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  1. #1

    Default Why do devs hate sneaky types?

    Consumed by Shadows:
    From Sneak: Active attack. Enemy must make a Will save versus 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate or be beset by your shadow. Enemies affected have their Armor Class set to 0 for 5 seconds, and when they are hit, they take a stack of Vulnerability. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Note: This ability requires the character to have the Stealth feat active ("in stealth") to use it.

    vs

    Weird: The Weird spell is added to your spellbook as a level 9 spell if you are a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, Wizard, or Favored Soul, or a level 6 spell if you are an Artificer, Alchemist, Bard, or Warlock. Requires the ability to cast spells of those levels.
    Weird: A targeted foe and all nearby enemies are subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect, with a DC20 + highest of INT/WIS/CHA mod + Illusion spell bonuses to prevent the death.

    Nobody takes the former, almost every DC caster take the latter. Because the former is too weak, the latter is too strong.



    Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strike as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

    So, you need to expose yourself to danger to proc this one when sometimes JUST 1 HIT means death on R10. It even has an internal cooldown, you can't have multiple proc at the same time. It has so low uptime / cooldown ratio, too, when you consider its low power.

    Why do you hate sneaky types SO MUCH?
    Last edited by draven1; 05-01-2022 at 02:09 AM.
    “Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness.
    Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness.
    Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.”
    - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by draven1 View Post
    Consumed by Shadows:
    From Sneak: Active attack. Enemy must make a Will save versus 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate or be beset by your shadow. Enemies affected have their Armor Class set to 0 for 5 seconds, and when they are hit, they take a stack of Vulnerability. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Note: This ability requires the character to have the Stealth feat active ("in stealth") to use it.

    vs

    Weird: The Weird spell is added to your spellbook as a level 9 spell if you are a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, Wizard, or Favored Soul, or a level 6 spell if you are an Artificer, Alchemist, Bard, or Warlock. Requires the ability to cast spells of those levels.
    Weird: A targeted foe and all nearby enemies are subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect, with a DC20 + highest of INT/WIS/CHA mod + Illusion spell bonuses to prevent the death.

    Nobody takes the former, almost every DC caster take the latter. Because the former is too weak, the latter is too strong.



    Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strike as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

    So, you need to expose yourself to danger to proc this one when sometimes JUST 1 HIT means death on R10. It even has an internal cooldown, you can't have multiple proc at the same time. It has so low uptime / cooldown ratio, too, when you consider its low power.

    Why do you hate sneaky types SO MUCH?
    Probably because ..long .long time ago in a far far galaxy..... rogues managed to sneak out the deathstar plans, so now we in the crappy because of it, or maybe once upon a time in ancient china...somewhere rogues sneaked thru the hard earned bloated infested mobs without killing anything or anyone and completed the quest, since then Developers have a really hard one against any intelligent play.
    Last edited by Redtalktree; 05-01-2022 at 06:20 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draven1 View Post
    Consumed by Shadows:
    From Sneak: Active attack. Enemy must make a Will save versus 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate or be beset by your shadow. Enemies affected have their Armor Class set to 0 for 5 seconds, and when they are hit, they take a stack of Vulnerability. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Note: This ability requires the character to have the Stealth feat active ("in stealth") to use it.

    vs

    Weird: The Weird spell is added to your spellbook as a level 9 spell if you are a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, Wizard, or Favored Soul, or a level 6 spell if you are an Artificer, Alchemist, Bard, or Warlock. Requires the ability to cast spells of those levels.
    Weird: A targeted foe and all nearby enemies are subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect, with a DC20 + highest of INT/WIS/CHA mod + Illusion spell bonuses to prevent the death.

    Nobody takes the former, almost every DC caster take the latter. Because the former is too weak, the latter is too strong.



    Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strike as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

    So, you need to expose yourself to danger to proc this one when sometimes JUST 1 HIT means death on R10. It even has an internal cooldown, you can't have multiple proc at the same time. It has so low uptime / cooldown ratio, too, when you consider its low power.

    Why do you hate sneaky types SO MUCH?
    It's pure apathy. I've seen and experienced it as a rogue character for over a decade. This last update was the final straw for me. I'm not playing a rogue anymore. Just done. For DDO a rogue template is either all dps or some crazy shadow realm undead hybrid. Neither of which is true.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    It's pure apathy. I've seen and experienced it as a rogue character for over a decade. This last update was the final straw for me. I'm not playing a rogue anymore. Just done. For DDO a rogue template is either all dps or some crazy shadow realm undead hybrid. Neither of which is true.
    At one time when playing a Rogue, you used to be able to sneak thru a lot, or throw a dagger against a wall or break a pot and make the baddies go over and investigate while you continued sneaking. You also used to be able to pull 1 mob at a time and killed them. Then the aggro mechanic changed to where you do anything and the whole mob is down on you. No more sneaky Pete in DDO. Sorry Charlie. Roll a caster.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by draven1 View Post
    Consumed by Shadows:
    From Sneak: Active attack. Enemy must make a Will save versus 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate or be beset by your shadow. Enemies affected have their Armor Class set to 0 for 5 seconds, and when they are hit, they take a stack of Vulnerability. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Note: This ability requires the character to have the Stealth feat active ("in stealth") to use it.

    vs

    Weird: The Weird spell is added to your spellbook as a level 9 spell if you are a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, Wizard, or Favored Soul, or a level 6 spell if you are an Artificer, Alchemist, Bard, or Warlock. Requires the ability to cast spells of those levels.
    Weird: A targeted foe and all nearby enemies are subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect, with a DC20 + highest of INT/WIS/CHA mod + Illusion spell bonuses to prevent the death.

    Nobody takes the former, almost every DC caster take the latter. Because the former is too weak, the latter is too strong.



    Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strike as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

    So, you need to expose yourself to danger to proc this one when sometimes JUST 1 HIT means death on R10. It even has an internal cooldown, you can't have multiple proc at the same time. It has so low uptime / cooldown ratio, too, when you consider its low power.

    Why do you hate sneaky types SO MUCH?
    They removed a nice playmode in Dnd with no benefit for the game and
    They choose to remove some fun from the game so now is less fun.

    That's all
    In game in Cannith as
    Aborim Master (main toon) --- Nickallin (my tank)--- Jjnick (warlock 30) --- Nickpunick ()--- Nickruvido (my healer)--- Nickallinone (shuri build)
    guild: not Flagged ( ex guardiani di eberron, ex gods, ex kvp)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1963 View Post
    At one time when playing a Rogue, you used to be able to sneak thru a lot, or throw a dagger against a wall or break a pot and make the baddies go over and investigate while you continued sneaking. You also used to be able to pull 1 mob at a time and killed them. Then the aggro mechanic changed to where you do anything and the whole mob is down on you. No more sneaky Pete in DDO. Sorry Charlie. Roll a caster.
    You can still use noisemakers to good effect in some quests however the majority of new quests have kill requirements before you can move through checkpoints.

    A big improvement would be to allow doors and gates to be opened with stealth dropping momentarily in the process. Then a really sneaky player might get through the checkpoint without having to fight.

    Setting up a noisemaker on the opposite side of the room would definitely let you open door without interference and might let you recloak as well.

    Just editing to say: the old changes were because the devs thought sneaky players had an advantage at the time. However in the new reality of DDO it is AoE players that have an advantage and even a fast sneaky completion would be 5x slower than just blowing up every room instantly as you passed through - which is what happens now.

  7. #7
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    There was a time (anyone else remember Ghoste?) when creatively using Rogue abilities, and mixing them with some other game mechanics like certain spells, could get you through a lot of DDO content without much combat needed. Not none, for the most part - but a good degree of it. There was a changing of the Dev Guard at one point, and it seems that they unspokenly considered this to be contrary to the way they wanted the game to be played - and steadily eroded that creative gameplay element in new content and by changing existing skills, abilities, spells, and enemy AI as to make the playstyle impossible. That viewpoint has, seemingly - because again, this has never been acknowledged by the Devs - continued to present day, and will likely never go back.

    it's a genuine shame. I love Rogues in pen and paper - and I loved reading about the successes people were having in acting like legitimate sneaky-sneaks. It never struck me as easy mode; they had to work at it. Hard. Alas, sadly, now we've got Rogues in name only and that whole style of play is a relic of an earlier era of DDO. Ne'er to be seen again.
    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

    .60284.

  8. #8
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    Since I came back a few years ago stealth has been pretty well useless for anything apart from allowing you to assassinate and helping mobs to focus initial aggro on your hirelings so you can get in backstab damage.

    Even in quests where the game pretty much tells you it's supposed to be an option, like Claw of Vulkur, I can't get it to work consistently. Not on a full sneak and hide character wearing stealth gear, much less on a dabbler. Though perhaps I merely suck at playing stealthy. Since it's **** near useless for anything outside of combat these days I certainly don't get a lot of practice with it.

  9. #9

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    I still sneak a lot. But reaper was the deathblow for making it really fun.

    Carpone does not even bother dropping into sneak on his endgame assassin. What does that tell you?
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links. LONG LIVE STEALTH!
    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main) and some others typically parked at some level to help guildies and other players


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