Seeking Monk Advice

[Annex]

Back in 2020 I made some Monks, eventually settling on a Human, staff wielding Monk 18 / Rogue 2 for solo play, 32 Points. She made it to Level 20, playing on Normal Difficulty, without any close calls. Her damage was fairly decent. Please note, I have a Premium account. Her equipment came from Cannith Challenges and Cannith Crafting. She was using Light Unending from levels 13 to 20.

Upon reaching level 20 she picked up a Sworn Silver Quarterstaff from the Borderlands but remained in her Level 15 equipment. I do not currently have anything better for her. In Level 20 and 21 Normal Difficulty quests she remains quite sturdy but her damage is rather poor. I presume I did something wrong and would like advice on fixing that.

As best I can tell, she has the following Feats. A Feat in parenthesis indicates an option I considered but rejected. I no longer remember why.
1...Two Handed Fighting
1...Power Attack (Dodge)
2...Dodge (Mobility)
3...Precision
3...Cleave (Deflect Arrows)
4...Path of Harmonious Balance
6...Deflect Arrows (Adept of Forms)
7...Swords to Plowshares
9...Improved Two Handed Fighting
12..Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
?...Greater Two Handed Fighting
?...Great Cleave
?...Adept of Forms
21 Overwelming Critical

She has 12 points in Human, 30 points in Henshin Mystic, 8 points in Thief Acrobat, and 23 points in Vistani Knife Fighter. The latter was done to reach Mist Stalker IV.

Her skills are as follows but I forgot to record the last three levels. Obviously, I did my best to keep up Concentration, Disable Device, and Search. Open Lock and Spot received left over points.
Balance 4 - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 - - 1 - - - - - - -
Concentration - 3 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 - 2 1 1 1 1 1 - - -
Diable Device 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 - - -
Haggle 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hide 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jump 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Listen 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Move Silently 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Open Lock 4 - - - - - - - - - 8 - - 1 1 - 1 - - -
Search 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 - - -
Spot 4 - - 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 - - -
Swim 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tumble 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Use Magic Device 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heal 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 - - - -

When playing her, I pretty much use Fists of Light, Cleave, Great Cleave, and Drifting Lotus. She runs in Grandmaster of Flowers, Unyielding Sentinel (Divine Energy Resistance), and Primal Avatar (Rejuvenation Cocoon).

I was under the impression that with all the two handed fighting Feats, Swords to Plowshares, the Cleaves, and some Enhancement stuff she would hit like my Paladin but she is not even close. Did I miss something obvious that adds a whole lot more damage?

[Discpsycho]

She has 12 points in Human, 30 points in Henshin Mystic, 8 points in Thief Acrobat, and 23 points in Vistani Knife Fighter. The latter was done to reach Mist Stalker IV.

I was under the impression that with all the two handed fighting Feats, Swords to Plowshares, the Cleaves, and some Enhancement stuff she would hit like my Paladin but she is not even close. Did I miss something obvious that adds a whole lot more damage?

First, only a few things hit like Paladins circa level 20. Other builds can reach it with some tricky gearing, but your Monk will still be a little bit behind. A pure monk would have slightly better damage because of the capstone, which gives +1 multiplier while in cauldron of flame, but that's situational anyway.

Upon reaching level 20 she picked up a Sworn Silver Quarterstaff from the Borderlands but remained in her Level 15 equipment. I do not currently have anything better for her. In Level 20 and 21 Normal Difficulty quests she remains quite sturdy but her damage is rather poor. I presume I did something wrong and would like advice on fixing that.

At 2[W], Sworn Silver Quarterstaff isn't bad. I'd recommend the Stout Oak Walking Stick for a level 20, as it's got Felling the Oak (aka free CC) and a +1 crit multiplier (aka scaling damage).

As best I can tell, she has the following Feats. A Feat in parenthesis indicates an option I considered but rejected. I no longer remember why.
1...Two Handed Fighting
1...Power Attack (Dodge)
2...Dodge (Mobility)
3...Precision
3...Cleave (Deflect Arrows)
4...Path of Harmonious Balance
6...Deflect Arrows (Adept of Forms)
7...Swords to Plowshares
9...Improved Two Handed Fighting
12..Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
?...Greater Two Handed Fighting
?...Great Cleave
?...Adept of Forms
21 Overwelming Critical

Feats look okay. Personally I didn't bother with Cleave / Great Cleave on my last henshin life because Strikethrough covered AOE well enough. You also probably don't need Adept of Forms - with 18 Monk levels you should have gotten Adept for free no later than level 14, and Grandmaster for free at 20. As far as what you might replace them with, you're not missing anything damage-related, so I'm not really sure off the top of my head

If you're playing a Henshin, you usually want to swap to Path of Inevitable Dominion at 12, not for the damage so much as the easy button. Shadows Cannot Exist Without Light, the rightmost T5 Henshin ability, is a special attack that heals everyone in melee range for a flat amount. I haven't tried it since the doublestrike rework, but previously it procced multiple times per attack based on doublestrike and strikethrough. Between healing amp and strikethrough, this is your main survival tool.

She has 12 points in Human, 30 points in Henshin Mystic, 8 points in Thief Acrobat, and 23 points in Vistani Knife Fighter. The latter was done to reach Mist Stalker IV.

This one's the problem right here

Henshin: With 30 points, you're missing all of T5, which is the major source of lost damage, mostly in the form of your +1/+1 competence crit profile. The other two T5s are worth picking up as well but won't help quite as much.

Shintao: Each core adds 10 healing amp, and an 8-point investment lets you snag +20 PRR from Iron Skin. IMO that alone is better than Mist Walker IV and quite a bit cheaper

Human: This is a place for leftover points IMO. 12 seems a bit much when you have so many other options

Acrobat: Unless you have it from your epic destiny or VKF, you probably want haste boost. If you haven't taken Quick Strike, that's mandatory

Ninja Spy?: Depending on your gear, 11 points gets you some dodge and 25% incorporeality. If that's covered by gear don't bother, but that can help your survival

Falconry?: You haven't shared your stats, but most monks go Wis to damage (12 points Falconry) so they can be one-stat wonders. Many go all the way to T4 for the trance, but that turns you into a bit of a glass cannon, and I didn't do that until 29 on my most recent Henshin life

[Ulfo]

For weapon choice check this thread.

[Annex]

First, only a few things hit like Paladins circa level 20. Other builds can reach it with some tricky gearing, but your Monk will still be a little bit behind. A pure monk would have slightly better damage because of the capstone, which gives +1 multiplier while in cauldron of flame, but that's situational anyway.

Ah! Okay. My Dagger Rogues and Greatsword Paladin tear up everything, at least on lower difficulties, so this character feels weakish. She gets the job done, especially with Drifting Lotus, but more slowly.

My first two or three Monks were pure but I am so accustomed to finding traps that they felt really uncomfortable. They quickly went into retirement. Monk 18 / Rogue 2 was very much a compromise.

At 2[W], Sworn Silver Quarterstaff isn't bad. I'd recommend the Stout Oak Walking Stick for a level 20, as it's got Felling the Oak (aka free CC) and a +1 crit multiplier (aka scaling damage).

Ya know, I knew that but keep forgetting to get one. This is what happens when you play a couple months a year. Thank you. Lynnabel even made the Eveningstar Commendations account bound so Yay Lynnabel!

Feats look okay. Personally I didn't bother with Cleave / Great Cleave on my last henshin life because Strikethrough covered AOE well enough. You also probably don't need Adept of Forms - with 18 Monk levels you should have gotten Adept for free no later than level 14, and Grandmaster for free at 20. As far as what you might replace them with, you're not missing anything damage-related, so I'm not really sure off the top of my head

Adept of Forms may have been automatically granted. I cannot remember and tried to reconstruct what I was up to. The Cleaves help her play kinda like a Paladin. Light Attack--Cleave--Cleave--Drifting Lotus--Finish with Heal when it comes up.

If you're playing a Henshin, you usually want to swap to Path of Inevitable Dominion at 12, not for the damage so much as the easy button. Shadows Cannot Exist Without Light, the rightmost T5 Henshin ability, is a special attack that heals everyone in melee range for a flat amount. I haven't tried it since the doublestrike rework, but previously it procced multiple times per attack based on doublestrike and strikethrough. Between healing amp and strikethrough, this is your main survival tool.

Ah. Okay. The Light--Light--Light finisher does the exact same thing. She heals everyone for almost 200 points which feels pretty decent.

This one's the problem right here

Henshin: With 30 points, you're missing all of T5, which is the major source of lost damage, mostly in the form of your +1/+1 competence crit profile. The other two T5s are worth picking up as well but won't help quite as much.

Woops! 38 points. She has the Cores up to T5, Void Strike (which kinda sucks so I stopped using it), Henshin Staff Training, and Staff Specialization at Tier 5. I did not take Every Light Casts a Shadow because she went to Convent School and...never mind.

Shintao: Each core adds 10 healing amp, and an 8-point investment lets you snag +20 PRR from Iron Skin. IMO that alone is better than Mist Walker IV and quite a bit cheaper

Ah! Okay. That would significantly help. Immunity to level drain is just one of those really nice things I have grown accustomed to.

Human: This is a place for leftover points IMO. 12 seems a bit much when you have so many other options

I took the Skill Boost (for traps and stuff), Healing Amp, Don't Count Me Out, and +10% Strikethrough.

Acrobat: Unless you have it from your epic destiny or VKF, you probably want haste boost. If you haven't taken Quick Strike, that's mandatory

I took the Haste Boost in Vistani but can move it to Acrobat. That is another thing I am accustomed to having.

Ninja Spy?: Depending on your gear, 11 points gets you some dodge and 25% incorporeality. If that's covered by gear don't bother, but that can help your survival

At L21 her Dodge is 34% with a cap of 38%. She has Ghostly and Ethereal but L20 equipment would definitely improve that. So much to do.

Falconry?: You haven't shared your stats, but most monks go Wis to damage (12 points Falconry) so they can be one-stat wonders. Many go all the way to T4 for the trance, but that turns you into a bit of a glass cannon, and I didn't do that until 29 on my most recent Henshin life

Oh. My notes say:

Monk 18 Rogue 2 32 Points in Strength until Two Weapon Fighting feats done, then Wisdom?
Strength 15 Required for Two Weapon Fighting
Dextrity 13 Required for Precision
Constitution 14
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 14
Charisma 9

I think I put everything in Strength. At L21 she has a 31 Strength and 23 Wisdom. Unfortunately, I do not own Falconry.

Let me get that staff and shift around some Enhancements and see what happens. Thank you very much for the detailed response!

[Annex]

For weapon choice check this thread.

Thank you for that, Ulfo!

I can fairly easily make a Level 20 Staff of Nat Gan or Stout Oak Walking Stick.

Spear of the Mournlands and Staff of Shadow are out of reach. Did I mention she went to Convent School? Oh, never mind.

As an aside, in all these years I never found a Level 7 Elemental Bloom or Assassin's Kiss. Never. Dumb pyramid.

She does have a Level 26 Elemental Bloom and a Level 29 Morninglord's Quarterstaff waiting. The latter serves as her Sentient Weapon. The Nuns gave it to her...

[Annex]

My very serene lady picked up a Stout Oak Walking stick and moved some points around. She now runs Epic Hard on level without any issues. The mission is going well.

[gott_ist_tot]

Ah! Okay. My Dagger Rogues and Greatsword Paladin tear up everything, at least on lower difficulties, so this character feels weakish. She gets the job done, especially with Drifting Lotus, but more slowly.

My first two or three Monks were pure but I am so accustomed to finding traps that they felt really uncomfortable. They quickly went into retirement. Monk 18 / Rogue 2 was very much a compromise.

After playing both I'd say it's less of a compromise, and more of a necessity It's insane that with acrobat you get +15% q-staff attack speed at level 2, and with pure monk at 20. It feels so sluggish to play pure at low levels. I hope you took this enhancement

Adept of Forms may have been automatically granted. I cannot remember and tried to reconstruct what I was up to. The Cleaves help her play kinda like a Paladin. Light Attack--Cleave--Cleave--Drifting Lotus--Finish with Heal when it comes up.

You might want to check the quickstick build. I started with it, but then veered towards more monk and dark path instead of light. Anyway, it employs some good cleave attacks like whirlwind attack or acrobat tripping cleave, which are definitely better than cleave/greater cleave feats on a q-staff monk.

Ah. Okay. The Light--Light--Light finisher does the exact same thing. She heals everyone for almost 200 points which feels pretty decent.

For me, the dark side wins here. No prepping needed - meaning you can use it not only on regular intervals, but also as a panic button - backup for when GMoF heal is on cooldown (and starting at levvel 12). And the funny thing is, this ability is a light attack itself. So after using it 3 times you can pop the light finisher, too (and inversely, on a light monk, that T5 ability gives an option for dark strike).

Since there's significant advantages going a bit into the acrobat tree, some capitalize on it further and go full dex monk. 2 acrobat cores get you +dex to hit/damage, but that makes for a fighting monk, dropping the more arcane tricks of the trade. But the two cores are already there - minimum for +15% attack speed, alomost definitely for attack haste boost, and possibly quick strike (if not taken from henshin), maybe even the tripping cleave (it's cool AOE CC, the next one you get only in epics).


Add some fighter for mrr/prr/hp from stalwart, additional haste boosts from kensei and you're a real whirlwind with several good AOEs. On my weird 12/5/3 monk/acrobat/fighter build I split the points across 7 enhancement trees and ended up with 140-ish prr (mrr capped at 50, unfortunately). Maybe it's not much, but this was his second, undergeared life so I'm proud anyway. Oh, and when someone pointed out I should turn on the free epic defensive fighting feat his hp skyrocketed. And it stacks from hp fro stalwart. Also his 120 AC in mountain stance gave me thoughts maybe if I could get some gear this could be another worthwile defense layer... definitely for elites, maybe with some sacrifice for R1.

Although this life I'm trying wisdom. And I regret going pure so much, I'm considering taking rogue even though I'm already level 10.

[Annex]

After playing both I'd say it's less of a compromise, and more of a necessity It's insane that with acrobat you get +15% q-staff attack speed at level 2, and with pure monk at 20. It feels so sluggish to play pure at low levels. I hope you took this enhancement

Thank you for the advice and yes, I did take that Core (8 points total in Acrobat).

You might want to check the quickstick build. I started with it, but then veered towards more monk and dark path instead of light. Anyway, it employs some good cleave attacks like whirlwind attack or acrobat tripping cleave, which are definitely better than cleave/greater cleave feats on a q-staff monk.

I bookmarked the page for future reference, should I decide to completely rebuild my monk/rogue.

For me, the dark side wins here.

In my opinion, most players would reach the same conclusion. I only play good characters and use the light builder regularly so light is fine.

.....

Since I last posted in this thread, my Monk/Rogue reached Level 30, picked up a Morninglord's Quarterstaff, and solos Legendary Hard quests just fine despite very outdated equipment. Though relatively weak on offense, her surprisingly high defense and trap finding abilities make her a good character for me.