live right now.

[Kayze]

Being able to at least crunch reaper items for fragments before reaching 50 reaper points is good. Not being able to crunch level 1-2 items is understandable. But there are players that are under 50 that have been saving level 1-2 items. I think there should be a window where under 50 point players can turn in level 1-2 items. Maybe add the under 50 point feature with the update, then add the level 1-2 turn in restriction with the subsequent patch to allow a turn in window for items players have been saving up.

Grace periods are only useful for exploiters.

[Steelstar]

Why is AoV getting nerfed so hard when the only server that plays the class is hardcore? FvS is overperforming in hardcore mainly because of the +10hp/lvl, which you also get from animal domain cleric, but I don't see animal cleric being nerfed as well.

Class population and popularity is not a 1:1 correlation with how badly something needs a balance adjustment; it never has been.

[LilacDragon6]

The Healing hands nerf is too much. Going from 7 regenerating to 4 that don't just sucks.

[hale99]

Class population and popularity is not a 1:1 correlation with how badly something needs a balance adjustment; it never has been.

So you're just giving FVS the sorc nerf bat on steriods got it.... Its overkill.

[Alternative]

The Healing hands nerf is too much. Going from 7 regenerating to 4 that don't just sucks.

Dps Paladin went down from 11 recharging to 5 non recharging after destiny revamp, when they moved all that stuff to higher tiers of tank trees. That sucked too, but everyone said it was fiiiiine. Racial loh shouldn't be better than a pally loh, especially with so little investment.

[LilacDragon6]

Dps Paladin went down from 11 recharging to 5 non recharging after destiny revamp, when they moved all that stuff to higher tiers of tank trees. That sucked too, but everyone said it was fiiiiine. Racial loh shouldn't be better than a pally loh, especially with so little investment.

So much sucks about Paladin that I didn't even notice that

That doesn't excuse taking a giant dump all over Aasimar.

[Halciet]

Class population and popularity is not a 1:1 correlation with how badly something needs a balance adjustment; it never has been.

Thank you for balancing this tree. A level 7 character casting at level 13 was just plain crazy.

I assume Intense Faith and Zealous Faith will remain to make the tree still usable.

[Thar]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

[*]Reaper Crafting's cost has been reduced to 75 Reaper Fragments.[*]You may now dissolve Reaper items at the second Reaper NPC at any amount of reaper points (note: crafting using these ingredients still requires 50 Reaper points)[*]Reaper crafting no longer accepts level 1 or 2 items
[*]Aasimar and Scourge core 3 no longer provides a bonus to Healing Hands charges[*]Aasimar and Scourge core 5 no longer provides a recharge ability to Healing Hands charges, and also now provides +2 healing hands charges[*]Angel of Vengeance core abilities no longer provide bonuses to caster level and max caster level

[/LIST]

1) reaper costs are still way too high. through 16 years of playing i still can't make a reaper crafting item. +1 normal reaper benefit items should give 1 shard, +3 normal reaper items should give 3, and new reaper should give 10 along with cost dropping to 50 or less

2) why a nerf to aasimar? no reason for this to remove BOTH the regen and the number of charges.

3) not sure why the nerf to angel of vengence to remove that many caster levels. divine casters were just buffed a bit ago to be useful in the everyone has healing world. lets put them back to useless.

[EinarMal]

WOW, big nerf on Tiefling, they will lost 8% fire critical chance and 4% for all others spells critical chances.

Now definily there is no reason to not go Dragonborn and get +2 Max CL and +3 DC

And definilly no more reason to not go Ice, since its the only element with +5 critical chance with filigree.

I agree on the Tiefling one even more than the FVS nerf, FVS do still get +3 max caster levels in T5 which is similar to a lot of the other trees. The only real advantage to Tiefling was the critical damage and fire immunity bypass. Now everyone is going to be Dragonborn (boring).

FVS could probably use maybe at core 4/5 adding back in +1/+2 to make up for the lack of elemental form. Plus no immunity stripping.

I would say to roll a Druid now, but no doubt that will be nerfed next after everyone switches lol....

[Lotoc]

I would say to roll a Druid now, but no doubt that will be nerfed next after everyone switches lol....

The dominant druid build got nerfed too actually, the one using shifter howl of terror SLA to trigger the 5th nature's warrior core for +25% cold crit and +50% crit damage with a 1/3rd uptime

[DeltaBravo]

Dps Paladin went down from 11 recharging to 5 non recharging after destiny revamp, when they moved all that stuff to higher tiers of tank trees. That sucked too, but everyone said it was fiiiiine. Racial loh shouldn't be better than a pally loh, especially with so little investment.

You however have other options to get hextra LOH with paladin.. you dont with asimar

[Mindos]

I took the hands to heal others in an emergency in reaper play. Now, meh, let them die.

[Blastyswa]

This seems a fair bit extreme. FvS nuking is crushed. It also makes no sense since the cleric cores DO get caster levels.

Right now Divine Disciple get +1/+1 Caster Level and Max Caster Level at core 6, and +1/+1 in tier 3. With the Divine Disciple adjustments they'll get +1/+1 at core 5 and core 6, still the same +2/+2 total as before for a Divine Disciple.

Favored Soul right now gets +3/+3 in their tiers, and +6/+12 additional for a lot of their spells, putting them at +9/+15. Cleric getting +2/+2 isn't particularly impressive when Favored Soul was sitting at that very ridiculous +9/+15, you know it was busted before when even with all of the cores gutted FvS will still outnuke cleric.

[Matuse]

Favored Soul right now gets +3/+3 in their tiers, and +6/+12 additional for a lot of their spells, putting them at +9/+15. Cleric getting +2/+2 isn't particularly impressive when Favored Soul was sitting at that very ridiculous +9/+15, you know it was busted before when even with all of the cores gutted FvS will still outnuke cleric.

But I don't know that, and it is only relevant in low Heroics. They could remove the caster levels from cores 1-3 to balance that, and leave it alone for higher levels where it matters far less. The higher you get, the worse pew pew laser nuking is. The extra caster levels allowed a FvS to stay only somewhat behind. Now they're in the dust.

[QuantumFX]

I'm hoping this is something that will be addressed before this goes live: The archetypes are *very* unfriendly towards Iconic builds.

A list of issues:
- Converting a Tiefling Scoundrel back to a bard resulted in me not being able to take the new electric spells despite having the Stormsinger enhancement tree.
- Rolled a 6 Monk/14 Sacred Fist Trailblazer. When I took level 2 at the trainer, I could select Sacred Fist, but the Path of Light feat was not an option when I took character level 2.
- When I tried to whittle the 6 Monk / 14 SF down to a 2 Monk/18 Sacred Fist, the Life-Shaper did not give me an option for Sacred Fist.

I don't want to do a bunch of heroic-only lives in a row, guys. So, please fix these issues.