The Summoner Challenge

[Chaoscheerio]

Good evening everyone!

Today I revisited a youtube review of DDO where I posted a bunch of helpful tips for newbies in the comments; one of them being "Summons are bad please don't try to make them work because I have"

Well, it got me thinking. I haven't actually fully tried out the summoner before. Not... completely anyway. So, I've been inspired by the flood of "Can you beat X game with Y restriction" youtube videos and here we are

My goal:
Reach level 30 on a fresh character(same account for pack ownership) dealing 100% of my damage in quests with SUMMONS

Now the point of this post isn't to discuss the challenge, but rather ask for help! I'm still in the "idea" phase of the challenge and I'm here to see what y'all think could work!

The main restrictions are going to be
1: I must play on at least Elite difficulty
2: I must be able to solo all quests I do. (I'm currently unsure if I'll let myself group. I play this game to be social so I'm iffy about this but I don't want to take the easy route)
3: I must play or attempt every single quest, max favour
4: Since I'll break the xp bank, I must bank xp til all quests (2 levels below elite streak etc etc) are complete. Which means I should be able to decently gear throughout the run
5: No gifts, handmedowns, etc.
6: I hate to say this but... no ship buffs. We've all grown accustomed to how handy they are and realistically every single player has them. BUT, I want to see from the very ground floor if I can make this build work. I'll use them if things get too dire.

WITH THAT
Which class I can be is severely limited as I'm going to want to be one of the few classes with a permanent follower:
Druid, Artificer, or Wizard.

I see about 4 possible build routes in front of me, before looking at any enhancements:

1: Pure Warforged Tank Artificer
-Features a beefy dog with equipment slots and the ability to become a walking juggernaught immune to damage.
2: Pure Druid Mama Bear
-Features no reliance on repair spells, good crowd control, and also a walking beefcake
3: Pure Wizard Necromama
-Features the widest array of buff spells, plenty of hidden skeleton buffs, and honestly is just cool as hekk
4: Artificer/Rogue
-Trap skills! Literally like, the only reason to do this. -2 levels on a class pet is -60hp. But... trap skills.
-my dumb butt apparently didn't realize artificer can do traps when I wrote this. This build was never on the table.

I think there's a clear contender for what my current favoured idea is, but then there's the races!
1: Shifter
-11AP Augment Summons, Cast while raging, good contender if druid
2: Warforged
-Crazy good racial tree. Super beefy. Given this is a solo player run, Improved Fortification is at least an option!
3: Human
-Extra feat, extra skill points, extra healing amp, bear with me here but AMAZING dragonmarks(Passage gives teleport and ddoor, Making gives Reconstruct, Finding gives Knock)
4: Halfling
-Heal dragonmark. and they're cute.
5: Gnome
-Illusion dragonmark, plus huge bonuses to illusion spells. Crowd control is going to be important in this run, so uh, yeah.
6!: Aasimar
-Lay on Hands, Protector Form, just generally a lot of survivability. Great choice for a druid build.
7: Dragonborn
-Memory of Flight. Why make my summons work when I can just skip the entire quest

Any other race I have not seen a reason to pick. Sorry you filthy drow lovers.

So yeah, that's where I'm at. I'm going to be looking at enhancements and saving a couple posts for updates on my enhancement ideas and what the final build is. I love y'all, be good to each other

[Chaoscheerio]

The run has begun. I have needed to make alterations based on a couple of issues that have come up immediately upon reaching Korthos

Namely that I can't open elite. So, I'll be renewing my VIP status just for the sake of Elite opens. The 10% xp bonus isn't going to matter much because I'm going to be hard capped every level past 2.

Instead of using this space for enhancement ideas - because I am a very impulsive person - I'm going to use it for updates about the run and what challenges I come cross. My build will be in the next post below

Update #1 after two play sessions:

I am currently level 3. I died on the first quest (Elite Storehouse's Secret) and ended up grinding slayers/solo quests to level up a bit.

The main things I've learned so far are two things:
1: This challenge is a lot harder than I expected, and also a lot more boring.
-It took me 28 minutes to finish elite Caged Beast at level 2. Thank God I don't use xp pots.
2: This challenge is frontloaded with nigh-impossible quests for my restrictions.
- Cannith Crystal is the main one. It's hard enough on elite with both dealing personal damage and having a hireling. Now that I'm level 3 I HAVE to attempt it and I'm not looking forward to it.
Redemption is also going to be challenging but at least I can heal Heyton.
Arachnophobia ended up being one of the hardest quests I've faced so far and it's a level 2 solo quest. The reasoning? My dogs find it impossible to NOT break things. I ended up with 5 sarcophagi broken and that was with pulling mobs into empty areas.

But, alas, I am a DDO veteran and I like to think I know how to play. If I didn't, I genuinely believe this challenge would be impossible. LESS GO

[Chaoscheerio]

The build I've decided to run with is in fact a Pure Druid that focuses on CC and survivability

Blossomrose, Sister of Pacifism
Level 20 Druid
Lawful Neutral Aasimar

Featuring the Star of the Show...

Winston, Level 20 Fighter
True Neutral... Wolf!
He's named after my old dog :3

Ability Scores
8 Strength
10 Dex
16 Con
12 Int
18 Wis
14 Cha
All level-ups into Wisdom

Skill Priority:
Heal > UMD(til 40) > Diplomacy > Concentration > Tumble(it's my favourite skill) > Haggle > Balance

Feats:
1: Augment Summoning(duh), Protector Bond
2: Wild Shape: Wolf
3: Empower Healing Spell
5: Wild Shape: Bear
6: Mental Toughness
7: Wild Shape: Winter Wolf
9: Quicken Spell
11: Wild Shape: Dire Bear
12: Toughness
15: Spell Focus: Enchantment
18: Improved Spell Focus: Enchantment
21: Bulwark of Defense(Epic)
22: Guardian Angel(Destiny)
24: Improved Augmented Summons(duh)(Epic)
25: Elusive Target(Destiny)
27: Epic Reputation(Epic)
28: Wind Through The Trees(Destiny)
30: Epic Damage Reduction(Epic), Scion of Elysium(duh)(Legendary)

[unbongwah]

My experience with summoning has been that pure melee druid was the least bad option for a pet / summoner build because:

1. A lot of your summoning buffs comes from spells rather than Enhancements; and those Enhancements are tier-1 or -2 so you don't have to go deep into their trees unlike, say, the Iron Defender line in Arcanotechnician. Brother Wolf, Shared Spirit, and possibly Harper Leadership are the only things you want to buy.
2. You get the summoning spells for free - or more like you're forced to keep them permanently slotted - so it's not like you need to "dilute" your build by wasting spell slots for summons.
3. If you're focused on melee DPS, you can afford to sacrifice two slots for the summoning buffs: Power Attack, Natural Fighting x3, Improved + Overwhelming Critical, and maybe a weapon proficiency feat. In particular, not being a caster DPS build means giving up your level 24 epic slot for Improved Augment Summoning is less of a sacrifice than losing, say, Burst of Glacial Wrath on a WIS druid.
4. Essence of the Shrike procs not only when you crit but also when your pet crits. Having two sources of temp SPs means you can basically keep spamming your spells and never worry about running out of juice.

So I'll be curious to see how your experience measures up.

[dennisck2]

I would also like to know the results of this. It sounds fun! Good luck.

[DirkTyrant]

My experience with summoning has been that pure melee druid was the least bad option for a pet / summoner build because:

1. A lot of your summoning buffs comes from spells rather than Enhancements; and those Enhancements are tier-1 or -2 so you don't have to go deep into their trees unlike, say, the Iron Defender line in Arcanotechnician. Brother Wolf, Shared Spirit, and possibly Harper Leadership are the only things you want to buy.
2. You get the summoning spells for free - or more like you're forced to keep them permanently slotted - so it's not like you need to "dilute" your build by wasting spell slots for summons.
3. If you're focused on melee DPS, you can afford to sacrifice two slots for the summoning buffs: Power Attack, Natural Fighting x3, Improved + Overwhelming Critical, and maybe a weapon proficiency feat. In particular, not being a caster DPS build means giving up your level 24 epic slot for Improved Augment Summoning is less of a sacrifice than losing, say, Burst of Glacial Wrath on a WIS druid.
4. Essence of the Shrike procs not only when you crit but also when your pet crits. Having two sources of temp SPs means you can basically keep spamming your spells and never worry about running out of juice.

So I'll be curious to see how your experience measures up.

Yeah.... as much as I like the Necromancer/skelly option - and they get hard as nails - you don't get to "customize" your pet, or gear them. I am wondering if that would be a big advantage in a Summoner build. Conversely, the summon options for druids aren't as good as wizards... I don't think... and what can Arti's summon - other than the pet? I do believe that the Herd of wolves is a powerful summons that shouldn't be overlooked.

[Discpsycho]

Yeah.... as much as I like the Necromancer/skelly option - and they get hard as nails - you don't get to "customize" your pet, or gear them.

I haven't tried a build with actual summons in a while, but I remember the main selling point of the skelly was that it was healed by Death Aura. If the OP absolutely doesn't want to kill things, being in melee range w/ Death Aura is a little risky, especially since the main advantage of melee range for wizards is EK damage, which is also out.

Conversely, the summon options for druids aren't as good as wizardst?

Not sure how I feel about this one. I can think of a few excellent summons distributed across all spell levels and classes - Orthon for Wiz, Earth and Water Eles for druid - but don't see a huge correlation otherwise. And especially in heroics, you're going to burn a lot of time and SP on summons if you can't heal them. On top of the buffs that Unbongwah mentioned, I'd think something like Spring's Resurgence (SH T4) would make a huge difference

[Ultinoob]

I guess you mean summonings, pets and hirelings.

As of right now, if this can be done, it is gonna take a very very long time. The pets, hirelings and summons simply do not do enough damage.
An example is a fully buffed wolf pet – and I mean fully buffed, taking everything you can to make the wolf do more damage and hit better – at level 30 does around 300 damage. If the mobs have 13000 hp it is gonna take a very very long time.

In low level heroics they can do some damage but not a lot still.

I really really recommend that you do some damage yourself also.

The druids pet wolf equipment is currently bugged. No cannith crafting items work. My best advice is to use named handwraps and turn them into collars for the wolf. If you have some named collars they work too. Augments on pets does not work.

With update 54 and the shared mantle from primal avatar you wolf, hirelings and summons should be able to do some more damage, but I doubt it is gonna be really good.

I am really interested in how this goes. Best of luck to you and please post back how it is going.

[PedXing20]

Perhaps this thread might help

Max Summoner Build

[Chaoscheerio]

My experience with summoning has been that pure melee druid was the least bad option for a pet / summoner build because:

1. A lot of your summoning buffs comes from spells rather than Enhancements; and those Enhancements are tier-1 or -2 so you don't have to go deep into their trees unlike, say, the Iron Defender line in Arcanotechnician. Brother Wolf, Shared Spirit, and possibly Harper Leadership are the only things you want to buy.
2. You get the summoning spells for free - or more like you're forced to keep them permanently slotted - so it's not like you need to "dilute" your build by wasting spell slots for summons.
3. If you're focused on melee DPS, you can afford to sacrifice two slots for the summoning buffs: Power Attack, Natural Fighting x3, Improved + Overwhelming Critical, and maybe a weapon proficiency feat. In particular, not being a caster DPS build means giving up your level 24 epic slot for Improved Augment Summoning is less of a sacrifice than losing, say, Burst of Glacial Wrath on a WIS druid.
4. Essence of the Shrike procs not only when you crit but also when your pet crits. Having two sources of temp SPs means you can basically keep spamming your spells and never worry about running out of juice.

So I'll be curious to see how your experience measures up.

Thanks for the advice! I never considered spell buffs and how they'd make the difference.

And yeah, for clarity, I intend to do absolutely 0 damage myself.

[unbongwah]

And yeah, for clarity, I intend to do absolutely 0 damage myself.

. . . good luck with that.

[Chaoscheerio]

. . . good luck with that.

Thank you! That's why it's called a challenge I'm really excited!

[Chaoscheerio]

I haven't tried a build with actual summons in a while, but I remember the main selling point of the skelly was that it was healed by Death Aura. If the OP absolutely doesn't want to kill things, being in melee range w/ Death Aura is a little risky, especially since the main advantage of melee range for wizards is EK damage, which is also out.



Not sure how I feel about this one. I can think of a few excellent summons distributed across all spell levels and classes - Orthon for Wiz, Earth and Water Eles for druid - but don't see a huge correlation otherwise. And especially in heroics, you're going to burn a lot of time and SP on summons if you can't heal them. On top of the buffs that Unbongwah mentioned, I'd think something like Spring's Resurgence (SH T4) would make a huge difference

Just to follow up about this:

Summons are more useful than you think. Especially on anything less than reaper, a lot of summons end up being well worth their SP cost in terms of the damage they deal out and the distraction they offer - which is a bonus of them that isn't talked about a lot. I'm at level 3 and so far the summons have pulled the most weight while my dog gets buffed up. They draw aggro (for some reason) away from my super intimidating puppy and let me heal him up. I use this tactic throughout normal play and you bet I'll be using it here.

Bearing in mind, I've been trying to make summons work since I started so here's a short list off the top of my head of useful summons throughout the heroic leveling experience:
Druid:
Level 1: Wolf - Acts as a beefier version of the arti/druid pets at extreme low levels. Way more survivability and damage.
Level 2: Black Widow - It has web. The end.
Level 5: Earth Elementals
-I have two Triple Earth Greensteel items on my main character. The Dense Stone Earth Elemental is the best heroic summon in the game, imo. Regular earth elementals do the same, just with less bulk and less DC.
Level 8: Air Elementals
-They're annoying as foes and super nice as allies
Level 9: Dryad
-It heals and does damage which is great utility. It's unfortunately a jack of all trades summon that does nothing exceptionally and is outclassed by epic summons. But otherwise, handy!
Non-Druid:
Bearded Devils - honourable mention because they're nowhere near as useful as they seem. I see these constantly while pugging and I'm sorry guys but, no. They do hardly any damage and are very hard to keep under control.
Hezrou: The best level 9 summon and the only one I'd really consider worth it on a non-challenge build. It has incredible bulk, decent DPS (for a summon) and ranged attacks.
Chaos Beholder: Its only drawbacks are that it has a 5 minute duration and is a random chance summon. Otherwise; it has CC, insta kills, and damage. What else do you need?
Mindflayer: From the same trinket as the beholder, but it packs wall of fire. I'm going to be farming about 10 of these trinkets on this build.
Epic Thaarak Hound: Honestly I've just always dreamed of owning an Epic Wolf Whistle

I know I missed some; but yeah. I'm a firm believer that summons are useful and if you build correctly; you can absolute make them work. That's why I started this challenge, and why I'm seeing it through. I hope this gives people a little bit of clarity and insight into how I'll rock this :3