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  1. #1
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Default Actually Iconic Characters

    Related to Steelstar's post in the Tabaxi Monk preview, and the fact that no Iconic Hero released yet has been either an appropriate race/class combo or actually iconic for their archtype, let's help out SSG with a list of characters that are either Iconic representations of a class/archtype, or best fit for the Iconic races released so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Hypothetical question that could help us figure some things out: What Race/Iconic is better for Handwrap Monk than this Iconic?
    I'll start with some easy ones:

    Rogue - The Grey Mouser (Fritz Lieber's Lahnkmar)
    Ranger(Archer) - Legolas (JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings)
    Barbarian - Conan (Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian)
    Fighter/Paladin (Knight) - Arthur, Lancelot, Bevidere, Gwain (English Mythohistory Camalot)
    Wizard - Ged Sparrowhawk (Ursula K. LeGuin's Tales of Earthsea)

  2. #2
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    Related to Steelstar's post in the Tabaxi Monk preview, and the fact that no Iconic Hero released yet has been either an appropriate race/class combo or actually iconic for their archtype, let's help out SSG with a list of characters that are either Iconic representations of a class/archtype, or best fit for the Iconic races released so far.

    I'll start with some easy ones:

    Rogue - The Grey Mouser (Fritz Lieber's Lahnkmar)
    Ranger(Archer) - Legolas (JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings)
    Barbarian - Conan (Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian)
    Fighter/Paladin (Knight) - Arthur, Lancelot, Bevidere, Gwain (English Mythohistory Camalot)
    Wizard - Ged Sparrowhawk (Ursula K. LeGuin's Tales of Earthsea)
    Paladin - Galahad...EASILY.
    Fallen Paladin - Lancelot.

    Arthur and Gawain are great examples of Fighters.

    Don't really have an opinion on Bedivere. Maybe some sort of thrower?
    Last edited by Arkat; 04-15-2022 at 07:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted.

  3. #3
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    On the other side of this issue is classes that would be better suited to the Iconics we do have than the ones they were assigned.

    Bladeforged - Suffers the most from not really having an ideal class, and the shift in meta (including introduction of Reaper and devaluing immunities) that have affected all Warforged. Needs a rework as badly as Shadar Kai did, but has a less clear direction to go with it.
    As is, Bladeforged has the most synergy with Sorc or Wiz as a full on EK. Wizard also give the option to trade Warforged racial penalties for undead penalties via Pale Master.

    Morninglord - All around pretty bad, an int race focused on Light nuking, when between 3 Int-caster classes there is a grand total of 1 Light spell (and no Alignment spells) the Con penalty on top is an extra slap in the face. Switching the INT bonus for WIS or CHA would be the easy answer, or at least have Core 1-3 add Nimbus, Searling Light, and Sunbolt to wizard spellbooks. The racial tree desperately needs a rework - why would you leave arcane fluidity on what is supposed to be an iconic cleric? Rejuvenation of Dawn is basically the only thing this Iconic has going for it.
    As is, it could be a decent wizard, but there's no reason to use it for that except to get the IPL. Something like 4CLR/16FVS running T4 DD and AoV for stacking light/alignment bonuses is probably the best you can do, and it still isn't very good. (And also doesn't fit the Iconic mold of single class characters)

    PDK - Clearly better as a Paladin of Helm (Vanguard) than a fighter, but at least the foundation is solid.

    Shadar Kai - Pretty good rogues after the rework, but the chain attacks preference SWF over TWF, which is a weird choice for an iconic rogue.

    Deep Gnome - The best combination available among Iconics. Complimentary stat bonus and racial tree. 9/10 because the iconic wizard isn't a gnome and the iconic gnome isn't a wizard.

    Scourge - Should have been the Monk Iconic. Add Ilmater to the FR diety list for unarmed as a favored weapon for flavor and multiclass options, and change the bonus for maces/clubs/morningstars to all blunt weapons. Done and done.

    Scoundrel - Not too bad, although Sorcerer and Warlock are both more iconic to Tieflings. The racial tree has more class specific bonuses than any other.

    Razorclaw - It's not clear why this was added when it was (With Feywild), where it was (starting in Sharn), as a handwrap focused barbarian (specialties with no synergy and no overlap). There are bite attack animations (gnolls, werewolves) that could have been paired to bite attack 'spells' from Druid as active abilities for Longtooth Shifters that would have been fine coupled with barbarian rage and wouldn't conflict with using two-handed weapons. Looking at what was done again, it seems likely they were working on Tabaxi, but couldn't finish in time, so they mocked up some new faces quick and slapped them on the human model. Barbarian was missing an Iconic, so they mashed them together and gave all shifters an existing ability (rage) with modified stats (simple copy+paste and a database edit, one would assume)
    They make fine barbarians, I guess, if you ignore all the handwrap foolishness that isn't nearly good enough to make up for how bad the class synergy is, in which case you're better off using the base Beasthide Shifter instead.

    Tabaxi - Once you've flushed ranger out of Scourge and handwraps out of shifter, you can go ahead and put both here. Fix tempest cores to work with handwraps. AP for 15% sneak speed that stacks with the version in Deepwood Stalker, fill out the tree with the handwrap bonuses from shifter that were clearly made for Tabaxi anyway.
    Last edited by Artos_Fabril; 04-16-2022 at 05:09 PM.

  4. #4
    Hero QuantumFX's Avatar
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    Iconic Bladeforged should have been a Favored Soul. If you're asking "Why?", well, hello and welcome to DDO.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • Epic and Legendary Mysterious ring upgrades, please.
    • Change the stack size of filigree in the shared bank to 50. The 5 stack makes the shared bank worthless for storing filigree in a human usable manner.
    • Fixing why I don't connect to the chat server for 5 minutes when I log into a game world.
    • Fixing the wonky Lightning Sphere and Tactical Det firing by converting them to use alchemist spell arcing.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.

  5. #5
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Iconic Bladeforged should have been a Favored Soul. If you're asking "Why?", well, hello and welcome to DDO.
    This makes sense in the context of what the Bladeforged are actually supposed to be, but doesn't match well to the bonuses and penalties given.

    An Iconic Bladeforged FVS should have - No Wis penalty, repair spells up to at least Reconstruct added to spell list, Repair added to class skills, and Heavy Armor Proficiency (for Adamantine Plating).

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