Three Weapon Related Questions

[Annex]

Hey.

For a Level 30 pure Bard, which is better, a Rapier or a Shortsword?
(I have a Morninglord's Rapier and Morninglord's Shortsword. As best I can tell, there is no difference between the two. My Bard looks a lot like the one posted by FiveTigers about a year ago, but without all the nice things.)

For a Level 30 pure Dagger Rogue (Assassin+Vistani), what is a decent (not great) number for Melee Power (before Reaper Enhancements)?
(Since I have played Dagger Rogue since day 1, I am very comfortable with them. However, I have never played at Level 30 and need a number to work towards.)

For a Level 30 pure Wizard (Archmage), what are decent (not great) numbers for Force Spellpower and Force Critical (before Reaper Enhancements)?
(It has been a few years, but I am making another attempt to troubleshoot my three Wizards.)

To be clear, I am not a new player and have no need for new player advice. However, until recently, I had never played at Level 30 more than a few hours (to gather Heart Seeds) and have a definite knowledge gap to fill. Some hard numbers would help. That's all I am looking for.

Upon reflection, I have one more question, not related to weapons. Would you rate Saltmarsh quests as easier, harder, or about the same as other Level 32 quest?
(I am using the Saltmarsh Saga as a baseline for Level 30 character progress. If a Character lags behind the others, that Character needs work.)

Here's another one: What Filigrees would you recommend for a Level 30 Wizard (Archmage) using Force and Fire?

Can you tell I do not know anyone in game? One more: What Filigrees would you recommend for the L30 Bard from the first question?

Thanks.

[Weemadarthur]

Hey.

For a Level 30 pure Bard, which is better, a Rapier or a Shortsword?
(I have a Morninglord's Rapier and Morninglord's Shortsword. As best I can tell, there is no difference between the two. My Bard looks a lot like the one posted by FiveTigers about a year ago, but without all the nice things.)

I will give a stab at this one as I have done a bard life fairly recently but leave the other two to people that will know better (my last melee rogue was years ago and I think my last archmage Wiz was about 3 enhancement overhauls ago lol).

A lot will depend on if you are swashbuckling. If so (and I remember right) swashbuckling will pretty much make a shortsword and rapier identical so there will be no discernible difference. This (also if I remember right and if not I'm sure someone will correct me pretty quick) is pretty much the same for all light weapons except for hand axe (which I think gets an extra +1 to crit multiplier). If you are not swashbuckling then rapier pulls ahead due to it's increased threat range.

Now I will be honest here and confess I'm no bard expert so if someone corrects what I have said here please take their advice over mine as they will likely know better. From memory though I think what I have stated is correct so hope that helps.

As for filigrees I would ask what kind of Bard you are playing (as in melee, CC caster, DPS caster or healer/buffer as main focus) before recommending any particular sets. Also which x-packs do you have access to for which fili's you can easily obtain?

[Annex]

Thank you very much for the advice, Weemadarthur!

A lot will depend on if you are swashbuckling. If so (and I remember right) swashbuckling will pretty much make a shortsword and rapier identical so there will be no discernible difference. This (also if I remember right and if not I'm sure someone will correct me pretty quick) is pretty much the same for all light weapons except for hand axe (which I think gets an extra +1 to crit multiplier). If you are not swashbuckling then rapier pulls ahead due to it's increased threat range.

Ah! My Bard is Swashbuckling. Swashbuckling adds more to Shortsword than Rapier so I expected Shortsword to pull ahead, but if Rapier starts ahead, it makes sense that they pull even.

As for filigrees I would ask what kind of Bard you are playing (as in melee, CC caster, DPS caster or healer/buffer as main focus) before recommending any particular sets. Also which x-packs do you have access to for which fili's you can easily obtain?

My Bard is mostly in the tree with Freezing Ice with some Swashbuckling and a smattering here and there. I play her as Melee.

On her account I own everything except Feywild, Hunt or be Hunted, and Saltmarsh. The points are primed for Saltmarsh and The Isle of Dread but I am waiting for a sale. My primary account has Saltmarsh so she can get those Filigrees that way. (I play the Saltmarsh Saga about every other day.)

Thank you again.

[Kayze]

For a Level 30 pure Bard, which is better, a Rapier or a Shortsword?
(I have a Morninglord's Rapier and Morninglord's Shortsword. As best I can tell, there is no difference between the two. My Bard looks a lot like the one posted by FiveTigers about a year ago, but without all the nice things.)

Here is the build that was mentioned. With swashbuckling, rapiers and shortswords have identical damage profiles.

A lot will depend on if you are swashbuckling. If so (and I remember right) swashbuckling will pretty much make a shortsword and rapier identical so there will be no discernible difference. This (also if I remember right and if not I'm sure someone will correct me pretty quick) is pretty much the same for all light weapons except for hand axe (which I think gets an extra +1 to crit multiplier). If you are not swashbuckling then rapier pulls ahead due to it's increased threat range.

To elaborate on this answer and to hopefully provide context, swashbuckling works by turning all affected weapons into 18-20/x3. Rapier gets +1 multiplier (from 18-20/x2). Shortsword gets +1 threat and +1 multiplier (from 19-20/x2). Handaxe is an exception because it only needs threat range (from 20/x3). Since similar bonuses do not stack, any critical multiplier bonus can apply on top of the swashbuckling one, the biggest one being frenzied berserker's +2 multiplier.

For a Level 30 pure Dagger Rogue (Assassin+Vistani), what is a decent (not great) number for Melee Power (before Reaper Enhancements)?
(Since I have played Dagger Rogue since day 1, I am very comfortable with them. However, I have never played at Level 30 and need a number to work towards.)

200 standing melee power is a decent starting point.

Here is a more detailed breakdown on where all melee power comes from and sources that you can aim towards. If you want more melee power though, a bigger fighter split is recommended for all of the specialization feats and kensei enhancements (one cut, opportunity attack, one with the blade adds 60, weapon focus/specialization feats adds 2x7 = 14):

• 60 Epic Levels
• 10 SWF style
• 20 VKF capstone
• 10 aasimar fallen bond
• 10 crown of butterflies
• 10 topaz of melee power +10
• 15 artifact (augment set, family, or tinkerer's)
• 45 Destiny cores
• 8 2x raid rare filigree
• 10 2x prowess melee power
• 10 2x dreadbringer melee power
• 10 2x longshadow melee power
• 10 sucker punch/one against many set
• 15 dreadbringer set
• 5 longshadow set
• 4 melee power tome
• 5 scion of ethereal

247 standing

• 40 from reaper/mythic bonus on items
• 15 (20, but 15 more than ethereal) scion of arborea

302 standing with reaper/mythic items and arborea

• 15 store potion
• 30 action hero

burst of 347

For a Level 30 pure Wizard (Archmage), what are decent (not great) numbers for Force Spellpower and Force Critical (before Reaper Enhancements)?

700 force and 500 universal spell power with 40 force critical is a good starting point.

[Artos_Fabril]

[*]10 crown of butterflies[*]8 ring of prowess

Crown of butterflies doesn't list a bonus type for its melee power, but if it's not enhancement, you can still get more (10 vs 8) by slotting a Topaz of melee power +10 instead of ring of peowess.

[unbongwah]

For a Level 30 pure Bard, which is better, a Rapier or a Shortsword?

All things being equal, for someone with access to available universal trees, I would say: neither because they're functionally identical. As stated by others, Swashbuckling is designed to make all compatible weapons have 15-20/x3 critical threat range, excluding unique bonuses like Sword to Plowshares or named weapons (e.g. Balizarde becomes 15-20/x4). The only perks I could think of for short swords are you can (A) use Conjure Shadowblade while leveling so you don't have to worry about weapon choices; and (B) take Vulkoor's Blessing from Divine Crusader to take advantage of DC's Favored Weapon bonuses.

But daggers with 11 APs into Vistani Knife Fighter gains Rapid Slash, +5% Doublestrike, free Deflect Arrows & Quick Draw, and Haste Boost; boost that to 23 APs, you gain +20 Melee Power and another +5% doublestrike. Some of those are generic bonuses but things like Rapid Slash, Single Dagger, and Knife Training are dagger-specific. And obviously daggers, short swords, and rapiers are all Piercing weapons so they use the same feats.

[Annex]

All things being equal, for someone with access to available universal trees, I would say: neither because they're functionally identical. As stated by others, Swashbuckling is designed to make all compatible weapons have 15-20/x3 critical threat range, excluding unique bonuses like Sword to Plowshares or named weapons (e.g. Balizarde becomes 15-20/x4). The only perks I could think of for short swords are you can (A) use Conjure Shadowblade while leveling so you don't have to worry about weapon choices; and (B) take Vulkoor's Blessing from Divine Crusader to take advantage of DC's Favored Weapon bonuses.

But daggers with 11 APs into Vistani Knife Fighter gains Rapid Slash, +5% Doublestrike, free Deflect Arrows & Quick Draw, and Haste Boost; boost that to 23 APs, you gain +20 Melee Power and another +5% doublestrike. Some of those are generic bonuses but things like Rapid Slash, Single Dagger, and Knife Training are dagger-specific. And obviously daggers, short swords, and rapiers are all Piercing weapons so they use the same feats.

Thank you for the advice, Unbongwah. Despite having used Daggers and Vistani so long, it never occurred to me to build a Dagger Bard. I will investigate that further.

Edit: She already has 12 points in Vistani. Putting more there would require giving up some very nice things. Since I already have plenty of Dagger users, I will leave her with the Rapier and Buckler.

.....

New question: For a L30 pure Wizard, is Draconic Incarnation better than Shiradi?

I have not experimented with Draconic Incarnation in a very long time. Perhaps I should just try it tomorrow and see what happens.

[Kayze]

New question: For a L30 pure Wizard, is Draconic Incarnation better than Shiradi?

I have not experimented with Draconic Incarnation in a very long time. Perhaps I should just try it tomorrow and see what happens.

Draconic incarnation does way more damage, especially after shiradi got gutted.

An alternative option for mantle: if SP is an issue, primal avatar's Ever Green essentially gives you infinite SP.

[Weemadarthur]

Thank you for the advice, Unbongwah. Despite having used Daggers and Vistani so long, it never occurred to me to build a Dagger Bard. I will investigate that further.

.....

New question: For a L30 pure Wizard, is Draconic Incarnation better than Shiradi?

I have not experimented with Draconic Incarnation in a very long time. Perhaps I should just try it tomorrow and see what happens.

If your backup is fire spec then I would now say most definitely yes. Elemental damage is far superior in draconic since the Shiradi nerf. You will lose a little on the Shiradi procs for your force spells but if your fire spell power is decent you will more than make up for it there. I would go as far as to say go fire specced and use force as the backup now tbh.

[cru121]

For a Level 30 pure Bard

If you are an aasimar scourge, you should use Light Maces, for 1 extra crit multiplier from racial enhancements.
If you're not, you can use Sickles for +1 threat range (requires the Swords to Plowshares feat). (Or kamas, but they require an additional feat for exotic weapon prof.)
I don't like daggers on bards. It makes you wonder why are you bard.

[Annex]

If your backup is fire spec then I would now say most definitely yes. Elemental damage is far superior in draconic since the Shiradi nerf. You will lose a little on the Shiradi procs for your force spells but if your fire spell power is decent you will more than make up for it there. I would go as far as to say go fire specced and use force as the backup now tbh.

Her backup is Fire so I reconfigured after reading your reply and went to Ravenloft.

TWENTY THREE THOUSAND POINTS OF DAMAGE??? And I get an "I WIN!!!" button that hits everything for 6-8,000 damage every 15 seconds??? And I get 300 Hit Points just because why not? And my Hires all become more powerful? And that's if anything gets past the Fire Wall?

Goodness gracious. No wonder. That was Epic Hard because she has no equipment accept Club and Orb. Better to learn late than never, I suppose. *shakes head*

Well, that's good. She can report for Ravenloft equipment recovery duty since she one shots everything and takes no damage.

.....

So another question: Dreadbringer for Melee seems pretty darn powerful. Slot that for Dagger Rogue? Maybe Staff Monk/Rogue and Bard, too?

[Annex]

If you are an aasimar scourge, you should use Light Maces, for 1 extra crit multiplier from racial enhancements.
If you're not, you can use Sickles for +1 threat range (requires the Swords to Plowshares feat). (Or kamas, but they require an additional feat for exotic weapon prof.)
I don't like daggers on bards. It makes you wonder why are you bard.

Oh, that's interesting. Thank you, Cru121. She is Human and would need to rebuild for Swords to Plowshares. That is one Epic go round away, so easy to do. Let me think about this Sickles idea. Given my very modest ambitions, my inclination is to stay with the Rapier.

[Weemadarthur]

So another question: Dreadbringer for Melee seems pretty darn powerful. Slot that for Dagger Rogue? Maybe Staff Monk/Rogue and Bard, too?

At this point I'm having to theory craft as I don't have any of the dreadbringer filigrees yet. On paper dreadbringer looks exceptionally good for any melee as the combination of melee power and fort bypass is a superb combo. You could then if you have the spaces combine those with 1 or 2 of the 2 piece sets for added melee power (2x sucker punch, treachery, one against many and long shadow can all give +10 melee power if you use the rare melee power filigree for each set (8 with a regular one).

[adamkatt]

Try to jump into as many dryad raids as much as youre able. the rapier and the fiddle are great items for a bard!

[Annex]

Try to jump into as many dryad raids as much as youre able. the rapier and the fiddle are great items for a bard!

Thank you, Adamkatt. I am now 100% solo so Raid stuff is out of the question. That is why I am seeking information about "decent" numbers.

[adamkatt]

Thank you, Adamkatt. I am now 100% solo so Raid stuff is out of the question. That is why I am seeking information about "decent" numbers.

Get into crafting then. here is the crafting planner to see whats possible. http://ccplanner.byethost14.com/?i=2

[Annex]

Get into crafting then. here is the crafting planner to see whats possible. http://ccplanner.byethost14.com/?i=2

The Cannith Crafting tables in the DDO Wiki have served me well since late 2017.

.....

Asking a bunch of random questions was probably not wise. Please understand, my Characters perform very poorly compared to what other Forum Members describe and the path to improvement is not obvious to me. No, that's not right. I know I need to do the following:

1) Figure out a 12 piece Equipment Set for each Character.
2) Recover the equipment required for each Equipment Set.
3) Recover the 19+ Augments required for each Equipment Set.
4) Try different Epic Destiny combinations on each Character. Search for the best combination.
5) Try different Enhancement combinations on each Character. Search for the best combination.
6) Fix Feat problems with an Epic Reset as necessary.
7) Continue to purchase and use Ability Score Tomes when possible.
8) Continue to generate and use Skill Tomes.
9) Use Mysterious Remnants for Tomes when possible.
10) Replace bad Characters with better ones.
11) Hopefully, some day, become strong enough to survive in Reaper Mode.

That list contains a great deal of uncertainty. For some line items, the path to improvement is not obvious to me. Some Players succeed with Characters right out the gate. How come my Characters fail so badly, even after following the steps above for many years? What am I doing wrong? These are questions I continue to struggle with.

I am once again near my limit for DDO pain so I will probably take another break very soon. Thank you to everyone who responded! I really need to find a fun adventure game I can play without the constant hard work and stop bothering all of you with dumb questions.

[Artos_Fabril]

I am once again near my limit for DDO pain so I will probably take another break very soon. Thank you to everyone who responded! I really need to find a fun adventure game I can play without the constant hard work and stop bothering all of you with dumb questions.

I've been having a lot of fun with Pathfinger:Wrath of the Righteous recently. These days I only log in to play with my static group. If building and playing characters in an epic D&D-esque story is what you like about DDO, I recommend grabbing it, or at least keeping an eye out for a sale.

[adamkatt]

Annex you want to solo most of the content then try https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...mpanion-thread . this build also works great during HC season.

[Asylumist]

Hey.

For a Level 30 pure Bard, which is better, a Rapier or a Shortsword?
(I have a Morninglord's Rapier and Morninglord's Shortsword. As best I can tell, there is no difference between the two. My Bard looks a lot like the one posted by FiveTigers about a year ago, but without all the nice things.)

For a Level 30 pure Dagger Rogue (Assassin+Vistani), what is a decent (not great) number for Melee Power (before Reaper Enhancements)?
(Since I have played Dagger Rogue since day 1, I am very comfortable with them. However, I have never played at Level 30 and need a number to work towards.)

For a Level 30 pure Wizard (Archmage), what are decent (not great) numbers for Force Spellpower and Force Critical (before Reaper Enhancements)?
(It has been a few years, but I am making another attempt to troubleshoot my three Wizards.)

To be clear, I am not a new player and have no need for new player advice. However, until recently, I had never played at Level 30 more than a few hours (to gather Heart Seeds) and have a definite knowledge gap to fill. Some hard numbers would help. That's all I am looking for.

Upon reflection, I have one more question, not related to weapons. Would you rate Saltmarsh quests as easier, harder, or about the same as other Level 32 quest?
(I am using the Saltmarsh Saga as a baseline for Level 30 character progress. If a Character lags behind the others, that Character needs work.)

Here's another one: What Filigrees would you recommend for a Level 30 Wizard (Archmage) using Force and Fire?

Can you tell I do not know anyone in game? One more: What Filigrees would you recommend for the L30 Bard from the first question?

Thanks.

Hand Axe?