@ New(er) players: "...no time to dawdle!"

[C-Dog]

Dawdle (dôd'l)

verb

1) to do something or go somewhere very slowly
2) taking more time than is necessary

---

Today I witnessed a sad sight. I joined a party, late, that was half done with Heyton's Rest - and as I entered, they were being wiped by a Hound. They didn't even have the last crest.

There is no excuse for this - no quest in Korthos Village (including Collaborator!) should see a Hound spawn - get in, get it done, get out, no hound, no problem.

But everyone - everyone - in the party needs to grasp this concept! The Hounds are on a timer - it seems consistent at about 5 minutes in The Village, but it can be less once you hit The Harbor.

Season 6 changes some of the default questing expectations - if you stick to your old habits, you (or someone) gonna die.

Six (and two half) Rules to live by:

1) Do NOT enter a quest or wilderness early! The 5 minute (or less!) timer starts when the 1st person enters - so don't do that! Gather the group, step in together, and (again, in the words of Celimas) let's get to it! Talk to that NPC, run to that first door, get it moving!

2) Have your pack cleared for loot, or learn to dump items! A chest is 2 clicks - "select" & "loot all" (default hotkey [b]) - and it should take less time than saying it. If you stop to check your loot, and certainly if you need to open your pack and scan down the list and think about what to dump to make room - you're asking for a Hound.

(If you know your pack is (getting) full, hit the "list" tab, and the "gold" icon - and dump some cheap stuff. Don't think about it, just toss it over the side like your ship is sinking - because that's not a bad analogy.)

...similarly...
2a) If you want named loot, say so in advance! There are several chains where known named items drop - if you want it, let the party know! And if no one has spoken - assume no one wants it! Do NOT slow the party down by waiting around at a chest asking if anyone wants the +1 Magic Dingus of Meh - if they really wanted it, they'd have asked in advance. What everyone wants is to get out with no hounds.

3) Don't stop and gawk! It's fine if you're a newer player and have never run a quest - but HardCore is NOT the place to pause and take a good look around at the artwork and wonder at the marvels of *ding* - you're dead. Stay with the group. If they're moving too fast, drop group - safer for you and them.

4) Let a veteran lead the quest. If you don't know the quest cold - and I mean you could do it in your sleep - Hardcore is NOT the place to learn, nor to pretend you do. Follow the player who clearly knows it - don't get creative, don't get independent, stay with the group and follow their path, don't split unless they say to, don't be alone when the Hound comes howling.

...and, on that note...
4a) No optionals! Experience is easy, you can always run another quest; starting a new character is a pain. Don't go off path, don't go down that side passage, don't slow to break all the boxes - keep pace with the leader, keep your DPS at the front of the group. (There are exceptions - like if you just had a hound and you're at the end - but as a rule of thumb, no.)

5) Don't stop for shrines!... unless you really, really have to! If you're a caster in a group that has lots of DPS, don't run with both Max+Emp - one is fine, let the others get some kills. Get through the quest without pausing, less hounds. (And if you DO need to - absolutely need to - post it, let the party know! Everyone do it as a party!)

6) If you're late, either run or don't. If you enter late, there may be a Hound soon. If you think you can get to the party, then run all out and don't stop until you're safely with the group. BUT, if they are far away and/or you aren't sure about the path - stay at the entrance! Suck it up, get the XP and the Favor, ignore the end-chest, and live to be with the party for the next quest.

And, if you're a party leader and witness a player not following these simple, self-obvious rules - consider /kicking them. For your own safety. I, for one, will respect you more for it.


You wouldn't need to do this on a regular server, but with Hounds, you really need to make these your new HC habits, or at least understand the risks if you don't. This season, there's no time to dawdle.


Stay alive, and haff fun stomin da cassul!
o/

[slarden]

The worst thing I saw on hardcore this season.

One guy was always offering up named items several times during a session.

The end of his story is that he was offering up an item with a mythic +3 and not getting any responses. A hound spawned and killed him and everyone else was in the process of exiting out and he ended up alone.

I won't repeat what he said, but it could be classified as a hardcore rage quit. No good deed goes unpunished.

[C-Dog]

Really sad thing was it was probably in Borderlands, where few of those items matter past Lvl 3 or so.

But very good point - I'll add another "rule". :/

[Phatlewts]

Flimsy and Steele had a baby and it's name is hardcore season 6

[brian14]

4) Let a veteran lead the quest. If you don't know the quest cold - and I mean you could do it in your sleep - Hardcore is NOT the place to learn, nor to pretend you do. Follow the player who clearly knows it - don't get creative, don't get independent, stay with the group and follow their path, don't split unless they say to, don't be alone when the Hound comes howling.

Last season I had a Warlock 14 die in Black and Blue because I did not follow the leader exactly. As you run across the floating ice, there is an Adventurer's Pack off to the right. I swerved to loot it and died to a trap which I did not know was there.

[Aelonwy]

The worst thing I saw on hardcore this season.

One guy was always offering up named items several times during a session.

The end of his story is that he was offering up an item with a mythic +3 and not getting any responses. A hound spawned and killed him and everyone else was in the process of exiting out and he ended up alone.

I won't repeat what he said, but it could be classified as a hardcore rage quit. No good deed goes unpunished.

This sort of thing^ encourages zerging and punishes co-operative play.

[Kayze]

This sort of thing^ encourages zerging and punishes co-operative play.

There's a difference between zerging and not dawdling excessively.

You can ask once if anyone wants an item, and if there are no responses within a reasonable amount of time, loot it. People will generally say what named items they want beforehand.

[sabella]

I'm not a very "hardcore" hardcore player, but I believe I disagree with some of this.

In particular the "don't stop for shrines" portion. How are low level hounds killing a party if it's not because they're too low on HPs, playing on too high a level (elite I'm guessing) and can't kill it? IMO, if you're not very experienced you should play through on normal, then on hard, and make sure HPs and Mana are as topped out as you can get. The low level hounds aren't that bad and a party (or even solo) should be able to kill them. And if they can't, they should repeat quests for experience/gear at lower levels until they can.

I'm also iffy on the "don't get the extra experience" thing. I personally think it's easier to take all the experience/optionals and deal with a hound or two on a low level quest and then skip them higher up when it matters. I don't see any reason why a group shouldn't mine all the XP they can get out of Korthos and the Keep and whatever 2s/3s they can do, then skip anything extra when they get to the DOT levels.

[SevenDeadlySins]

This sort of thing^ encourages zerging and punishes co-operative play.

Playing smart and telling party members you are looking for a piece of gear before starting the quest is just a good practice on Hardcore. Otherwise the rule of hardcore is loot and scoot especially with the hounds this season wasting time will get you wasted.

[C-Dog]

... I believe I disagree with some of this.

We're not actually disagreeing that much.

The "No shrines" rule is (clearly) qualified - "unless you really have to!". If you're low on hit points and your party doesn't have a healer, then you have to.*

(* If you find yourself in this situation frequently on HC, then you have bigger problems, but that's a diff discussion.)

That rule (as explained in the body of that portion) is targeted at casters who blast thru all their spell points, expecting to use every shrine - nty.

I'm also iffy on the "don't get the extra experience" thing...

Okay, here we do disagree.

I find most "optionals" to be slow XP anyway - run around and around and around and get +5% of base - yay. Adding 25% of the time to a quest for +15% of the xp is not efficient; doing so and getting a Hound when you don't have to is tantamount to a deathwish.*

In easily 80%+ of the cases, it's faster to run a quest a second time on Hard and get XP for that, rather than chase optionals in all the quests you'd need for the same XP. (There are exceptions, but not as a rule. If in doubt, ASK THE PARTY LEADER - and see Rule #4.)

(* and please take note - this post is to NEW(ER) players! If you are killing hounds without breaking a sweat, you probably aren't in that category.)

[Oxarhamar]

There's a difference between zerging and not dawdling excessively.

You can ask once if anyone wants an item, and if there are no responses within a reasonable amount of time, loot it. People will generally say what named items they want beforehand.

On top of all the other selfish mechanics

Reaper crafting, sentient xp, canith crafting encouragement for players to loot instead of share now HCL has people rushing loot for self preservation

[FengXian]

This is just bad design. Yes HC is mostly for experienced players, and I'll say that quest knowledge is EASILY the most important factor to be successful.

But HC was great because it encouraged grouping, and to some degree discouraged zerging.

This season unreasonably encourages the party hugging at all times, and at the same time encourages zerging because of the timer.

And as Oxarhamar said, another great part was helping other players gear. I won't declare which named I could use out of every single quest, and neither will the VAST majority of players. I will realize I could use an item if offered though. Or maybe I simply don't need it enough to state it at start, but will take if there's one for roll. Now that's discouraged because hound timers.

It's been a very disappointing experience so far compared to previous seasons.

I honestly don't see why people would go out of their way to defend SSG instead of providing honest and useful, while negative, feedback.

[hale99]

This is just bad design. Yes HC is mostly for experienced players, and I'll say that quest knowledge is EASILY the most important factor to be successful.

But HC was great because it encouraged grouping, and to some degree discouraged zerging.

This season unreasonably encourages the party hugging at all times, and at the same time encourages zerging because of the timer.

And as Oxarhamar said, another great part was helping other players gear. I won't declare which named I could use out of every single quest, and neither will the VAST majority of players. I will realize I could use an item if offered though. Or maybe I simply don't need it enough to state it at start, but will take if there's one for roll. Now that's discouraged because hound timers.

It's been a very disappointing experience so far compared to previous seasons.

I honestly don't see why people would go out of their way to defend SSG instead of providing honest and useful, while negative, feedback.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on ALL points. The group I ran up with, my static group (while yes not everyone has that luxury) was able to mostly zoom through quests on elite at a swift pace. We also weren't "party hugging" during every quest either. Not gonna lie playing my spellsinger bard it was really fun to break off from the party at times and not be sure if I was going to be hunted or not.

What I have been disappointed with is the nerfing of hounds. The but fixes have been necessary but there have definitely been some nerfs to them.

Our group is currently level 22 and making our way up to 30 pretty fast. This being my first real season trying I'm enjoying it a lot and the other people I'm with who have done HC before are also really enjoying it too.

[Damian]

I think this whole loot super fast and finish out could be avoided by one simple fix:

No more hounds can spawn once a quest is finished.

[Thoggy]

I do miss the trading chit-chat at end chest a bit and it does make it necessary to set up trade offers/desired item(s) in advance.

But please don't get mad if you clearly ask for that Named (Heavy Armor/robe/ring/glove/hat) at start & at the end chest someone loots it instead offering to trade/give it!

Because player's loot is theirs (they might have an alt that needs it, want it on home server, forgot your offer, just want to get out of quest RIGHT NOW, or just want gem-food)!

[Kayze]

I think this whole loot super fast and finish out could be avoided by one simple fix:

No more hounds can spawn once a quest is finished.

This would make it, once again, much easier for people that multibox.

But please don't get mad if you clearly ask for that Named (Heavy Armor/robe/ring/glove/hat) at start & at the end chest someone loots it instead offering to trade/give it!

Because player's loot is theirs (they might have an alt that needs it, want it on home server, forgot your offer, just want to get out of quest RIGHT NOW, or just want gem-food)!

This. There are a few people on hardcore that seem to think the party's loot is their own loot pool and take it personally.

[FengXian]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on ALL points. The group I ran up with, my static group (while yes not everyone has that luxury) was able to mostly zoom through quests on elite at a swift pace. We also weren't "party hugging" during every quest either. Not gonna lie playing my spellsinger bard it was really fun to break off from the party at times and not be sure if I was going to be hunted or not.

What I have been disappointed with is the nerfing of hounds. The but fixes have been necessary but there have definitely been some nerfs to them.

Our group is currently level 22 and making our way up to 30 pretty fast. This being my first real season trying I'm enjoying it a lot and the other people I'm with who have done HC before are also really enjoying it too.

But you have to understand your counterarguments are merely anecdotal. And a static group is an even bigger and rarer luxury than you might think, yes.

[Hafeal]

But everyone - everyone - in the party needs to grasp this concept! The Hounds are on a timer - it seems consistent at about 5 minutes in The Village, but it can be less once you hit The Harbor.

My regular group believes the spawn reset occurs at 3 minutes based on our experiences. Of course, it can be more than 5 minutes before a spawn actually happens.

We keep track as we quest to time boss fights or other serious obstacles.

Easily timed off buffs.

[rish]

We keep track as we quest to time boss fights or other serious obstacles.

That is an absolute must, and not really all that hard to time...you can really get a feel for when it's been a while since you've seen a hound...stop, chill, take that time to rebuff, kill hound, move on.

[sabella]

We're not actually disagreeing that much.

The "No shrines" rule is (clearly) qualified - "unless you really have to!". If you're low on hit points and your party doesn't have a healer, then you have to.*

(* If you find yourself in this situation frequently on HC, then you have bigger problems, but that's a diff discussion.)

That rule (as explained in the body of that portion) is targeted at casters who blast thru all their spell points, expecting to use every shrine - nty.


Okay, here we do disagree.

I find most "optionals" to be slow XP anyway - run around and around and around and get +5% of base - yay. Adding 25% of the time to a quest for +15% of the xp is not efficient; doing so and getting a Hound when you don't have to is tantamount to a deathwish.*

In easily 80%+ of the cases, it's faster to run a quest a second time on Hard and get XP for that, rather than chase optionals in all the quests you'd need for the same XP. (There are exceptions, but not as a rule. If in doubt, ASK THE PARTY LEADER - and see Rule #4.)

(* and please take note - this post is to NEW(ER) players! If you are killing hounds without breaking a sweat, you probably aren't in that category.)

Well you're leaving new(er) players to self-define "really need to" while prioritizing avoiding shrines. And a group of newer players might need a mage to blast the points to make sure things are dead - depending. I certainly wouldn't suggest using metamagics (which they probably don't have yet anyway) but if they're just normally trying to kill things and/or trying out what spells work and run out of spellpoints, that's one of the things the shrine is for.

I believe new(er) low level players should do all Korthos quests on Normal and Hard and then go back and do Elite. Unless you're suggesting a second Hard run, in my mind they've already done that.

No I'm not a new(er) player. I've played DDO since about 6 months or so after launch and spent many enjoyable hours doing it. I'm just not a *good* player (or never thought of myself that way until this HC) LOL

But the big difference in my world and yours is that you're talking about PUGs (with a "leader") and I never do that. I play with a static family group on weekends and with my husband (does two of us count as solo?) if we have extra time during the week. I think these rules might be what you want for a group that you're leading, and more power to you. The leader has the right to make any rules they like. I just think if a group of new(er) players is playing together, they might consider some other options. Like a little extra experience can go a long way if it means another action point and a another enhancement before taking on a harder quest.