U55 Legendary Monsters Accurate/Dodgy and stuff will NOT be in Dread

[kamimitsu]

Hey folks, just gonna give a quick update on some of the legendary monster changes which have been floating around in the previews.

In essence we have been experimenting with several things…

1.Having Mobs in legendary reaper reduce players effective dodge (a much more milder version of what happens already with incorp/displacement)

2.Having Mobs in legendary gain new abilities based on their “class”. Example: A rogue might have some dodge, or a Fighter might have some Dodge Pen.

I’m not going to go into much more detail than that now because with all that's going with Dread we have decided that these sub systems need more time to bake in dev. So we are kicking this can to another update.

To be clear... These changes will not be in the Isle of Dread update.

When we are ready to dig into these things again more details will be provided in this Lammania thread, and it will be part of a different update/preview cycle, with a bit more time to take in feedback and hash out the effects to general game balance.

Enjoy the Dinosaurs!

-T

I won't rehash all the other comments on how this overtly penalizes the most difficult and least effective playstyle in the game (melee). I mean, you have to know that casters (divine, arcane, alchemist, etc.) are all BLOWING through high skull reaper content solo, wasting entire rooms of monsters with a spell or two before the monsters can get within any kind of threatening distance. Likewise with ranged to a lesser extent, though admittedly they have to run and hop around a bunch more. Maintaining distance is essentially 100% dodge. Meanwhile, many cloth/light armor melees struggle to get through low skull content even with near perfect build and gear (not helped by the fact that blur/incorp are basically useless in mid-high reaper). You'd have to know that... right?

Instead I will suggest that you offer rogues/monks and other classes that DEPEND on dodge a "dodge bypass bypass" that allows them to negate the monster's dodge bypass (kung fu movies do this all the time!). Then a few updates down the road you can release a monster "dodge bypass bypass bypass" and then a player "dodge bypass bypass bypass bypass".

[GramercyRiff]

Hey folks, just gonna give a quick update on some of the legendary monster changes which have been floating around in the previews.

In essence we have been experimenting with several things…

1.Having Mobs in legendary reaper reduce players effective dodge (a much more milder version of what happens already with incorp/displacement)

2.Having Mobs in legendary gain new abilities based on their “class”. Example: A rogue might have some dodge, or a Fighter might have some Dodge Pen.

I’m not going to go into much more detail than that now because with all that's going with Dread we have decided that these sub systems need more time to bake in dev. So we are kicking this can to another update.

To be clear... These changes will not be in the Isle of Dread update.

When we are ready to dig into these things again more details will be provided in this Lammania thread, and it will be part of a different update/preview cycle, with a bit more time to take in feedback and hash out the effects to general game balance.

Enjoy the Dinosaurs!

-T

You're focusing on the wrong part of the game to adjust if you're going to adjust anything. Casters are the OP issue right now. You guys buffed them quite a lot by the way. Nerfing melee is borderline comical right now.

[nobodynobody1426]

I think any old/new reaper penalties need to be rebalanced amongst r1-10. There's a very different game being played by different groups

1: new players that keep throwing themselves at elite and dying a lot because everyone tells them to run elite/r1
2: players that run most quests on r1 for the xp
3: players who run everything on low r1-4
4: players who run everything on r5+

So it'd be nice if any reaper penalties such as self-healing and damage weren't as severe early on, as opposed to a smooth progression (no thanks!).

Groups 1 through 3 don't matter, only making the game "more challenging" for group 4. All systems must be adjusted to ensure group 4 is properly challenged, the others can just unsub and go elsewhere.

[BDog77]

Yeah, I thought reaper was supposed to be hard. I feel they should remove all healing in reaper. Let the story be about how far we got in R10, not how many times we finished that quest on R10.

[Whitering]

My biggest problem with it is that you have to build for Dodge. Displacement and Blur are spells. The gear sacrifices to get to 50 dodge (other than clicky abilities) are noticeable. Thus, players who get to that point have already sacrificed, most notably less PRR, and then whatever gear choices. I say this not as a dodge player, I do play light armor sometimes for evasion, but I will always take medium or heavy if easily available and I never play robes, so I am not a dodger. Still, I hate this change, it's probably a direct shot at Tilo, they seem to nerf everything after he discovers some related abilities that make someone uber. I am still sad over the loss of the Tree build, that was easily the most fun I ever had playing the game and that was one wonky build haha

[Havocthedemon]

You're focusing on the wrong part of the game to adjust if you're going to adjust anything. Casters are the OP issue right now. You guys buffed them quite a lot by the way. Nerfing melee is borderline comical right now.

I still think the devs are so completely out of their minds. Melee is literally the least powerful of the three play styls and it’s not even close. Casters are the obvious problem the way they trivialize content from a safe distance. Devs: how insane are you? The fact that this idea is even being discussed is so funny it’s actually stupid. If anything melee needs a buff to even survive going toe to toe with a doom reaper without instantly being murdered while guess what - the casters save his life by healing and dpsing. Matter of fact, even if he died the casters would say good now I can just focus on dps and kite the doom then res after. What f*cking game are you guys playing here bc it’s certainly not your own.

[Jerevth]

I don't rely on dodge because it's currently easier for me to gear for AC and PRR/MRR. But I don't advocate lowering it for those who do use it without providing better, alternative defenses in its place.

SSG wants to "revisit" how dodge works but to get an effective dodge means sacrificing high AC/MRR/PRR. Then it's a question of enough hitpoints to absorb the failure. And Dodge is already ignored by spells; why would it need to be adjusted? So what if the common trash can't touch a monk?
And, there's no ebb and flow with the coding so situations that dump the sole, viable defense of a character ignores that they have no other, real defensive systems.
True sight Champs already ignore blue and displacement. Ghostly is pretty well reined-in already.

The balance already exists: AC is meh in the most challenging levels unless you sacrifice DPS. PRR can be overwhelmed by numbers. MRR can be ignored by effects and Type (Force, Untyped). Now dodge which, not too long ago, had it's cap lowered, is in the targeting reticule, for further negative changes. Enhancement trees have point expenditures aligned for increasing Dodge (Along with AC and PRR/MRR) and they are already must-haves in many builds to make dodge effective. At what point will the dodgers have to spec for survival and sacrifice other enhancements? Look at the DCs introduced with the newer quests... the bar was already raised for many aspects of the game.

I'll watch the changes and try them out when they come, with an attempt to judiciousness, and reading what other have to say, but I hope SSG is willing to to step it back, or even prepared to pull the coding if it turns out to be a disaster.

Change can be good, but there's been a lot of change for the "Sake of Balance" that actually seems to create more issues over the last couple years. Some bugs remain in play, lost in the noise of the next update.
The company would gain a LOT of good will if they're prepared to walk their changes back, perhaps even run the changes for a week on the Lam server (perhaps introduce an incentive to test- a glitched mount, an animated cloak, DDO points, etc) before introducing it to the regular servers.

[Anasu]

Let me save you time... Just shut up and buy the new overpowered thing they make and play it until the nerf it, then buy the next thing.

This.

Don't ask questions. Just consume product and then get excited for next product.

[rabidfox]

Do wonder if this is coming back right after u57's HP changes or if it's dead in the water and not coming down the line.

[Arkat]

Do wonder if this is coming back right after u57's HP changes or if it's dead in the water and not coming down the line.

Please let a sleeping dog lie.