Developer's - Can you please have a look at this (Master of The Dead Feat) broken

[Avatar29]

This has been posted before, over the years...

I have personally submitted a bug report, as have other's.

Is it possible to have a look at the Master of the Dead feat?
It states in the Description:
Your Chill Touch, Death Aura, Greater Death Aura, and Negative Energy Burst spells gain +10 to their maximum caster level. Grants +140 maximum Spell Points.

Currently, the Death Aura and Greater Death do not gain any caster levels to this feat - they are capped at 20. Considering this is an EPIC feat, it is pretty much useless, as it only increases the maximum caster level of the Negative energy spell...


Can this get a fix? or at least change the description to exclude DA and GDA?

would love to see this issue addressed, as it's been bugged for years, and many casters waste feats getting it, only to be disappointed afterwards.

[J1NG]

Technically, this Feat does actually work on them (Death Aura an Greater Death Aura), only that the duration of each spell is being increased rather than the level/damage dice once 20 has been reached.

If I remember right, this has been brought up before (U51 ED update if I remember right) and the last official answer was: They're aware of it, but have no clue when they'd go back over it.

Especially since it's more "not optimal" (it works) rather than an "actual" bug. So probably is falling by the wayside for a look in whilst there's so much more stuff that needs their attention "now" that is an "actual" bug in need of a fix.

J1NG

[Avatar29]

Technically, this Feat does actually work on them (Death Aura an Greater Death Aura), only that the duration of each spell is being increased rather than the level/damage dice once 20 has been reached.

If I remember right, this has been brought up before (U51 ED update if I remember right) and the last official answer was: They're aware of it, but have no clue when they'd go back over it.

Especially since it's more "not optimal" (it works) rather than an "actual" bug. So probably is falling by the wayside for a look in whilst there's so much more stuff that needs their attention "now" that is an "actual" bug in need of a fix.

J1NG

This is entirely false J1ng;

The Feat does absolutely NOT increase the duration of DA or GDA, I play PM almost every life, I have to use extend to get them to go over 2 mins, after picking up the feat, and leveling to 30, the DA and GDA still is the same as it was when I hit 20. It's a bug, and only partially works due to the NEB scaling maximum levels.

[Bjond]

This is entirely false J1ng

Well, not completely false! He's right about DDO Devs being aware of it. Now and then they do look at it and then make some comments. From what I recall, the code used to implement it is so ugly that they can't figure out how to fix it without completely rewriting it and perhaps breaking it in other ways on the way -- something about implementing it by creating an invisible copy of your char that follows you around and casts DA pulses.

I suppose we should think of it as summoning a DA hire, which is a rather frightening thought.

There are a lot of things about DA that don't work right beyond that feat, too. Not played my PM in a while, so some of these might not be correct, but from memory: it doesn't trigger Sinister Chill (nothing negative does, only cold iirc). It vanishes on intra-zone "zonings" like in Through the Mirror Darkly. It does not apply the "immunity break" feature when it hits undead.

I really REALY hate that it doesn't tick at full health, too. So, now it always takes 2~5s before it starts to heal you instead of 1s on average and all 3 sync-up -- you can't spread them out via casting for more even coverage. Hit. Delay (often too long due to lag). Bam, all 3 hit. And, it has no visual or auditory effect (easy to not know when it's on or not). All this was deliberate, but I still don't like any of it.

[J1NG]

This is entirely false J1ng;

The Feat does absolutely NOT increase the duration of DA or GDA, I play PM almost every life, I have to use extend to get them to go over 2 mins, after picking up the feat, and leveling to 30, the DA and GDA still is the same as it was when I hit 20. It's a bug, and only partially works due to the NEB scaling maximum levels.

I'm afraid you need to read up on what Caster Level and Max Caster Level is and what this Master of Dead Feat actually does.

The reason your duration doesn't increase, is because (most likely) you're not actually increasing your caster level any higher, only your Maximum Caster Level. Palemaster normally caps at 25, 20 base for a Level 20 Wizard, and 5 more at Level 30 from Epic Knowledge x5. A Palemaster normally does not gain any more increases at this point onwards unless if they use Arcane Augmentation IX (for +2 all Arcane Spells), or from something to that effect (Enchanting Death for example for +3 to Necro typed spells and effects).

Greater Death Aura: Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Necro) Duration = 24 base + (28 * 3) = 24 + 84 = 108s ; 1 minute 48s (before Extend)
This is because the Max Caster Level is now 35, made up of 20 base, 5 Epic Knowledge and 10 Master of the Dead Feat. So if you have the boosts to Caster Levels, you actually can boost it further along on duration as shown in this pic.



Death Aura: Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Necro) Duration = 24 base + (28 * 3) = 24 + 84 = 108s ; 1 minute 48s (before Extend)
This is the same as above, the Max Caster Level is now 35. And thus you can make the most of any extra Caster Level boosts that DO improve the duration. Again, shown in pic below.



Lesser Death Aura: Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Necro) BUT! = 24 base + (25 * 3) = 24 + 75 = 99s ; 1 minute 39s
And here, Lesser Death Aura only gets a Max Caster Level of 25 and thus even with any boosts (to 28 in my case here), you do not get any more duration. Pic below shows this.



These numbers were pulled from a Wizard 20 / Epic 10 Palemaster using a Pendant of Bottled Moonlight (which gives +3 Caster Levels to Necro spells, to which GDA, DA and LDA all are), and as we can see the duration increases for GDA and DA as it is supposed to. Whilst LDA without any further MCL boosts, remains tapped out at 25 even if I boost it further.

So if you can boost your Caster Level higher, you'll see more notceable improvement to the duration (it works), otherwise, you won't see anything as your situation most likely is.

If no one believes me, you can go do the actual testing yourself.

J1NG

[J1NG]

Well, not completely false! He's right about DDO Devs being aware of it. Now and then they do look at it and then make some comments. From what I recall, the code used to implement it is so ugly that they can't figure out how to fix it without completely rewriting it and perhaps breaking it in other ways on the way -- something about implementing it by creating an invisible copy of your char that follows you around and casts DA pulses.

Yeah, lets not give the Devs ideas. I like working stuff. Not stuff that seems like a good idea, gets implemented and then everyone does a Picard Face Palm.

I suppose we should think of it as summoning a DA hire, which is a rather frightening thought.

There are a lot of things about DA that don't work right beyond that feat, too. Not played my PM in a while, so some of these might not be correct, but from memory: it doesn't trigger Sinister Chill (nothing negative does, only cold iirc). It vanishes on intra-zone "zonings" like in Through the Mirror Darkly. It does not apply the "immunity break" feature when it hits undead.

The issues you've listed here are because all DA's were changed to "non-combat". Meaning it won't kill your Spell Absorption charges. It's also because of this, the Sinister Chill doesn't work, because it's not classed as an "attack" spell, even though it does damage. Again, as you've said, it's one of the workarounds that was introduced. Otherwise, you'll get even worse stuff happening potentially. The zoning issue was solved recently. Although not all instances I believe, but that's a different issue, using a DD no longer disables it at least now.

Note that Sinister Chill does proc on Negative effects, it works on Necrotic Ray. Likely others too, but not had time to test yet.

:: edit ::

Works with FoD, Dragon Breath (Shadow/Negative), Necrotic Bolt, Necrotic Blast - all these have been tested. But I can tell you that Power Word Kill doesn't work, so it looks like the spell or effect needs to have a portion of it that does Negative Damage at least to trigger Sinister Chill; like FoD. Unlike PWK where it's a instakill and no damage portion.

I really REALY hate that it doesn't tick at full health, too. So, now it always takes 2~5s before it starts to heal you instead of 1s on average and all 3 sync-up -- you can't spread them out via casting for more even coverage. Hit. Delay (often too long due to lag). Bam, all 3 hit. And, it has no visual or auditory effect (easy to not know when it's on or not). All this was deliberate, but I still don't like any of it.

Hmmm, I've not ran into this issue. Let me have a quick gander and give my findings in a moment.

:: edit ::

Hmmm, preliminary testing here suggests you can still spread the casting of GDA, DA and LDA out and effectively get healing every 1-1.5s between each one. How long ago did you test that?

J1NG

[J1NG]

Just so there's no ambiguity, and some are thinking I just showed that Lesser Death Aura has a lower MCL (Max Caster Level) in those first shots. Death Aura and Greater Death Aura don't have a MCL anyway so Master of the Dead does nothing.

Well, because I had time. I spent some time farming for a Dragonshard and then swapped the Feat: Master of Death out. So the Max Caster Level on the caster is no longer increasing for Greater Death Aura (GDA) or Death Aura (DA). So if I'm right, with the removal of the Max Caster Level for GDA and DA, we should no longer see any duration increases, and they should actually stay at the same 1 minute 39s, or 99s total given the Caster Level of 25 and the duration calculation for all the Death Auras.

Caster Level: Wizard 20, Epic 5 (from Epic Knowledge x5 at Level 30), Item 3 (Necklace) = 28 Caster Level
Max Caster Level: Wizard 20, Epic 5 (from Epic Knowledge x5 at Level 30) = 25 Max Caster Level
Death Aura duration calculation: 24s base + (3s * Caster Level)

Since Max Caster Level caps the Caster Level at 25, we get the following:

24s base + (25 Caster Level * 3s) = 24 + 75s = 99s

GDA at 99s (1 minute 39s) even though it is being cast at Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Item)


DA at 99s (1 minute 39s) even though it is being cast at Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Item)


And LDA at 99s (1 minute 39s) even though it is being cast at Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Item)


If we look back at my previous post in this thread, with Master of the Dead feat included, we can see that GDA and DA were appropriately having their duration increased when the Caster Level is being boosted further along with the increased Max Caster Level offered by the feat. So it "does" work to allow the boosting of the duration of the Death Auras (by extension of allowing a greater Max Caster Level), so the feat is not broken. Only issue is there's not a lot of ways to increase Caster Levels on Arcane Casters so in most cases the duration increase is not realised or noticed, which is really an issue somewhere else.

J1NG

[Avatar29]

Just so there's no ambiguity, and some are thinking I just showed that Lesser Death Aura has a lower MCL (Max Caster Level) in those first shots. Death Aura and Greater Death Aura don't have a MCL anyway so Master of the Dead does nothing.

Well, because I had time. I spent some time farming for a Dragonshard and then swapped the Feat: Master of Death out. So the Max Caster Level on the caster is no longer increasing for Greater Death Aura (GDA) or Death Aura (DA). So if I'm right, with the removal of the Max Caster Level for GDA and DA, we should no longer see any duration increases, and they should actually stay at the same 1 minute 39s, or 99s total given the Caster Level of 25 and the duration calculation for all the Death Auras.

Caster Level: Wizard 20, Epic 5 (from Epic Knowledge x5 at Level 30), Item 3 (Necklace) = 28 Caster Level
Max Caster Level: Wizard 20, Epic 5 (from Epic Knowledge x5 at Level 30) = 25 Max Caster Level
Death Aura duration calculation: 24s base + (3s * Caster Level)

Since Max Caster Level caps the Caster Level at 25, we get the following:

24s base + (25 Caster Level * 3s) = 24 + 75s = 99s

GDA at 99s (1 minute 39s) even though it is being cast at Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Item)





DA at 99s (1 minute 39s) even though it is being cast at Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Item)


And LDA at 99s (1 minute 39s) even though it is being cast at Caster Level 28 (20 Wizard + 5 Epic + 3 Item)


If we look back at my previous post in this thread, with Master of the Dead feat included, we can see that GDA and DA were appropriately having their duration increased when the Caster Level is being boosted further along with the increased Max Caster Level offered by the feat. So it "does" work to allow the boosting of the duration of the Death Auras (by extension of allowing a greater Max Caster Level), so the feat is not broken. Only issue is there's not a lot of ways to increase Caster Levels on Arcane Casters so in most cases the duration increase is not realised or noticed, which is really an issue somewhere else.

J1NG

J!ng, you're missing the point completely.... maybe you're right about the duration being increased by the MCL increase,

but the description of DA and GDA says that it does 1d8+1 PER CASTER LEVEL and 3d4+1 PER CASTER LEVEL of damage to the target.

IDGAF what the combat log states, THE FEAT DOES IN NO WAY , SHAPE, OR FORM INCREASE HOW MANY HPS YOU GET PER TICK.

that's the main issue. IDGAF about increasing the duration a few seconds, I give a S#!t about how much it heals me per tick because I run contnet on R8-R10 with my PM, and every single hp I get per second counts!

I think it is you who doesn't know the difference between MCL and CL...

you are right on one thing though, DA and GDA isn't gated by a MCL unlike LDA. So if I cast my DA or GDA at level 28 like in your SS, I should get 8 more levels of damage/healing from the auras... so that would be (1d8+1)x8 *average 36*, and (3d4+1)x8 * average 56* , so basically I should be getting an extra 92 hps every 3 seconds...

I've tested my build with and without the feat, the healing was the same.


THAT'S the issue!

[J1NG]

J!ng, you're missing the point completely.... maybe you're right about the duration being increased by the MCL increase,

but the description of DA and GDA says that it does 1d8+1 PER CASTER LEVEL and 3d4+1 PER CASTER LEVEL of damage to the target.

IDGAF what the combat log states, THE FEAT DOES IN NO WAY , SHAPE, OR FORM INCREASE HOW MANY HPS YOU GET PER TICK.

that's the main issue. IDGAF about increasing the duration a few seconds, I give a S#!t about how much it heals me per tick because I run contnet on R8-R10 with my PM, and every single hp I get per second counts!

I think it is you who doesn't know the difference between MCL and CL...

you are right on one thing though, DA and GDA isn't gated by a MCL unlike LDA. So if I cast my DA or GDA at level 28 like in your SS, I should get 8 more levels of damage/healing from the auras... so that would be (1d8+1)x8 *average 36*, and (3d4+1)x8 * average 56* , so basically I should be getting an extra 92 hps every 3 seconds...

I've tested my build with and without the feat, the healing was the same.


THAT'S the issue!

Reads Post Title: Feat is Broken.
Reads OP: Feat is broken, no MCL increase.
Reads my reply that Master of the Dead actually works and can be seen through duration increase, and that the issue is elsewhere and known.
Reads reply that I'm lying and there is no duration increase.
Reads my reply that shows Master of the Dead is actually increasing MCL, and that the issue is elsewhere.
Reads reply that claims I don't know what I'm on about and that the issue is something else - the same thing that I was talking about already in previous replies.

*pauses*

*shrugs*

*leaves thread*

J1NG

[K_9]

I would like to see some damage options for this feat, especially as chill touch is a bit underwhelming. I would suggest initially Necrotic Ray, but that may be a bit too strong. Perhaps replace with burning blood?