The real reason this game is dying.

[asinann]

In case any of you want to blame the devs or the like, the real reason this game has no population is because the PLAYERS are unfriendly to new and returning players. They'll drag you through quests, if you can find the quest they went to and they will then leave you behind because you don't know where to go.

And if they're really good, they then drop you from the group because you aren't with them.

[boredGamer]

In case any of you want to blame the devs or the like, the real reason this game has no population is because the PLAYERS are unfriendly to new and returning players. They'll drag you through quests, if you can find the quest they went to and they will then leave you behind because you don't know where to go.

And if they're really good, they then drop you from the group because you aren't with them.

The only time I’ve see vets ever not embrace a new player with open arms is when that new player makes a point of being an anchor as much as possible.

“Follow me”. Doesn’t follow.
“Where do I go ? Stop leaving me”. When the new player won’t follow you.
Won’t follow the map at all. Just look at the direction the 5 other dots went. Go that way.

Insisting on end rewards, won’t red door, I had a player CRUNCH CRAFTING SHARDS mid quest chain and wouldn’t keep questing, etc.

Yeah if you’re a huge pita people might treat you that way , but if you’re in any way trying to keep up everyone is super supportive.

[C-Dog]

Are you saying there are some people who both play this game and have no patience for new players?

<shocked>

I was with a group just today that, specifically, both waited and guided a new player, blind, to the quest we were in. Wasn't easy, they were more than a little confoozled, but we did it.


So... I guess what we're saying here is... it's the internet?

[Memnir]

This game has the same percentage of jerks who play it as any other game I've partaken of. No more, no less.
I'm sorry if you ran afoul of some of the jerks - it sucks when that happens. If you are having fun, then give it some time to suck less and to find the good groups again. If you weren't, then the jerks were just the icing on the I'm Leaving cake.

In short, I'm sorry you found some of the jerks. They suck.

[tsotate]

The players act the way that game systems incentivize them to act, so that's still on the devs.

[LittleLexi]

This is an unfortunate consequence of the game catering to a certain player demographic over the years(much of the casual playerbase has long since moved on). Even people who might consider themselves decent folks are– in DDOland– unlikely to forego the efficiency of their XP gains, in favour of helping a new player along. And simply carrying their soul stone to a shrine– or to the end of the quest so that they, too, can gain XP and or Reaper points– is not what I consider being particularly helpful or friendly.

Imagine this scenario... You're playing soccer in the park, when you notice a young kid look on from the sidelines with both eagerness and trepidation. So you invite them to join your match. But they are clearly less skilled, mobile, or physical – you name it. So you and your buddies just keep doing your own thing. Never passing the ball to the newcomer. Never slowing the game down so that the newbie can partake. Never setting it up so that they, too, can score and feel great. This is what it's like and has been like for many new or returning players in DDO. Does that really sound like a good time?

And I get it. People are free to prioritize their own time(and game time) however they wish. There is no obligation on the DDO vet decreeing that they must go out of their way to help a new player. But I ask you– surely in the above example of playing soccer in the park– you would not be so snobbish or self-seeking? I'd like to think most of you– in that scenario– would be much more inclusive. So why don't you do it in DDO? Does it really matter that you get that 105th past life this week and not next month? More so than spending some evenings, here and there, propping up a new player to a stage that they can truly enjoy and learn from? Witnessing someone discover this game we love and revel in it provides more joy than any quest/raid completion or item pull– I promise you. Some of these players may end up becoming long time guildies, friends and more, if given the chance. We just need to sacrifice a smidge of our time to make it happen.

Please don't get me wrong– there are still a bunch of really good and helpful people in the community(so don't lose hope if you're new!). And the devs have done a bit to atone for past mistakes in making DDO more accessible. But they can, and should, do more. We, as a community, should do more. DnD is more popular than ever. And the opportunity to attract and keep heaps of curious folks is ripe for the taking.

DDO is definitely not dying. Not if I can help it

[C-Dog]

The players act the way that game systems incentivize them to act...

Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of any game where a veteran player isn't slowed down by helping a new player. Chess, monopoly, baseball, tabletop D&D... some players are helpers by nature or by choice, some are self centered by nature or choice - that's all it comes down to.

That's not on anyone but the player.

[TFerguson]

In case any of you want to blame the devs or the like, the real reason this game has no population is because the PLAYERS are unfriendly to new and returning players. They'll drag you through quests, if you can find the quest they went to and they will then leave you behind because you don't know where to go.

And if they're really good, they then drop you from the group because you aren't with them.

You are not entitled to other people's time. We're not your daddy.

[rabidfox]

If someone says they're new/returning from a long break in party chat, I slow my roll, toss heals, help them find quests, etc. If a person doesn't say anything, I'll assume they're fine and will bounce around like normal.

[CSQ]

You are not entitled to other people's time. We're not your daddy.

Someone not being as good at the game and impacting efficiency can be frustrating, I get it, but be gracious to other people instead of being a jerk. If you really don't want to group with new players who don't know what they're doing, make it clear in your LFG or group with people you know. However, being a jerk to someone because they cost you a minute in a TR grind or whatever isn't good for the health of the game. Even if someone does something that makes you not want to group with them, there isn't license given to be a jerk about it, and there are a few people (who disproportionately impact the population by being more vocal than others) who are toxic about it.

There is a significant difference between a response like "I'm sorry, but this is a group running some content at high difficulty and it doesn't seem like you're ready for that yet" and "Oh my God, I can't believe someone would (insert newbie error here), learn to play." I've seen even worse, though fortunately it is extremely rare. Even just returning after a time away and being rusty, I've made some real noob mistakes a couple times, and while 90% of the time people have been gracious, I have certainly met a few people who got extremely testy about insignificant errors that might cost a few seconds. I saw a group yesterday where someone messed up a pull, and instead of being angry and saying "drop group you suck" they explained what to do and what not to do and I'm sure it will result in better experiences for both the player making the mistake and other players who won't have to endure that player making the same mistake because they don't know why what they're doing is undesirable.

If you don't want someone in your group, tell them that you want experienced players and move on, but don't act like they're some kind of leech or burden just because they might not play like you want them to and it messed with your schedule.

Some people need to learn basic empathy. We all have to deal with jerks in the real world where most of us don't have the authority to straighten them out, don't be that problem in a *video game*. No one wants to log into a game and get yelled at, and while if a player consistently causes problems (after being shown what to do or asked to leave), I understand getting frustrated, if you're so hair trigger about things that your first reaction is "You're infringing on my time for trying to play a MMO in a public group and you don't know every little detail of the game perfectly and you can't speedrun R10 blindfolded" then you need to dial things back.

[Shadospawn]

It’s a 16 year old game. We should feel pretty good about it still kicking and getting expansions.
Plenty of games don’t have that longevity, and it’s got nothing to do with the mean ole player base.

[Annex]

The best way to enjoy any cooperative game is to find a group of people who play regularly and share your preferences. In practical terms, you need to find a Guild, active during your play time, with a healthy membership that caters to less time invested players. Such Guilds definitely exist but you may need to try a few before finding a good fit. A mistake many people make is trying to go it alone, depending on whatever happens to come up on the Group Panel, or doggedly sticking to a dying Guild as it fades to black. If you inherit a dead Guild, anchor it with a storage character but get your favorite character(s) into a good Guild and make some friends. If your server has a chat channel for grouping, join it.

Public groups are Lord of the Flies. It's like that in all these games. You just never know what you're gonna get. Pick up groups will make you hate the entire human species. If you get a bad group, bow out gracefully and seek another.

Make the effort to find a good Guild. If you succeed, you may end up with friends for life.

[vryxnr]

While I do not agree with the statement "the game is dying" at this moment, I do agree that the problem you point out is an actual problem. We're not really "dying", but we're not really growing or thriving right now either imo. We're just kinda "here". New content is coming out, but the player base is... meh. I've seen it far too many times over the years and do in fact know several new players who have left for that exact reason (toxic players). With some of my friends who no longer play it was even worse: targeted harassing /tells and the like. Yeah yeah, "you can block them", but for them, trying to learn the game, it simply wasn't worth the trouble, and now they are gone.

I never understood those attitudes, especially when those same people complain about low populations. How are we going to have even a stable population if new blood gets driven away by elitism and toxicity? Old vets are not immortal, they eventually move on. Without new blood coming in and STAYING long enough to learn and improve and fall in love, this game will eventually die. I hope (and try by being kind and helpful to new people I find) this will not happen and we do grow, but it is a struggle when the few bad apples ruin the whole bunch. I know good people do exist, but it takes far more good people to outweigh the destruction that even just a few negative people cause... and right now I see more neutrals who don't care either way, which allows (sorry for re-using the same quote) the few bad apples to ruin the whole bunch.

[SheIsMiiiiiiinnnne]

U51 pretty much broke much of the endgame for the remaining average/non large guild players on G-land. LFMs for raid/medium reaper quests are much reduced. Haven't seen the promised hordes of new players loving U51.

[shmagmhar]

i switched over to playing more "pen and paper" playing with people online . and just busy with life i will have time to play again someday

[Deadlock]

In case any of you want to blame the devs or the like, the real reason this game has no population is because the PLAYERS are unfriendly to new and returning players. They'll drag you through quests, if you can find the quest they went to and they will then leave you behind because you don't know where to go.

And if they're really good, they then drop you from the group because you aren't with them.

If you think we have a toxic playerbase, you need to get out more.

The new players we bump into in our pugs on Ghallanda say the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

Although I did have an amusing interaction with an experienced player who thought everyone else in the group would be his healbots and that our sole purpose for being there was to indulge his stupidity

[jskinner937]

1.) This game is not dying. It may not be growing, but DDO following will not go anywhere until they are wormfood or the internet goes down. I have saw doom and gloom threads for a long time.

2.) Just because you joined a group in Saltmarsh that was IP, couldn't find the quest, got frustrated because no one would recall from a reaper quest and come guide you, never asked for helped, got impatient and rage quit. Do not blame the party you joined.

Most have no problems with noobs. I would say this game is way more friendly to noobs than most. The only noobs that I ever see that struggle in a PUG in DDO are the ones that never ask or basically ask to carry constantly (like sit at entrance and go AFK, not even try to learn, die to get a carry, etc.). I don't even ever kick this behavior, but its certainly frowned upon. The only thing that ever makes me kick and block is when someone releases on a reaper quest, when I know they knew better. If you need to leave reaper, ask leader to kick you and simply log out.

[Jomee]

In case any of you want to blame the devs or the like, the real reason this game has no population is

Maybe it's because named item drop rates are generally horrible and it frustrates new players to never pull good loot!!!

[Caarb]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of any game where a veteran player isn't slowed down by helping a new player. Chess, monopoly, baseball, tabletop D&D... some players are helpers by nature or by choice, some are self centered by nature or choice - that's all it comes down to.

That's not on anyone but the player.

Final Fantasy 14 has systems in place to encourage you to help new players (sprouts) such as increased rewards etc

[Theobane71]

They need a classic server that slow releases content on a scheduled basis. And drop the reincarnation garbage. Go back to the original vision of what this MMO was supposed to be.