2HF Melee Bard viable?

[ZJEPane]

Hi, all! It's been a good long while since I've played.

I was wondering if the "bardbarian" of the old days is still viable. Something that can, essentially, buff and smash. I've only done three lives on this new toon, so I don't have a lot of PL feats or a great deal of rare/specialized gear, but I do have a +8 tome and the universal trees.

Would I still splash barb? And, if so, how many levels?
Or is it worth doing the CHA to hit/damage in one of the universal trees?

Would love some thoughts on how to proceed. Last thing I want to do is TR into something unplayable.

Thanks!

[FuzzyDuck81]

A 2hf warchanter bard is a very solid performer; with access to the feydark illusionist tree, you can have CHA for to-hit & damage (keeping the bare minimum STR including tomes for 2hf feats) plus some other handy boosts, which will mean your spells are, if not 100%, then at least viable in a lot of content & it'll boost your icy crowd control too.

Race-wise there's a lot of good options - I'd suggest shifter since they can do well with their additional racial boosts while raged. Splashing a barbarian level or 2 isn't really necessary but if you do, you can stack additional rage duration & another +3 CON while raging from those trees which means you can be looking at a long-duration +10 CON clicky, pretty nifty.

[unbongwah]

I'll presume we're talking about CHA-based builds with Feydark Illusionist. When it comes to 2H Warchanters, you have a few options.

• Bard 20 - maxes out bard benefits including WC capstone (Skaldic Scream). But lowest personal DPS since your only crit bonus from Enhancements is Howl of the North (+1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20). Also Feydark tree lacks CHA Battle Trance; you can take Know the Angles (INT Battle Trance) but now your build has gotten even MAD-er.
• Bard 18 / <cleric or FvS> 1 / fighter 1 - trades Skaldic Scream for Divine Might, extra feat, and Haste Boost. [EDIT: or barb splash instead of fighter for +10% runspeed; Haste Boost can come from Vistani Knife Fighter.]
• Bard 13 / fighter 6 / <cleric or FvS> 1 - gives up more bard stuff (level 6 spells, Victory Song, Inspire Heroics, WC freeze duration / DCs) for more feats and Strike with No Thought (+1 crit multiplier).
• Bard 12 / barbarian 6 / FvS 2 - at this point you're mostly focused on personal melee DPS with tier-5 Frenzied Berserker (Focus Wide + Focused Wrath) and tier-2 Warsoul (Smite Weakness + Haste Boost). But you can still take Frozen Fury + Northwind. And when you get to epics, you can grab Draconic Rage ("You may now cast spells while Raging").

So basically: do you want to be primarily a support toon with all the toys which pure bard brings to the table with melee DPS as a (very) secondary consideration; or primarily a solo 2H DPS toon with some bard toys to play with; or somewhere in between?

[ZJEPane]

I'll presume we're talking about CHA-based builds with Feydark Illusionist. When it comes to 2H Warchanters, you have a few options.

• Bard 20 - maxes out bard benefits including WC capstone (Skaldic Scream). But lowest personal DPS since your only crit bonus from Enhancements is Howl of the North (+1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20). Also Feydark tree lacks CHA Battle Trance; you can take Know the Angles (INT Battle Trance) but now your build has gotten even MAD-er.
• Bard 18 / <cleric or FvS> 1 / fighter 1 - trades Skaldic Scream for Divine Might, extra feat, and Haste Boost.
• Bard 13 / fighter 6 / <cleric or FvS> 1 - gives up more bard stuff (level 6 spells, Victory Song, Inspire Heroics, WC freeze duration / DCs) for more feats and Strike with No Thought (+1 crit multiplier).
• Bard 12 / barbarian 6 / FvS 2 - at this point you're mostly focused on personal melee DPS with tier-5 Frenzied Berserker (Focus Wide + Focused Wrath) and tier-2 Warsoul (Smite Weakness + Haste Boost). But you can still take Frozen Fury + Northwind. And when you get to epics, you can grab Draconic Rage ("You may now cast spells while Raging").

So basically: do you want to be primarily a support toon with all the toys which pure bard brings to the table with melee DPS as a (very) secondary consideration; or primarily a solo 2H DPS toon with some bard toys to play with; or somewhere in between?

Thank you for spelling out these ideas. I usually play pure classes (sometimes with a level or two of splash, back in the day) but some of these deeper cuts sound much more interesting.

I'm leaning more toward a solo 2H DPS toon with some bard toys. Mostly for solo 2H DPS, but able to contribute something to a party other than running around behind the arcanes

[unbongwah]

I'm leaning more toward a solo 2H DPS toon with some bard toys.

Okay then I was thinking something like this.

DB Frenzied Warchanter
12/6/2 Bard/Barbarian/Favored Soul
True Neutral Dragonborn




Level Order


1. Bard            6. Bard           11. Barbarian      16. Bard
2. Barbarian       7. Bard           12. Barbarian      17. Bard
3. Favored Soul    8. Bard           13. Bard           18. Bard
4. Favored Soul    9. Barbarian      14. Bard           19. Bard
5. Bard           10. Barbarian      15. Bard           20. Barbarian




Stats
               28pt     32pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        17       17       4: CHA
Dexterity        6        6       8: CHA
Constitution    13       14      12: CHA
Intelligence    10       10      16: CHA
Wisdom           8        8      20: CHA
Charisma        19       20      24: CHA
                                 28: CHA


Skills
         Bd Bn Fv Fv Bd Bd Bd Bd Bn Bn Bn Bn Bd Bd Bd Bd Bd Bd Bd Bn
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Heal         2  2  2           1  2  2  2  2  1  1  1  1  1  1     2  23
Perform   4           4  1  1  1              4  2  1  1  1  1  1     22
UMD       4           2  3  1  1                 2  3  3  1  1  1     22
Concent   4              2  4  1                          2  2  4     19
Spellcr   4                    1                                       5
Balance   4                                                            4
Tumble    4                                                            4
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         24  4  2  2  6  6  6  6  4  4  4  4  6  6  6  6  6  6  6  4




Feats


 1        : Two Handed Fighting
 3        : Power Attack
 6        : Quicken Spell
 9        : Improved Two Handed Fighting
12        : Improved Critical: Slashing
15        : Greater Two Handed Fighting
18        : Empower Healing Spell OR Spell Focus: Evocation
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
22 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting OR Lasting Inspiration
24 Epic   : Inspire Excellence OR Burst of Glacial Wrath
25 Destiny: Crush Weakness OR Elusive Target
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos OR Deific Warding
30 Epic   : 
30 Legend : Scion of: Feywild OR Arborea


 1 Dragon : Draconic Ancestry: White


 4 FavSoul: Grace of Battle


 3 Deity  : Follower of: Sovereign Host




Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)


Frenzied Berserker (35 AP)
Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy
Extra Rage III, Cracking Attack III
Angry Arms III, Body Blow III, Blood Tribute III, Extra Action Boost III, Sprint Boost I
Mad Munitions III, Constitution
Crazy Strike III
Focus Wide, Focused Wrath II, Healing or Hurt: Raging Blows

Warchanter (26 AP)
Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit
Poetic Edda III, Enchant Weapon
Arcane Shield Chant III, Iced Edges III
Ironskin Chant III, Frozen Fury III
Reckless Chant III, Armorer

War Soul (10 AP)
Smite Foe: Melee
Divine Might: Divine Might III, Sacred Touch I
Smite Weakness, Haste Boost III

Feydark Illusionist (9 AP)
Find Familiar: Fox
Familiar's Flourish I, Illusory Weaponry
Familiar's Flourish II, You've Got My Back



Destinies (Spent: 52 (40 +12pdp) / Max: 52 (40 +12pdp) AP)


Fury of the wild (36 AP)
Die Hard, Die Harder, Die Hardest
Epic Strike: Adrenaline III, Mantle of Fury III
Primal Scream
Sense Weakness III, Wild Weapons: Strike Through III, Fury Selector: Furious III
The Voice of Fury, Wade Through: Strike Through III, Force Selector: Overwelming Force III, Unquenchable Rage III
Scarred by Chaos, Unbridled Fury, Nature's Fury

Fatesinger (8 AP)
Fatesinger's Repertoire, Intoxicating Presence
Epic Strike: The Sword Sings, Harmonic Resonance
Discord: Blade of Discord

Draconic Incarnation (8 AP)
Draconic Bloodline: White, Draconic Heritage
Draconic Perception I, Dragonhide III
Draconic Rage

There's probably a better leveling order for maxing out the core skills but I'm too lazy to figure it out right now. Also the Enhancements are for epics once you have Draconic Rage. For heroics, skip the barbarian Rage enhancements; we don't want to block spellcasting while leveling. Since this isn't a STR-based build, we're mostly using Rage for the +10 Melee Power from Frenzy + Raging Blows as well as FotW bonuses.

Weapons: at low levels, use whatever you want / have available. After level 12, your primary weapon should be falchion, Sword of Shadow, or anything else with 15-20 critical threat range after Improved Critical to take advantage of Focused Wrath's +2 crit multiplier bonus.

[ZJEPane]

You are wonderful, thank you!

I will give this a go next life.

[zwiebelring]

Hi, all! It's been a good long while since I've played.

I was wondering if the "bardbarian" of the old days is still viable. Something that can, essentially, buff and smash. I've only done three lives on this new toon, so I don't have a lot of PL feats or a great deal of rare/specialized gear, but I do have a +8 tome and the universal trees.

Would I still splash barb? And, if so, how many levels?
Or is it worth doing the CHA to hit/damage in one of the universal trees?

Would love some thoughts on how to proceed. Last thing I want to do is TR into something unplayable.

Thanks!

Hello. In my opinion, splashing is like mny things in life... depending on context. After introduction to the Feydark Illusionist, a max. STR Bard seems very limited. A CHA melee Bard can use the spells very effectively while leveling, which gives great versatility, even into epics.

However, a Half Orc Warchanter may be very good by splashing Bar. Especially with many racial action points. By splashing 1 Bar I assume a max. STR and rage uses. If your focus is on playing a Bard then I do not recommend splashing more than 1 Barbarian. 1 Bar/ 1 FvS/ 18 Brd focus on STR, stun, freezing.

Right now I am hunting rap.s with a 1Ftr/ 1FvS/ 18 Brd build. I am very happy with it.