U55 Preview 2: The Level Cap Increase

[Nickodeamous]

Hi all,

the definition of Be the Whirlwind says:

Fury of the Wild: Be the Whirlwind: Using any of the feats Trip, Improved Trip, or Whirlwind Attack causes a whirlwind of force to burst from you striking nearby enemies for 1d10 bludgeon damage per character level. Scales with 200% Melee Power. Improved Trip also causes all affected enemies to be tripped unless they succeed at a balance check (DC equal to Improved Trip).

I play with bludgeon weapons and I am not seeing a separate proc for this, so I cant tell if it is working or not. Is it lumped into the bludgeon damage? Or should we see a different line item that shows this?

Also, tool tip under the ED tab says 150% of Melee Power vs. 200% (either way, its not working)

Thanks!
Nico

Edit: This does not appear to be working. I just tested it with and without core 4 (BtWW) and DPS was roughly the same. I think this should prob be its own proc correct?

[Ganak]

Improved Trip can be gotten from Fury of the Wild Tier 4 which also gets Trip DC in Tier 1. Fury of the Wild is definitely the Trip destiny.

The problem is that the Improved Trip in Tier 4 you can choose to select (or not to select if you are not Str focused).

To have a trip focused 4th Core...it needs to be taken for the (+20 Hit Points as well as 5 Melee Power), but you get bum else unless you are Str based using trip or a monk using whirlwind (and why would a monk go all the way in Fury instead of Grandmaster of Flowers?)

Fury was supposed to be for TWF as well as for THF/Barbs/Druid melee. At the time I felt they tried to cram too much into Fury, but I've come around to feeling Fury is ok for TWF (except the epic strike cutter stinks and adrenaline isn't optimized for TWF).

FURY IS SUPPOSED TO BE for TWF TOO! This core excludes non-Str TWF builds!

[Udofire]

I play with bludgeon weapons and I am not seeing a separate proc for this, so I cant tell if it is working or not. Is it lumped into the bludgeon damage? Or should we see a different line item that shows this?

Also, tool tip under the ED tab says 150% of Melee Power vs. 200% (either way, its not working)

Thanks!
Nico

Edit: This does not appear to be working. I just tested it with and without core 4 (BtWW) and DPS was roughly the same. I think this should prob be its own proc correct?

I know it works with improved trip, and it's a pretty small aoe. it doesn't seem to work at all with whirlwind attack though.

[elvesunited]

The problem is that the Improved Trip in Tier 4 you can choose to select (or not to select if you are not Str focused).

To have a trip focused 4th Core...it needs to be taken for the (+20 Hit Points as well as 5 Melee Power), but you get bum else unless you are Str based using trip or a monk using whirlwind (and why would a monk go all the way in Fury instead of Grandmaster of Flowers?)

Fury was supposed to be for TWF as well as for THF/Barbs/Druid melee. At the time I felt they tried to cram too much into Fury, but I've come around to feeling Fury is ok for TWF (except the epic strike cutter stinks and adrenaline isn't optimized for TWF).

FURY IS SUPPOSED TO BE for TWF TOO! This core excludes non-Str TWF builds!

But the question I would have is .... when has trip ever been a monk ability? Monks stun. Unless you're a strength based monk I don't see you going through the effort of getting Improved Trip and this ability is designed around Improved Trip with Whirlwind just being add on flavor similar to how Stunning Blow was added to the monk Tier 4. ( very few monks I think take that feat ) Even whirlwind is only a monk ability because it's broken for almost every other class. ( Animal form druids being the other )

What we're seeing is that the core 4s are enhancing the primary tactics ability of each destiny. Grandmaster has a stun enhancing ability. Fury gets trip. Divine Crusader gets sunder. The problem is something that has plagued the destinies since they were designed. They are wildly out of balance with each other.

[Archfae]

Tested a few things:

Love the new GMoF core 4. It'll be better once the monk rework eventually gets here, but being able to have 2 out of 3 between light, dark, and void is really nice for opening up new combos.

Pretty happy with the caster / trap the soul change for shadowdancer. I am still a bit let down that theres nothing with juice here for non casters in shadowdancer. Extra stats are good and all, but new abilities or new ways that abilities can be used are more fun imo.

[Nickodeamous]

. It'll be better once the monk rework eventually gets here

any details you know on this? Its been a rumor for a few years now.

[Nickodeamous]

I know it works with improved trip, and it's a pretty small aoe. it doesn't seem to work at all with whirlwind attack though.

agreed. this is what i saw as well. WWA proc needs added (or fixed)

[elvesunited]

Tested a few things:

Love the new GMoF core 4. It'll be better once the monk rework eventually gets here, but being able to have 2 out of 3 between light, dark, and void is really nice for opening up new combos.

Pretty happy with the caster / trap the soul change for shadowdancer. I am still a bit let down that theres nothing with juice here for non casters in shadowdancer. Extra stats are good and all, but new abilities or new ways that abilities can be used are more fun imo.

Has anyone been able to test if the Shadowdancer ability works with trap the soul effect weapons like Souleater?

[J1NG]

Has anyone been able to test if the Shadowdancer ability works with trap the soul effect weapons like Souleater?

You just reminded me of that. Will head in now and see if that can't be tested (whilst I'm still up and awake).

Will be testing Warlock Devour Soul at same time.

Be right back.

J1NG

:: edit ::

Hmmm, strange. Using Trap the Soul, where enemies save, they did not get this debuff. Did anyone else manage to get the debuff rolling on the target when your used a Trap the Soul?

:: edit again ::

Tried with Devour Soul from Warlock and also doesn't work. The PRR/MRR reduction doesn't take place, just like the effect for the Warlock version of Trap the Soul. May need to attempt Wizard version to see.

[droid327]

EA Core 4 healing effect is broken

With my Paladin in R1, its giving me ~20-30 health - when my EA aura ticks for ~500. In town, procs for ~70-80, cf Aura at ~1100

1d6+2 * 3.28 Hamp * 4.67 Spellpower = 84 avg, which is what I'm seeing - so I suspect its not getting the +1 per level and just giving a flat 1d6+2, which of course is complete garbage for a L32 ability

[Deathwing_The_Dragon]

You do not need to purchase the Isle of Dread to level up to Legendary

I asked this question to Steelstar, as usual no reply from him, so I ask you: What is so legendary about the legendary levels, considering there is no legendary class-specific feats, rehashed epic destinies and you selling back ilevel power you took it back last year? Why increase the level cap at all in the first place (this is another question none of your team has answered so far), if you are just giving more ED cores and commoner cr*p?

[Pandjed]

I asked this question to Steelstar, as usual no reply from him, so I ask you: What is so legendary about the legendary levels, considering there is no legendary class-specific feats, rehashed epic destinies and you selling back ilevel power you took it back last year? Why increase the level cap at all in the first place (this is another question none of your team has answered so far), if you are just giving more ED cores and commoner cr*p?

Some perspective:

We already have a single legendary level, as legendary (for player characters) starts with 30, we just don't get any XP to progress further from there so far. What do we get there? ED tier 5 and a scion feat. A moderate leap in power for most characters.
It's the same as with heroics. After getting level 20, you are a epic character, get some restrictions in terms of heroic content (like no reaper on any heroic quest) and two tiers of EDs.
Even if the new two levels don't feel as much, as we're already cozy and used to what we have right now, it doesn't change the fact that legendary levels start with 30 and we already got the jump off point there.

Now let's continue with the rather simplistic "selling power" back, which is actually needs a rather important ability to really understand: Perspective. "Power" is a really flexible thing, because in my POV, we're much stronger at cap as before the ED update and generally much stronger in the epic process as well. I admit, there are a few points where it feels weaker, but that's the exception, not the rule.
How can that be, if we got the decrease in item power and some numbers were lowered? Because they were lowered in other places as well, as with the quests and enemies. "A Small Problem" used to be really hard for a level 20 character, now a character with a similar build can get through it with much less trouble.
Big numbers are just that: Big numbers. They only get meaning with context. If IoD enemies would be immune to atatcks and spells made by level 29- enemies, had ten million hp for a yellow non-champion, would have an aura that does as much damage per tick as the fluid in LLob and had an attack, that has a base damage of 100k, then it won't matter at all if we would have the old items or the new ones. Both would be pathetically weak.
If you want the "power" back, then I'd said we already got it. If you want the big numbers back, then wait patiently until the game has reached a level cap of 42 or something.

Why level cap increase? Devs already said so, because they think it's better for the health of the game. Why they do feel so? That they didn't say, but as I have at least three brain cells, I'm able to make some thoughts about it, especially considering the current state of what gets developed and how the gamescape has become.
Like how clustered the endgame is with quests.
In addition that it keeps to become a problem to make new items, as if everything has the same power level, there is no need to farm new ones at some point, which really hurts the interest of well-invested players (since FW, no new items didn't hit my fancy, for example).
How the game doesn't do world-defining storylines anymore, as all quest packs needs to have a heroic counterpart (which makes sense, having the story twice, but imagine if there would be stories that expect the characters to be at least epic from the get-go, like MotU).
Or to keep the [paying] old-time players invested and satisfied, there needs to be a constant supply of new stuff they can grind off (as players that already grinded most PLs are secretely are all grind-addicted by that point), and open up some content upwards would free up more design space.

This game is a business, and while the selling point of their product is entertainment, there are ultimately only 2 options for the devs: To keep up creating and adding to the game so that the staff can continue to pay their bills or to shut the game down.

With the ED update, the devs convinced me that they put their bets on the longevity of the game. Otherwise, we would still have the old ****, would get a secondary system for legendary only, which more or less replaced the few things our heroic classes would provide to us (by adding dozens of new actives), as this would be much easier for short-term satisfication to squeeze out our last $ before abandoning the game altogether.

I don't ask anyone to blindly trust the devs, but I'd say that at least they should get the benefit of the doubt that they made their thoughts regarding that decision, even if it may be hard to understand or undesireable.

Btw, I still wish there weren't a level cap increase, but I'd rather roll with it but to complain about it like a teenager that realized that they're graduating from school today and tries to fight it.

[eightspoons]

I have to say, I'm not a massive fan of how the Shiradi Champion 4th core specifically requires taking Pin/Beguiling Charm in order to gain the bulk of it's benefit. None of the other cores have the limitation of a single destiny feat.

[Pandjed]

I have to say, I'm not a massive fan of how the Shiradi Champion 4th core specifically requires taking Pin/Beguiling Charm in order to gain the bulk of it's benefit. None of the other cores have the limitation of a single destiny feat.

Pin/Beguiling Charm is an enhancement of Shiradi, not a feat. Makes more sense than a feat-tie in (like in US) or a spell only 3 classes can learn (like in SD).

[dunklezhan]

Reincarnation
We are also considering doing this for Epic experience down the line. It would mean that Reincarnating mid-Epic life would let you get back to where you were in Epics without retreading old ground. Of course, an ETR would still burn that XP (since it wants to send you back to 20) but it'd make bailing mid-Epics much more forgiving since you're no longer wasting XP.

Please, yes.

[eightspoons]

Pin/Beguiling Charm is an epic strike of Shiradi, not a feat. Makes more sense than a feat-tie in (like in US) or a spell only 3 classes can learn (like in SD).

Feat/enhancement/whatever. It's just wordplay.

But, just to be a stickler, the Epic Strike in Shiradi is Fey Lights/Hunt's End; it would make somewhat more sense (to me) to attach the 4th core effect to those. Pin and Beguiling Charm and their upgrade are just optional shinies.

[Pandjed]

Feat/enhancement/whatever. It's just wordplay.

But, just to be a stickler, the Epic Strike in Shiradi is Fey Lights/Hunt's End; it would make somewhat more sense (to me) to attach the 4th core effect to those. Pin and Beguiling Charm and their upgrade are just optional shinies.

Whoops, edited my post to make it right.

And in this case, the difference between feat and enhancement is important and def not a wordplay, as they have a big difference in commitment/design space/character cost. Would be like saying an attack and a save ability are the same, because they both do damage.

[Dreppo]

Why is this limited to ranged? I have zero interest in adopting another attack style due to leveling up another Sentient Jewel. And 100 hitpoints is Legendary Filler. I'd love to have Legendary Precision (much better name) on an Assassin.

I agree with all of this. I think it would make sense to have Precision as a prereq, and apply additional benefits when Precision is toggled on. Ranged and some melee use Precision.

[Infiltraitor]

[*]Wild Force: While in Druid Wild Shape, you gain some of the aspects of the form you aren't in. While in wolf or winter wolf form, you gain bear form's +10% exceptional bonus to maximum hit points. While in bear or dire bear form, you gain wolf form's +10% movement speed.

Could someone confirm that Wild Force gives hit points and not Armor Class?

I really like this feat as written, however, this would be the first instance of exceptional hit points in game. It also make zero sense in context.

[droid327]

Feat/enhancement/whatever. It's just wordplay.

But, just to be a stickler, the Epic Strike in Shiradi is Fey Lights/Hunt's End; it would make somewhat more sense (to me) to attach the 4th core effect to those. Pin and Beguiling Charm and their upgrade are just optional shinies.

That'd be worse, because it'd force you to lock into Shiradi as your Epic Strike to use the Core 4. Which you probably will anyway, but there's no reason to take away your option to run with another destiny's Strike.

Plus, its not like Shiradi is full of useful stuff anyway. There's a lot of filler, and a lot of straight junk, that you have to take in order to unlock your T5s. Spending 2 points to pick up Pin is not really that big a deal, if it means you get a no-save AOE daze, which is pretty good tactical CC