Level 31 Feat Suggestion - Elemental Bypass

[Kayze]

Have you actually tried this on a FVS/Cleric in legendary content? It will not work on named mobs. Before you can kill them the immunity stripping drops and your mantle will heal them back to full.

Turn off your mantle? Also not every single FVS/Cleric is running DI mantle.

Here is where this goes - everyone who is playing r10 content as a damage dealing caster is using one of three classes.

There is your build diversity.

You know what's fun? Having more options!

A very quick search on youtube completely proves you wrong. I see R10 solo videos from caster artificers, spellsinger bards, clerics, and even the melee classes you said didn't exist (monks, swashbuckling bards, druid bears, paladin) over the past year, with a sizeable minority done in the past couple of months.

[Arjen]

e.


and even the melee classes you said didn't exist (monks, swashbuckling bards, druid bears, paladin) over the past year, with a sizeable minority done in the past couple of months.

You've got the wrong guy mate.

I don't even know what you're arguing for any more. Is it "be happy being less effective on certain classes because that's how the game works"?

The answer is real simple - people at cap who run hard content build to a meta which does not include classes that would otherwise be really fun to play. If our example of the Fire Cleric becoming as effective as a Fire Druid is somehow totally breaks the game then many apologies for asking to having a different type of fun than is currently allowed.

[Aelonwy]

Bring along a party member who can handle those immunities? Why are you so focused on the ability to deal with every obstacle in the game on one pure character?

Certain classes have the unique ability to bypass immunities, just like how only a limited number of classes can trap or heal from negative energy. That's how the classes are differentiated. If you refuse to use spells from other elements, then perhaps you should play a class that lets you break immunity.


Yes. This encourages party play or diversity of build options if that content must be played.

Okay you do NOT support parity between caster classes so if casters cannot have epic/legendary feats to beat the immunities of mobs how about we REMOVE the epic DR feats, and enhancements that give character alignment to weapons from melee/ranged? So? Melee/ranged would be forced... I mean heavily encouraged to feed a sentient weapon that breaks specific DR and could still switch weapons instantly whereas casters would have to change their entire build for a secondary playstyle. Casters still at a disadvantage but a little less so than melee/ranged which currently do have feats/enhancements supporting fighting mobs with DR.

There is no ONE melee class that gets to break silver or good DR, why should there be only certain caster classes that get to break certain elemental dmg immunity? A melee or ranged can just change weapons, a caster would have to change their entire build... can you not see the degree of disparity in that?

[Kayze]

I don't even know what you're arguing for any more. Is it "be happy being less effective on certain classes because that's how the game works"?

It's that different classes do different things more effectively than others.

Clerics, for example, heal a lot more effectively than sorcerers, who can only heal using scrolls. They have much better on-demand burst single target and aoe heals compared with druid heals. They have instant heals without the possibility of it being eaten by a wall compared with alchemists. Because of those advantages, they lose out on the ability to strip immunity.

[Arjen]

It's that different classes do different things more effectively than others.

Clerics, for example, heal a lot more effectively than sorcerers, who can only heal using scrolls. They have much better on-demand burst single target and aoe heals compared with druid heals. They have instant heals without the possibility of it being eaten by a wall compared with alchemists. Because of those advantages, they lose out on the ability to strip immunity.

You're grasping at straws here, my current Druid build is far better at healing due to the ability to stack vigor AND toss out huge single target/AOE heals while doing top tier damage. These are not cleric advantages, they are reasons not to run one because they can't keep up.

So I guess now it will be "nerf druids"?

[mr420247]

Luv the idea makes almost all casters / alts viable again

Perhaps they should add reapers/champs that heal from ranged and melee damage too into the game for real balance

See how all the nay sayers like that throw in some stamina bars too so all classes have to u know regulate there dps too

[Tilomere]

Remove immunity bypass from DDO, hyper specialized builds should stumble and fall when they hit something they aren't prepared for. It's called balance.

I always thought they needed to also add some stun immune champ mods to the game as well.

[Wizard1406]

Some builds not being able to do well against certain mobs would be fine if the game had enough population to always have group members or had functional hirelings/pets/summons, like many MMOs do.

But in DDO you often have to solo, which makes Castle Sentinels extremely unfair to casters without immunity bypass.

They heal from fire AND have like 95% immunity to all magic, even light, sonic etc on legendary. The only exception is untyped or physicial damage. The only spells that deal enough untyped for legendary higher difficulties are the ruins.

Not every caster spec has enough feat space for that (or enough SP to spam ruins), and if you are specced fire you probably have the talent that deals extra fire on ruin and so it heals the golems.

Melee is not an option because of the lack of MP, feats etc and fire additional damage from scion feat (it should be a toggle...) will heal more damage than the melee from a caster will do.

EA mantle also does fire (I think the mantle should be light only , DI already has fire).

You best bet to get this quest done is doing a lower difficulty and/or opening up LFM 20-30 since even lvl 20 melees will do more damage to golems with adamantine bypass weapon / augment.

[Arjen]

Remove immunity bypass from DDO, hyper specialized builds should stumble and fall when they hit something they aren't prepared for. It's called balance.

That's literally every damage dealing caster.

[droid327]

Instead of making the feat an immunity breaker...how about a feat like "You use your highest spellpower and lore instead of your [Choose Element] spellpower and lore"

In other words, make it possible to actually have an endgame-viable second element, then you wont need to just have immune breakers that defeat the purpose of even having immunities

[Arjen]

Instead of making the feat an immunity breaker...how about a feat like "You use your highest spellpower and lore instead of your [Choose Element] spellpower and lore"

In other words, make it possible to actually have an endgame-viable second element, then you wont need to just have immune breakers that defeat the purpose of even having immunities

Doesn't really help - SP and Lore is just a tiny part of the overall investment into a damage type (not to mention that many builds don't have alternate spells of equivalent power available - dragon breath, holy fireball, etc). In order to produce the requisite damage required you've got to go all in.

[Oxarhamar]

Kinda wish, Reaper play and epic levels had their own servers.
(reason) - when ever they do something new to the endgame
content, it somehow screws up the heroic content.

If Reapers and Epic was limited to specialty servers, it
would limit the damage.

Just my opinion

Yeah the game doesn’t have the population for a server each for heroic epic & reaper

Not unless they consolidated and did away with the others

Besides Reaper is a difficultly and Epic is a level after you’ve surpassed heroic

Epic as it is now is far better than the original Epic system where you stayed at 20

[boredGamer]

Was thinking about this more - one of the bad implementation details of immunity bypass is it’s 100%.

It should do something like 25% with ways to boost it up to say 75% with the tradeoff being other feats or action points taking away from your raw power. (Where 75% is like 5 feats and 10+ AP)

Then also you can just vary different classes or builds in terms of amount or ease of bypass if you think sorcs should have easier bypass than clerics (for whatever reason)

[Arjen]

. (Where 75% is like 5 feats and 10+ AP)

5 feats? Not sure it's worth the time to program something that no one would take.

Let's set the baseline as a Druid Spell that they get at level 17 for free.

[Aelonwy]

Remove immunity bypass from DDO, hyper specialized builds should stumble and fall when they hit something they aren't prepared for. It's called balance.

I always thought they needed to also add some stun immune champ mods to the game as well.

Fine. Add mobs that can ONLY be fought [well] with magic and your melee/ranged has to sheathe their weapon and fight with a UMDed wand or scrolls. Its called balance.

I think the discussion here is about parity between classes within an archetype. The archetype in question is caster and some casters currently have an inherent edge through Immunity Bypass... it is the same sort of edge that the entire archetypes of melee/ranged have through DR breaking feats/enhancements or merely switching weapons. But okay if you want more balance between archetypes lets please REMOVE the DR breaking feats and enhancements as well. Melee and Ranged would continue to have the advantage to switch weapons, which is still much easier, and more efficient than a caster switching spells (for which some must see a trainer, pay to change) also the caster may have to switch gear and build for particular mobs. OR... or the devs could add alternate feats or enhancements for the other caster classes to bypass immunities at various durations and cooldowns for some semblance of parity between casters. Hmmm I wonder which method of balance would take the least effort and would increase the enjoyment of the game to the widest range of players?

[boredGamer]

5 feats? Not sure it's worth the time to program something that no one would take.

Let's set the baseline as a Druid Spell that they get at level 17 for free.

Why even bother with immunities if the baseline is free immunity breaking ?

Fine 2 feats to get to 50 and 5 enhancements at 2 ap each to get you to 75. Tiefling one is 50 base instead of 100. I don’t know if I’m talking about a single element or many. It’s just a vague idea and would be much better to offer some sort of tradeoff for more or less immunity breaking .

[Arjen]

Why even bother with immunities if the baseline is free immunity breaking ?

Fine 2 feats to get to 50 and 5 enhancements at 2 ap each to get you to 75. Tiefling one is 50 base instead of 100. I don’t know if I’m talking about a single element or many. It’s just a vague idea and would be much better to offer some sort of tradeoff for more or less immunity breaking .

It is baseline for 3 caster classes, that's the issue I'd like to see addressed.

[boredGamer]

It is baseline for 3 caster classes, that's the issue I'd like to see addressed.

We all do, I'm just saying blanket immunity bypass is the wrong way to address it. Because again, what is the point?