I am sooo over the TR cache

[LightBear]

The TR cache is THE reason I hate to do TRs of any sort. I will never be any kind of completionist because of it.

BtC Items is what makes it a pain.
If every BtC was BtA instead it would become a whoop-pack of tissues easier.

[Chacka_DDO]

It's a necessary evil for the time being. Low drop rates, diluted loot pools, and the ransack mechanic make throwing away anything you're not actively using an impractical solution. It doesn't help that so many items are bound to character which limits how effective bank toons are. Carrying over House K and Coin Lord favor wouldn't provide anywhere near the necessary amount of storage space to solve the issue on it's own. Hopefully the storage rework addresses this issue but for now simply getting rid of the TR cache would literally make the game unplayable and I do mean that in the literal sense rather than figurative.

To my knowledge, no one ever said that removing the TR cache solves all problems with space in DDO.
The point is that the TR cache itself is from the start a bad idea and the reason for this is obviously that we lose the Kundarak and Coin Lord's bank and inventory space with a TR.
And the existence of the TR cache has of course consequences because it provides a certain amount of additional but temporary space but at the very end you still only have space for ~274 items because you have to empty your TR cache before a new TR.
The effective additional space a player gets from the TR cache is basically only the free space in your inventory that is usually reserved for loot.

And because it is seemingly not allowed to tell someone he did not understand something on this forum...

I just only want to tell you once again that the idea I have is that you RETAIN your current reincarnation cache and only no new items will be transferred into the cache if we get rid of the cache.
To claim that DDO will get unplayable for you if you no longer lose your Coin Lords and Kundarank inventory and bank space makes no sense to me...
Are you not able to do an Epic Reincarnation or a Lesser Reincarnation and does this makes DDO unplayable for you?
What I want is basically that a TR works exactly like an ER or LR regarding your bank and inventory and your reincarnation cache if you have one and I don't see what additional problem this should cause that makes DDO "unplayable" for you.
But maybe you can enlighten me?

Of course, I would not complain if we get more bank and inventory space but this would NOT remove the problem with the reincarnation cache, on the contrary, it would actually make the problem worse!
The more bank and inventory space we have the bigger the TR cache has to be and the more items we have to remove from the cache before we TR.
It is of course now a problem to get completely rid of the reincarnation cache even if it is certainly possible and only difficult...
But as a compromise, it would be certainly possible to move no new items into the existing caches and to release the players from the duty to empty the existing TR caches.

[Dandonk]

I just only want to tell you once again that the idea I have is that you RETAIN your current reincarnation cache and only no new items will be transferred into the cache if we get rid of the cache.

The problem here is that, over time, you will likely take more and more items out of this cache. And end up with less and less inventory/bank slots available. For instance, if you change from melee to caster, you'll likely want to use some items you didn't take out of the cache before. So, from then on, those items are now permanently clogging up your inventory/bank. So slowly, over time and TRs, the cache would be emptied and you'd have to find room for all these rarely-used items.

I completely agree that we should find a way to get rid of TR cache. But not in a way that leads to having less inventory/bank slots on a character (unless they give us thousands of slots in shared bank and make everything BTA of course).

[Chacka_DDO]

The problem here is that, over time, you will likely take more and more items out of this cache. And end up with less and less inventory/bank slots available. For instance, if you change from melee to caster, you'll likely want to use some items you didn't take out of the cache before. So, from then on, those items are now permanently clogging up your inventory/bank. So slowly, over time and TRs, the cache would be emptied and you'd have to find room for all these rarely-used items.

I completely agree that we should find a way to get rid of TR cache. But not in a way that leads to having less inventory/bank slots on a character (unless they give us thousands of slots in shared bank and make everything BTA of course).

Yes, you are right and I'm aware of that but...

1. The TR cache was never meant to be additional space so you should not feel entitled to have that additional space.
2. The TR cache might contain up to 274 items but the effective space win is maybe 60 items because you have to empty the cache before you TR
3. There is simply no other way if you want to get rid of the TR cache that you will lose the additional space it provides.
4. You would have a lot of time to empty your old TR cache and let's be honest, most players have actually a lot of items in the TR cache they don't want to destroy maybe because it was once hard-earned but they also don't want to use them anymore, at least for me this is true
5. If SSG should introduce 60 or even more additional bank and/or inventory space this should be more than enough to make up for the loss of the space the reincarnation cache provides and it would be wrong to still insist on the additional space from the reincarnation cache especially because it forces everyone to deal with the disadvantages of that cache.

And by the way, my suggestion to simply not lose the Kundarak and Coin Lords bank and inventory space after a TR and retain the existing TR cache without the need to empty it before a TR is of course only the try to search for the best possible compromise.
This means the least possible work for SSG and the least possible disadvantages for the players at the same time...

Of course, I can also imagine better solutions for the players like SSG could make the TR cache unlimited and at the same time there is no need to empty it after a TR and in addition of course a neat search function for the cache and of course, SSG uses fast storage so that the cache performs much better than it does now.
but this is wishful thinking

[Dandonk]

1. The TR cache was never meant to be additional space so you should not feel entitled to have that additional space.

But we've had it for so many years now, that changing it to something lesser would be really bad, IMO. Removing space we've had for so long would be a slap in the face to the players.

2. The TR cache might contain up to 274 items but the effective space win is maybe 60 items because you have to empty the cache before you TR

I have 220ish items in my cache after TR, and take out around 100-120 of those right after. Maybe 20-40 later on as I level. So the effective space I have in my cache is 60-100, since I only take the rest out right before TR. This is a significant amount of space to me.

3. There is simply no other way if you want to get rid of the TR cache that you will lose the additional space it provides.

There isn't? Give us 300 free new bank slots with the new bank system, and then remove the cache. Works for me.

4. You would have a lot of time to empty your old TR cache and let's be honest, most players have actually a lot of items in the TR cache they don't want to destroy maybe because it was once hard-earned but they also don't want to use them anymore, at least for me this is true

A great part of the game is collecting gear that you either need, or want to try with a new build later on. Why should this be made worse?

And I did actually delete/eat a fair deal of items on my main. Just before they upgraded the old items (some old DoJ items that I could have used for augments, for instance). So, I'm not doing that again. Old gear might be useless now, but I'm not going to farm them all over again when they make them good again in a year or two.

5. If SSG should introduce 60 or even more additional bank and/or inventory space this should be more than enough to make up for the loss of the space the reincarnation cache provides and it would be wrong to still insist on the additional space from the reincarnation cache especially because it forces everyone to deal with the disadvantages of that cache.

I'm not arguing that we should get the entire full cache. I'd be OK with somewhat less. In my case, call it 100 more and I'd be fine.

I hope that the new bank/inventory, when it finaly comes, will help with all of this. I think we should leave it until then - combining the inventory upgrade with removal of the TR cache would make sense to me, at least.

[Phatlewts]

To my knowledge, no one ever said that removing the TR cache solves all problems with space in DDO.
The point is that the TR cache itself is from the start a bad idea and the reason for this is obviously that we lose the Kundarak and Coin Lord's bank and inventory space with a TR.
And the existence of the TR cache has of course consequences because it provides a certain amount of additional but temporary space but at the very end you still only have space for ~274 items because you have to empty your TR cache before a new TR.
The effective additional space a player gets from the TR cache is basically only the free space in your inventory that is usually reserved for loot.

And because it is seemingly not allowed to tell someone he did not understand something on this forum...

I just only want to tell you once again that the idea I have is that you RETAIN your current reincarnation cache and only no new items will be transferred into the cache if we get rid of the cache.
To claim that DDO will get unplayable for you if you no longer lose your Coin Lords and Kundarank inventory and bank space makes no sense to me...
Are you not able to do an Epic Reincarnation or a Lesser Reincarnation and does this makes DDO unplayable for you?
What I want is basically that a TR works exactly like an ER or LR regarding your bank and inventory and your reincarnation cache if you have one and I don't see what additional problem this should cause that makes DDO "unplayable" for you.
But maybe you can enlighten me?

Of course, I would not complain if we get more bank and inventory space but this would NOT remove the problem with the reincarnation cache, on the contrary, it would actually make the problem worse!
The more bank and inventory space we have the bigger the TR cache has to be and the more items we have to remove from the cache before we TR.
It is of course now a problem to get completely rid of the reincarnation cache even if it is certainly possible and only difficult...
But as a compromise, it would be certainly possible to move no new items into the existing caches and to release the players from the duty to empty the existing TR caches.

This is exactly right. Any other arguments about the value of the TR cache are at best insignificant. I AM a horder. FYI Mule toon, OK. It's a pretty easy concept. If you keep all your BTA stuff in the shared bank and on mule toons then managing the BTC stuff is not a big problem. While I agree that BTC stuff is a huge PITA for so many reasons. Making Coin lords and House K slots permanent is such an obvious and easy solution. You could even make it only last for one life, so you don't lose it until you TR again, unless you reacquire the favor and you get it for the next life. But of course, the favorite response of the devs is "we can't do that", yet they managed to have done exactly that for so many things that previously were "impossible" or beyond their capabilities.

[kmoustakas]

The game is now completely dependent on the TR cache and it is arguably the very worst aspect of this game. So little has been done to make it better, and almost nothing done to stop items from disappearing upon reincarnation. I we don't continue to voice our displeasure with it, nothing will be done to get rid of it... And I don't mean losing storage space, but anyone who feels they still need it might consider hording therapy...

The lag (aka anti-duping check) when you are trying to empty your TR cache is UNACCEPTABLE. I need MORE than ten minutes just to take everything out with an empty inventory.

[Oliphant]

TR life got a lot better for me when I tossed every item I possibly could. I also never use a portable hole to get that last inventory anymore to moderate how big it can be. Works so much better when its not overfull. Yes, they should overall reincarnation imo.

[GeneralDiomedes]

I don't care for the TR cache but the TR mechanic that drains the will to TR from me is the whole relevel up from 1 to 20 on an epic TR. I just find that whole process mind-numbing but at the same time you have to be meticulous and pay attention because you don't want to make a mistake.

this - I don't understand why epic TR forces you to do this every time. So frustrating. although I am getting faster at it.

[Chacka_DDO]

But we've had it for so many years now, that changing it to something lesser would be really bad, IMO. Removing space we've had for so long would be a slap in the face to the players.

I can understand that you feel entitled to that additional space out of habit and this is also an indication that the whole idea of that cache was bad from the start...
But especially when we also get compensation with more bank and inventory space it would be wrong to still insist on this space.

I have 220ish items in my cache after TR, and take out around 100-120 of those right after. Maybe 20-40 later on as I level. So the effective space I have in my cache is 60-100, since I only take the rest out right before TR. This is a significant amount of space to me.

It depends actually on the space in your inventory you don't use for items you have always with you because you need them for questing.
I have currently only 38 slots free in my inventory and therefore the effective additional space the TR cache provides is currently only 38 for me.
And I actually wonder how much space you have in your inventory, looks like you don't use many items for questing if you have 100 slots free.

There isn't? Give us 300 free new bank slots with the new bank system, and then remove the cache. Works for me.

So you say you would lose 60-100 item space with the reincarnation cache but you want compensation of 300 or more items?

A great part of the game is collecting gear that you either need, or want to try with a new build later on. Why should this be made worse?

And I did actually delete/eat a fair deal of items on my main. Just before they upgraded the old items (some old DoJ items that I could have used for augments, for instance). So, I'm not doing that again. Old gear might be useless now, but I'm not going to farm them all over again when they make them good again in a year or two.

Yes you are right we don't have enough space in DDO and we should have more but the reincarnation cache is a very bad kind of space and personally, I would be happy to get rid of it even without any compensation and I think I can manage the situation easily if I retain my current reincarnation cache when I'm not forced to empty it and when no new items are moved into the cache.
But we should even less insist on this cache when we get additionally compensated.

I'm not arguing that we should get the entire full cache. I'd be OK with somewhat less. In my case, call it 100 more and I'd be fine.

I hope that the new bank/inventory, when it finaly comes, will help with all of this. I think we should leave it until then - combining the inventory upgrade with removal of the TR cache would make sense to me, at least.

Actually, I think SSG could do exactly what I suggested and no one can seriously and rightfully complain about it but if they give us additional compensation for the lost effective space of the TR cache it would be even better!
There were no numbers in the producer's letter but let's hope it is significantly more space we will get.

But from what I read it is about giving us character bank and inventory space so I'm afraid SSG still insists that we should get a significant amount of bound to character items while I (and I think the vast majority of players) would more like to have only bound to account items with a few exceptions.
I'm even more radical by the way, I would even like almost all items free tradable, maybe on a separate server for players who see it in the same way as me.

[yfernbottom]

The sto0rareg situation in DDO is absurd. The reincarnation systems encourages you to hang on to gear for a variety of levels ranges and potential builds. I would say my establish characters in this game have three or four times as much gear that I feel obligated to keep compared to a normal MMO.

At the same time, you get access to less storage than almost anything else I can think of. It's absolutely baffling.

[Dreppo]

almost nothing done to stop items from disappearing upon reincarnation

They fixed that issue completely a few years ago. The issue was with characters who were already flagged for TR, who then waited across at least one game update before actually TR'ing. Their fix was to force you to log in with that character at least once after any game update before TR'ing.

[Dreppo]

The lag (aka anti-duping check) when you are trying to empty your TR cache is UNACCEPTABLE. I need MORE than ten minutes just to take everything out with an empty inventory.

They did a huge performance enhancement in this area sometime over the last couple updates. It used to take around 10 seconds to extract a single item from the TR cache. Now it's pretty snappy (less than a second).

[Chacka_DDO]

They did a huge performance enhancement in this area sometime over the last couple updates. It used to take around 10 seconds to extract a single item from the TR cache. Now it's pretty snappy (less than a second).

Yes, indeed, the storage servers who handle the TR cache seem to be no longer steam-powered and I'm thankful for that but to empty the TR cache is still an annoyance and we should get rid of it rather sooner than later.

[Chacka_DDO]

The sto0rareg situation in DDO is absurd. The reincarnation systems encourages you to hang on to gear for a variety of levels ranges and potential builds. I would say my establish characters in this game have three or four times as much gear that I feel obligated to keep compared to a normal MMO.

At the same time, you get access to less storage than almost anything else I can think of. It's absolutely baffling.

Yes, indeed and something that can help to ease the situation would be an account-based progression, if you like a build you could keep it and just start another character if you want more past lives...
For example, if you want your so-called "main" to be a barbarian but you want the paladin's past lives for him, then you just start a new character as a paladin while your Barbarian stays intact with all his own items, and the new items for the paladin build are on the new character.
After you are done getting the paladin lives done you can decide to use this character to do other builds or you keep him as a paladin if you like that build and start another character for example to get monk lives.
This way you don't have to store all items for all build for your past lives on one so-called "main", a big relief for storage problems and also for item management (instead of mules you have characters who actually use the items they store), and this in addition to the benefit that you have then a barbarian and a paladin available for playing on demand.

And another idea who can help to ease the situation is items for all character levels, currently, we have to store different items with different Minimum levels who do basically exactly the same which is a useless waste of space.
With items for all character levels, we rather focus on different items we can use for different quests than have items for different minimum levels.

[TedSandyman]

I think I spent more time scribing scrolls than emptying the TR cache this time.

The lag between clicking an item and it showing up in the inventory has been drastically reduced and made the TR cache emptying really a lot easier for me.

I do hate the TR cache, but I would rather have it and live with the pain than get rid of it.

A lot of people LOVE the idea of keeping their gear but only hate it when they have to TR and empty the thing. The good part (keeping gear) is hidden and not really thought about but the painful part is concentrated in the TR.

If you think about it the benefits FAR outweigh the downside.

If you don't want to use it and hate it so much, then just throw away the extra gear. No one forces you to use the TR cache. If you don't think the pain of emptying it is worth the ability to keep gear, then don't use it.

I suspect you don't really want to get rid of the TR cache because that would mean getting rid of being able to keep BTC gear through a TR. You only really want to get rid of emptying the TR cache between TRs. But that just isn't sustainable.

I, for one, am happy there is a mechanism to save that gear even if that mechanism is painful.

Of course if they could come up with a better way to save gear between TRs then that would be awesome.

[adamkatt]

Bully for you.

I lost an ESOS and EROSS back when getting those was like winning to lottery. Lost of ton of other items, and CS will usually only replace 3 of them. It sucks.

i was not being any type of bully.

[adamkatt]

Me neither. I get that it’s always somewhat worrisome though.

However, to everyone worried about their cache - just empty it. I do it asap every life now and it’s just so much better.

I empty it as i gain room from house k favor every life. but its never right then all at once, i just dont have room with all the btc junk i carry around.

[Chacka_DDO]

I think I spent more time scribing scrolls than emptying the TR cache this time.

The lag between clicking an item and it showing up in the inventory has been drastically reduced and made the TR cache emptying really a lot easier for me.

I do hate the TR cache, but I would rather have it and live with the pain than get rid of it.

A lot of people LOVE the idea of keeping their gear but only hate it when they have to TR and empty the thing. The good part (keeping gear) is hidden and not really thought about but the painful part is concentrated in the TR.

If you think about it the benefits FAR outweigh the downside.

If you don't want to use it and hate it so much, then just throw away the extra gear. No one forces you to use the TR cache. If you don't think the pain of emptying it is worth the ability to keep gear, then don't use it.

I suspect you don't really want to get rid of the TR cache because that would mean getting rid of being able to keep BTC gear through a TR. You only really want to get rid of emptying the TR cache between TRs. But that just isn't sustainable.

I, for one, am happy there is a mechanism to save that gear even if that mechanism is painful.

Of course if they could come up with a better way to save gear between TRs then that would be awesome.

Huh?
"No one forces you to use the TR cache. If you don't think the pain of emptying it is worth the ability to keep gear, then don't use it."

Of course, everyone is forced to "use" the reincarnation cache, it happens always if you TR even if you don't have enough items to use your Kundarak and Coin Lord's bank and inventory slots.

And the small side effect is that you win effectively a small amount of space for the trade-off to need to empty your TR cache every life and in addition searching for your items in the cache is for sure NOT worth that!
And just only because you think that the small item space win is worth it not everyone should be forced to deal with that cache.
But I would be already happy if SSG makes it an option in the DDO Store to permanently buy the Coin Lords and Kundarak inventory and bank slots and if you do make the TR cache optional then you could keep your precious reincarnation cache

But is it may be possible you don't understand what the point is?
The point is not that you lose your items after a TR, the point is that the items are not moved into a TR cache and instead remain in your bank and inventory in addition everything that is currently in your reincarnation cache also remains there until you pull it out.
The only difference to the status quo is that no new items should be moved into the cache and you don't have to empty your old cache before a TR.
And all this is possible if we keep our Kundarak and Coin Lord's bank and inventory after a TGR because exactly this is most likely the main reason why the reincarnation cache exists.

And it is not like that I'm not willing to compromise...
Another option would be that we get a button to automatically empty the TR cache and maybe a counter so we know how many items are in the cache so that we know how much space needs to be freed before we can click that button.
If the job gets done by itself while we can do something else it is also acceptable.
Clicking 270+ items is still annoying even if each click needs only a second (btw. I want to repeat that I'm thankful it doesn't need up to 15 seconds per item anymore).

[PaddyMaxson]

Concur. FWIW I'm about to hit 100 PLs and never lost items during TR. Not bragging here - just suggesting maybe not as common an issue as in years past so folks that are worried maybe give it another go... I'll also mention SSG did something because emptying your TR cache is much faster than it used to be.

I don't recall ever losing anything myself, apart from probably hours of my life double-clicking items and waiting for the servers to catch up.